Bobby Babich to call Bills' Defense

[NewEra]

45 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well,  obviously that's the wrong question.  Should be "why didn't they hire him?"

 

I'm "that guy"?  It's hardly a unique position.  From another thread on page one from today:

 

https://defector.com/why-your-team-sucks-2024-buffalo-bills

 

Look, this is Weird, right? The team’s previous defensive coordinator, Leslie Frazier, “took a year off” after a 13-3 season in 2022 and never came back. Brady is the fourth—fourth!—offensive coordinator of the McDermott tenure, and only one of his previous OCs, Brian Daboll, left for a head coaching job. Rick Dennison and Ken Dorsey were both dumpstered during/after playoff seasons, with Dorsey’s firing coming under especially dubious circumstances. How many head coaches get to hire this many coordinators? How many refuse to hire from outside the organization like this?!

Maybe most interestingly, former special teams coordinator Heath Farwell left for the same job with the Jacksonville Jaguars after the 13 Seconds game. I can’t prove that this is because, say, hypothetically, McDermott overrode Farwell’s call for a squib kick and had Tyler Bass kick it deep, which then gave the Chiefs just enough time to send the game to overtime, thus creating conflict between Farwell and McDermott that could never be mended. Nobody will ever go on the record about such a thing, so I guess we’ll never know what happened! Aww, shucks!

What I can say for sure is that a lot of Sean McDermott’s coordinators seem to leave or get fired at the exact moment people start calling for McDermott’s head. Honestly, good luck to Babich and Brady. If their boss forgets how many timeouts their opponent has—again (allegedly)—they might be called into his office on Monday morning. 

 

A little hyperbole there, but not much. You pretend like this hasn't come up here many times before.  

 

 

No, I don’t act like this hasn’t come up here many times-  I act like the people who believe this to be true are idiots. 

[hondo in seattle]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I have never looked at Babich's history.  He has plenty of play-calling experience.  Head Coach at North Dakota State for five season, Defensive Coordinator for the Bears and the Jags (three seasons each).   He's been around.  

 

I'm sure he and McDermott have regular, high-level discussions about how they want the defense to work, including play-calling philosophies and strategies.   

 

We'll see how they do in a week.  

 

I think you're confusing him with his dad.   Bobby Babich has never been a DC before, let alone a HC.

 

Though I forget how old he is.  Bobby Junior looks like a college kid but is 41 and has been in coaching for 18 years now.  

 

 

Edited August 30 by hondo in seattle

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think this is a legitimate question.  It's the same question as why would you hire someone with no head coaching experience over someone who has done it before.   And the answer is the same:  The coaches who have done it before and were successful at it already have jobs and aren't available, like Nick Fangio.  The coaches who  have done it before and are available are available because they weren't very successful last time.   So, when you're an owner or a GM or a HC looking for someone to be HC or a coordinator, you have two categories of candidates:    Coaches who for some reason didn't have a lot of success last time but who have shown promise and may be worth betting on the second time around, and coaches who haven't done the job yet but have shown a lot of promise.   McVay, Shanahan, Tomlin, McDermott all were guys hired as head coaches from that second category, and they all were great hires.  Belichick, Carroll, maybe Reid, all were guys picked from the first category.   Some guys who've never done it before fail the first time, like Marrone.  Some guys who HAVE done it before also fail, like Rex Ryan.  

 

There is no single place to look for great coaches.  And there are a lot of variables that combine to make them succeed or fail.  

So, in this case, you can hire a DC who has called defensive plays before but didn't succeed very well at his DC job, or you can hire a DC who has shown a lot of promise but never called plays before.  

 

McDermott is very much a promote-from-within guy, which is why we got Dorsey and Brady and Babich, and which means you're going to have coordinators without play calling experience.  

 

The Jets have Nathaniel Hackett as their OC.  The Browns have Ken Dorsey.   They both come to their jobs with play calling experience.  I don't want either one of them as my OC.  

You should know better by now!  He’s only a promote from within guy so he can sacrifice the guys he promotes in order to save his job.  Get with it!

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You should know better by now!  He’s only a promote from within guy so he can sacrifice the guys he promotes in order to save his job.  Get with it!

the guy you're quoting doesn't even know who Babich is

[Mr. WEO]

39 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think this is a legitimate question.  It's the same question as why would you hire someone with no head coaching experience over someone who has done it before.   And the answer is the same:  The coaches who have done it before and were successful at it already have jobs and aren't available, like Nick Fangio.  The coaches who  have done it before and are available are available because they weren't very successful last time.   So, when you're an owner or a GM or a HC looking for someone to be HC or a coordinator, you have two categories of candidates:    Coaches who for some reason didn't have a lot of success last time but who have shown promise and may be worth betting on the second time around, and coaches who haven't done the job yet but have shown a lot of promise.   McVay, Shanahan, Tomlin, McDermott all were guys hired as head coaches from that second category, and they all were great hires.  Belichick, Carroll, maybe Reid, all were guys picked from the first category.   Some guys who've never done it before fail the first time, like Marrone.  Some guys who HAVE done it before also fail, like Rex Ryan.  

 

There is no single place to look for great coaches.  And there are a lot of variables that combine to make them succeed or fail.  

So, in this case, you can hire a DC who has called defensive plays before but didn't succeed very well at his DC job, or you can hire a DC who has shown a lot of promise but never called plays before.  

 

McDermott is very much a promote-from-within guy, which is why we got Dorsey and Brady and Babich, and which means you're going to have coordinators without play calling experience.  

 

The Jets have Nathaniel Hackett as their OC.  The Browns have Ken Dorsey.   They both come to their jobs with play calling experience.  I don't want either one of them as my OC.  

 

Fangio was hired and let go as DC for 6 different teams before the Dolphins made it #7. 

 

McVay, Shanahan, Tomlin and McDermott were all coordinators hired from other teams, not from within.

 

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No, I don’t act like this hasn’t come up here many times-  I act like the people who believe this to be true are idiots. 

 

normally, I would not questions your expertise in the field of idiocy...

[section122]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well,  obviously that's the wrong question.  Should be "why didn't they hire him?"

 

I'm "that guy"?  It's hardly a unique position.  From another thread on page one from today:

 

https://defector.com/why-your-team-sucks-2024-buffalo-bills

 

Look, this is Weird, right? The team’s previous defensive coordinator, Leslie Frazier, “took a year off” after a 13-3 season in 2022 and never came back. Brady is the fourth—fourth!—offensive coordinator of the McDermott tenure, and only one of his previous OCs, Brian Daboll, left for a head coaching job. Rick Dennison and Ken Dorsey were both dumpstered during/after playoff seasons, with Dorsey’s firing coming under especially dubious circumstances. How many head coaches get to hire this many coordinators? How many refuse to hire from outside the organization like this?!

Maybe most interestingly, former special teams coordinator Heath Farwell left for the same job with the Jacksonville Jaguars after the 13 Seconds game. I can’t prove that this is because, say, hypothetically, McDermott overrode Farwell’s call for a squib kick and had Tyler Bass kick it deep, which then gave the Chiefs just enough time to send the game to overtime, thus creating conflict between Farwell and McDermott that could never be mended. Nobody will ever go on the record about such a thing, so I guess we’ll never know what happened! Aww, shucks!

What I can say for sure is that a lot of Sean McDermott’s coordinators seem to leave or get fired at the exact moment people start calling for McDermott’s head. Honestly, good luck to Babich and Brady. If their boss forgets how many timeouts their opponent has—again (allegedly)—they might be called into his office on Monday morning. 

 

A little hyperbole there, but not much. You pretend like this hasn't come up here many times before.  

 

 

You do realize the "why your team sucks" are written as tongue in cheek criticism of each team right?

 

They are written from the standpoint of being the most negative you can be.

[Shaw66]

38 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I think you're confusing him with his dad.   Bobby Babich has never been a DC before, let alone a HC.

 

Though I forget how old he is.  Bobby Junior looks like a college kid but is 41 and has been in coaching for 18 years now.  

 

 

Whoa, thanks!  I'm sure you're right.   Oh, well.  Maybe jr. will call his dad for help.  

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, section122 said:

You do realize the "why your team sucks" are written as tongue in cheek criticism of each team right?

 

They are written from the standpoint of being the most negative you can be.

 

I think we all understand that.  yet many of the words still ring true for each team, however. 

[ColoradoBills]

20 hours ago, BufBills83 said:

 

 

I agree with this, too.  I don't know why so many people on here think that McDermott makes decisions based on, at least partly, to save his job or look for a scapegoat if things go wrong.  To me, he doesn't seem like that type of person at all.  I don't think he's sitting around like "I'm gonna have Babich call the plays but I think he may not be great at it and I can take over and blame him for the failures."  I think he trusts everyone he puts in each position and if something doesn't work out, he makes decisions that are best for the team, not himself.

 

I tend to agree.

 

Leslie Frazier was the DC from day one.  He had 6 seasons as DC and I for one thought he was good at his job BUT just about any

Bills fan knows he was a bit too cautious in play calling, especially in the playoffs.  He wasn't "fired", and I bet Frazier was OK with 

how it was handled.

 

McD took over last year and no doubt made it known to the other D coaches that the DC job was going to be up for grabs this season.

 

He hired Babich and had him decide when he could start calling the defense.  They agreed the time is now.

 

Some fans can try all they want to find something sinister about this but it's only people who think and do things like that's spreading this stuff.

Edited August 30 by ColoradoBills

[billieve420]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

And why do you think he would hire his position coach over guys who have been NFL play callers?

 

Relationships matter. McDermott felt comfortable with Babich's knowledge of his system and thought he was the most qualified. Multiple teams sought out interviews with him. That wouldn't happen if he was not someone people in the league thought was up and coming coach.

 

Other people left the organization like D-line coach Eric Washington and Safety coach John Butler both of whom you assume interviewed for position but did not get the job. Washington had previous experience as defensive coordinator as well but they decided to go with Babich. Normally that is how it goes in most professional organizations and you look to promote from within first before looking outside. It would not have made any difference if McDermott hired someone from outside the org as anyone could still make claim that McDermott is looking to protect his job and find new scapegoat. McDermott calling plays last year squarely put target on his back and obviously Pegula thought he did a good job as he is still here. However, long term probably something that couldn't be sustained as the head coach has responsibilities outside the defense he is responsible for. End of the day any shortcomings or failures by people around him also fall on the head coach.

Edited August 30 by billieve420

[Snowbowl]

Haven’t read the whole thread but don’t be surprised if he takes over play calling if we get blown out. Did it to Fraser several times

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, section122 said:

You do realize the "why your team sucks" are written as tongue in cheek criticism of each team right?

 

They are written from the standpoint of being the most negative you can be.

Doesn't mean it isn't factually correct??? Lol

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Good. Our secondary and backers always perform and develop well. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, billieve420 said:

 

Relationships matter. McDermott felt comfortable with Babich's knowledge of his system and thought he was the most qualified. Multiple teams sought out interviews with him. That wouldn't happen if he was not someone people in the league thought was up and coming coach.

 

Other people left the organization like D-line coach Eric Washington and Safety coach John Butler both of whom you assume interviewed for position but did not get the job. Washington had previous experience as defensive coordinator as well but they decided to go with Babich. Normally that is how it goes in most professional organizations and you look to promote from within first before looking outside. It would not have made any difference if McDermott hired someone from outside the org as anyone could still make claim that McDermott is looking to protect his job and find new scapegoat. McDermott calling plays last year squarely put target on his back and obviously Pegula thought he did a good job as he is still here. However, long term probably something that couldn't be sustained as the head coach has responsibilities outside the defense he is responsible for. End of the day any shortcomings or failures by people around him also fall on the head coach.

 

I disagree with this part.  Hiring a subordinate from within creates a totally different power dynamic between coach and coordinator.  None of the inside guys would ever challenge McD.  Especially on Defense.  I can't imagine much of a degree of independence in play design and calling. Always waiting to get the hook.

 

[Trev]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well,  obviously that's the wrong question.  Should be "why didn't they hire him?"

 

I'm "that guy"?  It's hardly a unique position.  From another thread on page one from today:

 

https://defector.com/why-your-team-sucks-2024-buffalo-bills

 

Look, this is Weird, right? The team’s previous defensive coordinator, Leslie Frazier, “took a year off” after a 13-3 season in 2022 and never came back. Brady is the fourth—fourth!—offensive coordinator of the McDermott tenure, and only one of his previous OCs, Brian Daboll, left for a head coaching job. Rick Dennison and Ken Dorsey were both dumpstered during/after playoff seasons, with Dorsey’s firing coming under especially dubious circumstances. How many head coaches get to hire this many coordinators? How many refuse to hire from outside the organization like this?!

Maybe most interestingly, former special teams coordinator Heath Farwell left for the same job with the Jacksonville Jaguars after the 13 Seconds game. I can’t prove that this is because, say, hypothetically, McDermott overrode Farwell’s call for a squib kick and had Tyler Bass kick it deep, which then gave the Chiefs just enough time to send the game to overtime, thus creating conflict between Farwell and McDermott that could never be mended. Nobody will ever go on the record about such a thing, so I guess we’ll never know what happened! Aww, shucks!

What I can say for sure is that a lot of Sean McDermott’s coordinators seem to leave or get fired at the exact moment people start calling for McDermott’s head. Honestly, good luck to Babich and Brady. If their boss forgets how many timeouts their opponent has—again (allegedly)—they might be called into his office on Monday morning. 

 

A little hyperbole there, but not much. You pretend like this hasn't come up here many times before.  

 

 

You make a lot of good points. When do we start questioning these decisions?

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

You should know better by now!  He’s only a promote from within guy so he can sacrifice the guys he promotes in order to save his job.  Get with it!

When was McDermott's job ever in question.  I believe Terry has a lot of trust in McDermott and Beane

[BigDingus]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I disagree with this part.  Hiring a subordinate from within creates a totally different power dynamic between coach and coordinator.  None of the inside guys would ever challenge McD.  Especially on Defense.  I can't imagine much of a degree of independence in play design and calling. Always waiting to get the hook.

 

 

Agreed. I think it's pretty telling that he ONLY hires guys from within. I think he prefers comfort & control, nobody with enough pull to rock the boat, over everything else.

 

We all thought Dorsey's play calling was getting bad, but he was fired after a game where he wasn't the issue. And when you compare Brady's play calling to Dorsey's, the numbers are pretty damn similar (Brady runs the ball like 2 more times a game?)

 

It's not like Allen's numbers suddenly took off either. Even though we won those last 5 games, Allen finished with like 5 passing TDs to 5 INTs... His rushing TDs helped cover that up, but our offense hardly looked great. And the massive improvement to the running game looks pretty underwhelming outside of the Cowboys game. Cook struggled to average 4 ypc almost every game. Maybe Brady will have more surprises in store with a full off season under his belt, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him sacked if our offense flounders with this hodgepodge WR group we've been given.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Trev said:

You make a lot of good points. When do we start questioning these decisions?

 

we never stopped! lol

 

 

[folz]

Bobby Babich, Jr.

Played DB at North Dakota State (led the team in INTs his senior year)

Coaching:

2006 Kent State Graduate Assistant

2007-2010 Eastern Illinois Secondary Coach

2011-2012 Carolina Panthers Defensive Assistant

2013-2015 Cleveland Browns Assistant Secondary Coach (DBs/Safeties)

2016 FIU Secondary Coach/Defensive Pass Game Coordinator

2017-2023 Buffalo Bills

    2017 Assistant DBs coach

    2018-2021 Safeties coach 

    2022-2023 Linebackers coach

 

Son of coach Bob Babich, Sr. who spent 19 years coaching in the NFL (mostly as a LBers coach; 1 as ST coordinator; and 3 years as a DC), the last 5 years as the Buffalo Bills Linebackers coach. His son took over the Buffalo Linebacking coaching position on his retirement (moving over from coaching the Bills' safeties). The father and son did not coach together until Bobby, jr. was hired by the Bills in 2017.

 

 

I didn't quote you, but I hope you're still reading this thread Mr. WEO

 

Rather than being a scapegoat, maybe McD (and the other teams that interviewed him) think highly of him because of his pedigree (growing up a coaches son) and because Hyde and Poyer became one of the best safety tandems in the league under his coaching, and Terrell Bernard was developed and broke out under Babich, jr. after he had taken over linebacking duties. McD has had 7 years to evaluate the younger Babich (and to see how he is developing and coaching his players) and to train him in his system.

 

It is not uncommon for internal hires on the side of the ball that the head coach comes from because the head coach still wants his system run. He wants someone who knows his system, how it works, how to develop players in that system, etc. 

 

Look at Andy Reid: In KC, he hired Doug Pederson as his first OC (Pederson had been with Reid for 4 years in PHI, the last two years as his QB coach, before they moved together to KC and Reid promoted him to OC); Reid's next OC in KC was Eric Bienemy (promoted from within, he had been KC's RB coach for 5 years under Reid); and finally, Reid hired Matt Nagy as his current OC (promoted from KC Quarterbacks coach). Yes, Nagy spent 4 years as the Bears HC before coming back to KC as QB coach...but he also spent 10 years coaching under Reid before getting the Chicago job. They were all Reid's guys, promoted from within.

 

How about Tomlin in Pittsburgh? Well, he inherited Dick Lebeau and kept him on for 8 years. His next DC was Keith Butler, who was promoted from within (he had been the Steelers LBers coach for 8 years under Tomlin); when Butler retired, Tomlin promoted Teryl Austin from within the organization (he had been a Steelers secondary coordinator for 3 years).

 

So, again, not uncommon for a HC to hire from within on his side of the ball. Now sure, you can complain that Brady was an internal hire too as he was our QB coach for 1-1/2 seasons before being promoted to OC. But, he wasn't a true internal hire as he wasn't groomed in our organization or under McD, he had already been an OC for two years in Carolina, and he really hadn't been with the organization long. I know some will also complain about the ties with Carolina. But maybe, just maybe, because of those ties, Beane and McD saw an up-and-coming coach and pulled him onto their staff before he went somewhere else. Now, his time in Carolina may not have been stellar, but look at what he had to work with:

 

2020: CMC (for 3 games only, injury); QB post-injury Teddy Bridgewater; RB Mike Davis; WRs D.J. Moore and Curtis Samuel (good receivers, but otherwise...)

2021: CMC (for 7 games only, injury); QB Sam Darnold; RB Chubba Hubbard; WRs D.J. Moore and Robbie Chosen (so basically DJ Moore and CMC for 7 games, otherwise, yuck).

 

I have no idea about their offensive lines at the time, but my guess is they didn't have All-Pros across the board. And I am assuming that both years, that offense was supposed to run through CMC, yet due to injury, he only played 30% of Carolina's games over those two years. Actually less, because both years he got injured, came back, and got injured again. So that is four games that he had to exit early due to injury. So, it was really more like CMC only played about 19-23% of Carolina's games/snaps during Brady's two-year tenure. Tough when you have no QB and you lose your best weapon.

 

 

Anyhow, back to Babich. I think it is a good thing that McDermott gave him the reigns and I think he will bring that fire to the defense that many of us felt they lacked under Frasier. They were a bit more so under McD last year, but I think Babich can take it to another level. Here's hoping. 🤞 

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

When was McDermott's job ever in question.  I believe Terry has a lot of trust in McDermott and Beane

Sorry- My post was sarcasm -