The Athletic Survey: Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

What evidence do you have he can't throw?

 

Please enlighten us on why you think he can't throw?

 

Because his team does not ask him to carry them with his arm.

 

In my opinion, volume should always be a big factor in the equation of how good someone is with their arm. You don’t have to be leading the league in pass attempts, but you also shouldn’t be at the bottom either.

 

A quarterback is far more likely to have better than average, turnover ratios and completion percentages and yards per 10 if they’re asked to throw less. 
 

Looking at attempts per game since both WB’s emerged as top QB’s we have:

 

since 2020 Allen averages 36 attempts per game. Since 2019 Lamar averages 28 attempts per game. 
 

8 attempt per game advantage for Allen is not insignificant in my opinion. 
 

And I believe Lamar only averages 3 more rushes per game over same time period so Allen has an overall advantage of 5 more attempts per game combined rushing and passing. Nobody is asked to do more for their team than Allen as we know.

[TBBills Fan]

I'd love it if we had Lamar as our RB

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Airseven said:

Jackson deserves to be placed higher in the silly "rankings" these days, but I'd still take Allen over Jackson for my team right now. That being said, I'd also take Stroud and Love over Allen. It's complicated. 

I can see the argument for Stroud, even if it’s just the contract end of it.  Love?  Now THAT is the most overrated QB/possibly player in the entire league.   The Packers are going to regret that contract real quick.  Come back at the end of the year and quote me as being dead wrong, but that guy is no where near an elite QB as it stands. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

16 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I can see the argument for Stroud, even if it’s just the contract end of it.  Love?  Now THAT is the most overrated QB/possibly player in the entire league.   The Packers are going to regret that contract real quick.  Come back at the end of the year and quote me as being dead wrong, but that guy is no where near an elite QB as it stands. 

i’m not sure. even if it turns out Love is not an elite quarterback the Packers  give me 49er vibes where that team is just gonna be really good all around.
 

Maybe Love is a system quarterback but as long as he plays well nobody will care.

 

He had a very up-and-down year last year, but it was mostly up and it was up when it counted.

[Doc Brown]

28 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I can see the argument for Stroud, even if it’s just the contract end of it.  Love?  Now THAT is the most overrated QB/possibly player in the entire league.   The Packers are going to regret that contract real quick.  Come back at the end of the year and quote me as being dead wrong, but that guy is no where near an elite QB as it stands. 

He threw for 254.9ypg, 21 TD's, 3 INT's and had a 112.5 passer rating his last 9 games.  Those are incredible numbers.  He was pry the safest extension given this off-season.

[The Wiz]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:57 PM, GoBills808 said:

it's the opposite imo

 

lamar is properly rated, allen is underrated

I would say differently.  Allen is rated and Lamar is overrated.  How does a guy that statistically is above average win the MVP?

 

Both have been really good but I'd say that Lamar has been given more credit for his regular season stats than any other QB has because of the teams standing.

 

#1 seed both times he won MVP.  I will give him, rooke year was a very good year for him.  But last year was basically Derek Carr level stats (passing) on a very good team that got the #1 seed.

 

 

Edited August 30 by The Wiz

[dma0034]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

 

That is crazy! Lamar's MVP last year was thanks to his Defense. Comparing their best years. Allen's 20,21 and 22 are better than both of Lamar's MVP years. I've also said this once and I'll say it again. Bills defense is good because of Allen. Ravens defense is just plain good. 


Howver; this Joe Burrow is elite conversation needs to be opened. Jake Browning played pretty well last year. Burrow has had an elite #1 WR and elite #2 WR with a good defense (amazing DC) except his rookie year. I'll give you accuracy but nothing else really screams elite about him imo. I don't think the Bengals win because of Burrow. I think they win because he's a good QB with elite WRS and a good defense that keeps Offenses guessing

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

He threw for 254.9ypg, 21 TD's, 3 INT's and had a 112.5 passer rating his last 9 games.  Those are incredible numbers.  He was pry the safest extension given this off-season.

Have we not learned to not judge a QB for half a season of production yet? I may be wrong, but I see him as someone who hopes to be as good as Dak.

[Scott7975]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:46 AM, JP51 said:

I think the biggest question after this comparison is how does Jackson win 2 MVPs and Allen none? I will never get that. Edge in yards 26k to 21k.... thats almost a 20% difference and more available/durable with very similar results in the playoffs... and yet the writer of the article is baffled why people think Josh is better.... thats like say geez, I feel in the pool and I just dont have any idea why my clothes are wet... smh

 

Jackson getting it last year was a joke.  I think he earned his first one though.  Its all about getting the 1 seed. That was proven last year if it wasnt before.

[Captain Hindsight]

5 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I can see the argument for Stroud, even if it’s just the contract end of it.  Love?  Now THAT is the most overrated QB/possibly player in the entire league.   The Packers are going to regret that contract real quick.  Come back at the end of the year and quote me as being dead wrong, but that guy is no where near an elite QB as it stands. 

I absolutely love Jordan Love. He is incredible and is going to be winning division titles more often than not

 

Ill be back at the end of the year 

[Matt_In_NH]

I don’t get the argument for Jackson over Allen. 

[Scott7975]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They are 58-19 in his starts and have a losing record when his backups play. They have had a very mid group of offensive weapons around him the majority of his career. Definitely needs to prove it in the playoffs but he’s really good.

 

and besides mahomes (insane but understandable), Jackson is the most hated on qb on this board. 

Because he is a mediocre passer.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He threw for 254.9ypg, 21 TD's, 3 INT's and had a 112.5 passer rating his last 9 games.  Those are incredible numbers.  He was pry the safest extension given this off-season.

 

What were the quality of the teams/defense he faced those last 9 games?  I really dont know but that stuff matters.  Im not saying anything about Love but he had one season. I wouldnt call that a safe extension after just one season of play.

[dma0034]

19 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I absolutely love Jordan Love. He is incredible and is going to be winning division titles more often than not

 

Ill be back at the end of the year 

 

 

I believe in Jordan Love. There are two things though and make me take QBs before him in Fantasy (I know Apples and Oranges but hear me out). 

Last year their Passing numbers didn't line up with their TDs produced. What I mean by that is this. The Packers were the 11th best Offense last year and had good rushing and passing attacks but neither elite (I think both were in the 10-12 range). The Packers scored the 2nd most passing TDs last year and the 20th most Rushing TDs. They averaged 1.9 Passing and .7 Rushing. That number should be closer to 1.6 passing and 1 Rushing in normal scoring based on their offensive outputs but the Packers went pass happy in the red zone. If that regresses to the norm Jordan Love may end up with 25-26 TDs vs the 32 he got last year.

 

Side note: the 2023 Packers have weird wins and losses. Losses to Falcons, Raiders, Vikings, Giants and wins against the Rams and then back to back wins over the Lions and Chiefs. 

[Doc Brown]

20 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

What were the quality of the teams/defense he faced those last 9 games?  I really dont know but that stuff matters.  Im not saying anything about Love but he had one season. I wouldnt call that a safe extension after just one season of play.

Just eyeballing their schedule the second half of the year he faced better defenses than the first.  Allen had only one season of elite play too.  You just can't wait on a QB contract when you know you have your guy.

[DCofNC]

30 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Just eyeballing their schedule the second half of the year he faced better defenses than the first.  Allen had only one season of elite play too.  You just can't wait on a QB contract when you know you have your guy.

Allen had an ELITE SEASON, not a nice finish to one, there’s a big difference.  Remember everyone crowing Baker the greatest thing ever after his rookie year? Winston? Etc, so many guys start out pretty well and then the league has tape, Love has so many bad tendencies, his going to have a very rough year this year IMO.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Allen had an ELITE SEASON, not a nice finish to one, there’s a big difference.  Remember everyone crowing Baker the greatest thing ever after his rookie year? Winston? Etc, so many guys start out pretty well and then the league has tape, Love has so many bad tendencies, his going to have a very rough year this year IMO.

Baker was a small rookie with a spec of the athletic ability that Love has.  Love is a one year starter but he's also been in the system and the NFL for five years now.  I get it with sample size but he was the best QB in the league the second half of the season including dismantling the Cowboys in the Wild Card round.  He did all that with pedestrian weapons IMO.  I trust the Packers when it comes to QB's.