Former Vikings safety Lewis Cine pivots from Jets, will sign to Bills practice squad

[Trogdor]

23 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I mean he hasn’t done much clearly but if there are two people to get a DB up to their potential, McDermott and Babich are those guys. 
 

I always see this, but what is the actual track record here? Poyer and Hyde were already good players, Tre obviously had a hell of a run, but Elam busting is rough. Hamlin never really came along, Rapp was awful last year, Benford was a god send find, and Douglas was already a stud. Honestly if we can keep fleecing GB for their DBs that would be great lol. 

[Watching since 1964]

My apologies if posted already… 

 

Matthew Coller, former WGR550 staffer, who covers the Vikings, spoke with Schopp about Cine in depth. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/schopp-and-bulldog/id1142031491?i=1000667202515 

[Cash]

4 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I always see this, but what is the actual track record here? Poyer and Hyde were already good players, Tre obviously had a hell of a run, but Elam busting is rough. Hamlin never really came along, Rapp was awful last year, Benford was a god send find, and Douglas was already a stud. Honestly if we can keep fleecing GB for their DBs that would be great lol. 

 

• Hyde: Very promising DB in GB, but didn't have a true position.  Played some outside CB, some nickel, some safety.  Signed for 5 years/$30 million - decent money but probably about average or a little lower for safeties at the time.  Made the jump to Pro Bowler and All-Pro with us.
• Poyer: Less known than Hyde when we signed him.  Like Hyde, was drafted as a CB initially.  Signed for 4 years/$13 million - that's extremely low-end money for a starting safety at the time.  Made a huge leap with us, also to Pro Bowl and All-Pro.
• Tre White: Highly regarded college CB, 1st round pick.  Serious pedigree but CBs picked at #27 overall aren't expected to make All-Pro, and White did twice.  Maybe this was more about talent scouting than development, but IMO it's probably a mix of both.
• Taron Johnson: 4th round pick.  Has been a plus starter at nickel since his rookie year.  Second team All-Pro last year.
• Levi Wallace: UDFA.  Moved into the starting lineup as a rookie, gave us 3.5 years as a solid starter.
• Dane Jackson: 7th round pick.  Started 28 games in 4 years and was a solid backup in the rest of the games.
• Christian Benford: 6th round pick.  "God send find."  Maybe.  Or maybe there's a trend here?  I say there's a trend.  Anyway, started 5 games as a rookie and won the full-time starting job in year 2.  Expected to have another great year as a full-time starter this year.

You are correct that there are some misses as well - Elam certainly counts even if he goes on to have a good career (which I personally think he will).  Drafting a CB in the first round, you'd hope to have gotten more out of him entering year 3 than we've actually gotten.  But even so: Hamlin and Cam Lewis are fine depth players, which I think is still a plus when you consider they were a 6th round pick and a UDFA.  Ja'Marcus Ingram looks like at least another fine depth player, and that's a win for a UDFA.  Siran Neal wasn't great, but the few times he had to play due to injury, he didn't get us killed, and that's at least par for a 5th-round pick.

 

I don't know other team's rosters the way I know the Bills' roster, but I'm confident that the above is one of the better NFL resumes in terms of finding and developing young talent in the secondary.  They don't need to be 100% hits to still be the best in the league, and I think McD and staff are either the best or right up there with a few select others. 

 

I'm hoping that keeps up this year as well, because on paper our safeties look pretty rough.  I would argue that to date, McD's 2 biggest successes are Hyde and Poyer.  But there haven't been other big hits at safety yet.  I imagine part of the reason is that Hyde and Poyer almost never came off the field, so the in-game developmental opportunities weren't there (except for 2022, when Hyde got hurt and Hamlin was an okay starter until he died).  Rapp is old enough that it's hard for me to think he'll make a jump at this point in his career, but stranger things have happened.  Mike Edwards is a year removed from where Hyde & Poyer were when they signed with us - maybe there's a chance he makes a jump?  Rapp [EDIT: I meant Cole Bishop] has high draft pedigree, and I'm expecting him to be a solid starter for multiple years, but given his injury, this may not be one of those years.  It's also not too late for Hamlin to make a jump to plus starter or better, although I'm just happy he's still around at this point.  And then of course, there's Cine.  I'm certainly not counting on getting anything out of him, but I'm confident that our coaching staff has about the best chance of any in the league.

 

Edited August 30 by Cash

[Brand J]

22 minutes ago, Watching since 1964 said:

My apologies if posted already… 

 

Matthew Coller, former WGR550 staffer, who covers the Vikings, spoke with Schopp about Cine in depth. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/schopp-and-bulldog/id1142031491?i=1000667202515 

Pretty damning summation of Cine. Sounds like 100% of his issues are above the shoulders and Coller doesn’t believe he’ll ever “get it.”

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Pretty damning summation of Cine. Sounds like 100% of his issues are above the shoulders and Coller doesn’t believe he’ll ever “get it.”

 

I'm assuming he said Cine was too aggressive attacking upfield toward the LOS and that tendency created issues with his positioning and angles?

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I'm assuming he said Cine was too aggressive attacking upfield toward the LOS and that tendency created issues with his positioning and angles?

Quite the opposite. He said Cine wasn’t aggressive at all, didn’t trust what he was seeing so he was always a step slow. Said he runs a 4.38, but plays like a 5.0. And then has tackling issues and when pressed about it in the locker room, responded with “the guy made a good play, there was nothing I could do.” Coller painted him as a player who lacks instincts and understanding of the position, that what we saw at Georgia on a loaded defense wasn’t at all a precursor of what he could be in the NFL. Basically a completely different player than an MVP and Thorpe Award semifinalist on the NFL level.

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Quite the opposite. He said Cine wasn’t aggressive at all, didn’t trust what he was seeing so he was always a step slow. Said he runs a 4.38, but plays like a 5.0. And then has tackling issues and when pressed about it in the locker room, responded with “the guy made a good play, there was nothing I could do.” Coller painted him as a player who lacks instincts and understanding of the position, that what we saw at Georgia on a loaded defense wasn’t at all a precursor of what he could be in the NFL. Basically a completely different player than an MVP and Thorpe Award semifinalist on the NFL level.

 

Wowzers....

That is soooo different from what we've actually seen from this kid in his time on the field that I am tempted to question the source before the player.

I wonder if maybe that leg injury sapped his aggressiveness and changed the kind of player he is/was?

 

[Brand J]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Wowzers....

That is soooo different from what we've actually seen from this kid in his time on the field that I am tempted to question the source before the player.

I wonder if maybe that leg injury sapped his aggressiveness and changed the kind of player he is/was?

 

He also said that Bills fans would want to cling onto the injury as an excuse for his play, but said prior to it happening he was already in the doghouse and losing the position to guys he shouldn’t have been. Coller said the angles Cine takes on tackles seemed to him that he didn’t really want to hit, so you may be on to something if that started after the injury. He said Cine will continue to get looks from other teams (implying he’s already a future Bills cut), but that he doesn’t think he has what it takes to play at this level.
 

Safety by all accounts is an extremely complex position in McD’s defense so if what Coller is saying is 100% accurate, then it’s possible Cine gets released off the practice squad during the season to make way for another player. Let’s all hope his release from the Vikings woke something up in him and that his former position coach can help him understand what he hasn’t been getting thus far. 

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, Brand J said:

He also said that Bills fans would want to cling onto the injury as an excuse for his play, but said prior to it happening he was already in the doghouse and losing the position to guys he shouldn’t have been. Coller said the angles Cine takes on tackles seemed to him that he didn’t really want to hit, so you may be on to something if that started after the injury. He said Cine will continue to get looks from other teams (implying he’s already a future Bills cut), but that he doesn’t think he has what it takes to play at this level.
 

Safety by all accounts is an extremely complex position in McD’s defense so if what Coller is saying is 100% accurate, then it’s possible Cine gets released off the practice squad during the season to make way for another player. Let’s all hope his release from the Vikings woke something up in him and that his former position coach can help him understand what he hasn’t been getting thus far. 

 

Considering the Bills' DB coach is Cine's college coach, I am confident they understand his strengths and weaknesses better than anyone.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

The guy has played what 10 games total in his career? Awfully in depth scouting report for a guy who hasn't had a chance to actually develop with injuries and what not

 

"the guy made a good play, there was nothing I could do" 

 

That quote is pretty brutal he probably lost the fan base and media after saying this. Likely just needs a fresh and more importantly healthy start

 

McDermott is pretty good at developing defensive backs, he got Taylor rapp to be a starting safety and he was on his way out of the NFL 

 

 

[Roundybout]

3 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I always see this, but what is the actual track record here? Poyer and Hyde were already good players, Tre obviously had a hell of a run, but Elam busting is rough. Hamlin never really came along, Rapp was awful last year, Benford was a god send find, and Douglas was already a stud. Honestly if we can keep fleecing GB for their DBs that would be great lol. 

Levi Wallace, Siran Neal, Cam Lewis were all serviceable. 

[Simon]

35 minutes ago, Brand J said:

He also said that Bills fans would want to cling onto the injury as an excuse for his play, but said prior to it happening he was already in the doghouse and losing the position to guys he shouldn’t have been. Coller said the angles Cine takes on tackles seemed to him that he didn’t really want to hit, so you may be on to something if that started after the injury. He said Cine will continue to get looks from other teams (implying he’s already a future Bills cut), but that he doesn’t think he has what it takes to play at this level.

 

That's so bizarre that I also wonder if the Vikings were putting some smoke out there in hopes that nobody would claim him and they could sign him to their practice squad. 

Or maybe he knew he was never going to get a chance there behind established starters, wanted out and was doing some half-stepping.

🤷‍♂️

[Bruffalo]

1 hour ago, Watching since 1964 said:

My apologies if posted already… 

 

Matthew Coller, former WGR550 staffer, who covers the Vikings, spoke with Schopp about Cine in depth. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/schopp-and-bulldog/id1142031491?i=1000667202515 

I'm not going to attack the source here, because he be could correct, but I'm just gonna say that it is very much a "Mike Schopp" move to have on a guest to just absolutely crap on a Bills move without any push back whatsoever. 

 

And I say that mostly enjoying the afternoon show. 

Edited August 30 by Bruffalo

[Warriorspikes51]

our practice squad could  compete against the starters and hold their own IMO 

really surprised that a few guys made it through waivers.  Especially Frank Gore Jr, Hamler, Hardy, Kingsley 

Edited August 30 by Warriorspikes51

[gonzo1105]

3 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I always see this, but what is the actual track record here? Poyer and Hyde were already good players, Tre obviously had a hell of a run, but Elam busting is rough. Hamlin never really came along, Rapp was awful last year, Benford was a god send find, and Douglas was already a stud. Honestly if we can keep fleecing GB for their DBs that would be great lol. 

Poyer wasn’t a good player. He was an injured backup. Hyde was a good player but he was a jack of all trades player in Green Bay that learned the safety craft here. 
 

Dane Jackson 7th round pick/ starter

 

Christian Benford 6th Round pick / starter

 

Taron Johnson 4th round pick (all pro)

 

Tre White (pro bowler, all pro)

 

Ja’Marcus Ingram (undrafted)

 

Cam Lewis (undrafted) 

 

Levi Wallace (undrafted)/ starter

11 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

I'm not going to attack the source here, because he be could correct, but I'm just gonna say that it is very much a "Mike Schopp" move to have on a guest to just absolutely crap on a Bills move without any push back whatsoever. 

 

And I say that mostly enjoying the afternoon show. 

Well the good news is even if all of this about Cine is true he currently is Safety # 7 on the roster and we’re not exactly relying upon him to play. 
 

There is also something to be said for when a coach is riding you/ giving up on you that effort starts to lack etc. not saying it’s right but you break your leg in your first year, then they pass you up before giving you a chance to prove yourself. 
 

Maybe a change of scenery will help and maybe it doesn’t but it’s a solid flyer and if it doesn’t work it’s not like we’re stuck with him 

[86poker]

3 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I always see this, but what is the actual track record here? Poyer and Hyde were already good players, Tre obviously had a hell of a run, but Elam busting is rough. Hamlin never really came along, Rapp was awful last year, Benford was a god send find, and Douglas was already a stud. Honestly if we can keep fleecing GB for their DBs that would be great lol. 

 

Imagine saying this when he took two unknowns (Hyde/Poyer) and turned them in the best Safety combo in the league, while currently a top CB 6th round pick(Benford) and the best nickel(Taron) in the league

[HappyDays]

I'm fine with this PS signing, but I'm curious - when was the last time a high draft pick flamed out with their original team, signed with a different PS, and actually turned their career around from there? I feel like there are a ton of these stories every single year and they never actually go anywhere. By far the most likely outcome is that Cine just plain isn't very good and will never see the field.

[Mr. WEO]

he was heavily recruited...for Practice Squads?

 

lol

 

 

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

I'm not going to attack the source here, because he be could correct, but I'm just gonna say that it is very much a "Mike Schopp" move to have on a guest to just absolutely crap on a Bills move without any push back whatsoever. 

 

And I say that mostly enjoying the afternoon show. 

For a team to cut a 1st round pick after only two years, there has to be a lot of legitimate negative out there. Not just made up stuff.

1 hour ago, 86poker said:

 

Imagine saying this when he took two unknowns (Hyde/Poyer) and turned them in the best Safety combo in the league, while currently a top CB 6th round pick(Benford) and the best nickel(Taron) in the league

Hyde was not an unknown.

[Coach Tuesday]

43 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I'm fine with this PS signing, but I'm curious - when was the last time a high draft pick flamed out with their original team, signed with a different PS, and actually turned their career around from there? I feel like there are a ton of these stories every single year and they never actually go anywhere. By far the most likely outcome is that Cine just plain isn't very good and will never see the field.

Cordarell Patterson, Ted Ginn, there have been a few with this type of trajectory.