How do you explain this team?

[stlbills13]

Injuries haven't helped. I know that's lame but it's reality. I also think Reid/Spags have coached circles around McD (and all teams) in the playoffs. That plus a generational QB in Mahomes makes it pretty dang tough. And yes, our top players have not stepped up other than Allen.

 

The window isn't closed. But it might not be quite as wide 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

McD is the one that took the offense off the field for the 4th down to go for the most telegraphed fake punt in history with Damar 'make a wish' Hamlin. Going for it was the right decision, but going for it with a fake punt was lunacy. McD doesn't get nearly enough criticism for that choice on here. 

 

The DEF got stops on the 3rd and 2nd to last possessions. We could have forced a 3 and out on the Chiefs last possession to get the offense the ball back, but they did not. 

Fair point- I digress- part of the blame lays on him.   I was one of the critics on that fake punt call.  I hated it.  
 

I suppose we still had a slight chance after the missed FG, but I don’t really put that failed stop at the end on him.  The 8 yard run by Pacheco on 1st down basically sealed the game. 
 

again-  he deserves blame.  Do you think he’s the only reason that we haven’t won a SB?
 

 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I'll rephrase if it makes you feel better

Heck I'll even use a euphemism

 

'the Bills playoff defense has been the single greatest contributing factor to their lack of success'

 

argue away

 

That's a fair statement.

 

The one I disagree with you is the offense doesn't deserve any criticism.  

 

Not scoring is as bad as giving up too many points.  They both lose you games.  

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Of course the HC is a part of the reason...how much so is the question. 

 

Versus KC in the Divisional Round they were minus defensive starters that impacted their game plan.  Everyone by now understands that.  Yet, this is more than 1 playoff game...the previous 4 seasons (2019-2022) they fell apart in the playoffs.  

 

I see people pointing to it being bad luck that players, especially defensive, are getting injured and stop their analysis right there.  Someone upthread, I think it was @Billl mentioned their reliance on veteran players who likely have a lot of wear and tear on their bodies.  The LB's can cover, but in the run game can be susceptible to injury because they're smaller framed.  The scheme in general during the regular season is good against mediocre to average QBs, but in the playoffs against better ones tends to break down.      

 

All of this begs the question: if your defense is key, but doesn't hold up against better teams and the players are getting hurt after a 17 game season...how do you address that in the off-season?  With new defensive additions?  A new DC? Putting the breaks on your offense to maintain TOP and help the defense?  Running it back personnel-wise for a few seasons with the same result?    

 

Because they've tried all that (or are going to in 2024).  There isn't a lot of confidence that this time it'll work.    

Milano and Bernard both missed the games with lower body injuries- if they weighed 10 lbs more…..they still would’ve gotten injured.  Our biggest guy, Daquan, missed most of the season with a torn pec.  Von got rolled up from behind.  Benford is not a smaller corner.  Tredavious is not a smaller corner.  Douglas is not a smaller corner.  Dodson was not a smaller LB.  
 

all of our injuries didn’t occur because we have smaller Lbers.  

[NoSaint]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

Correct-  I’ll say it again- McDermott is not without fault.  He’s 💯 part of the reason we haven’t won a SB.  He’s just not the only reason.  
 

so I’ll ask again-  what part did McD play in the offense not scoring any points in the final 18 minutes vs the chiefs?  Was that his fault?  Did that happen to play a part in the loss?  Is ANY team going to beat Mahomes and Reid after not scoring for the final 18 minutes in the playoffs?

 

….. meanwhile his defense got stops on the last 2 possessions….. when the team absolutely needed them to.  
 

but yeah-  the loss was on him 💯  👌 

 

 

reads like you think he’s the defensive coordinator and not the head coach 

 

I don’t mean that as an ugly prodding at you but I think it’s a common theme in discussing him. At some point, he owns the whole show and nitpicking which unit failed which drive in which quarter of which game is all him regardless

[BillsVet]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Milano and Bernard both missed the games with lower body injuries- if they weighed 10 lbs more…..they still would’ve gotten injured.  Our biggest guy, Daquan, missed most of the season with a torn pec.  Von got rolled up from behind.  Benford is not a smaller corner.  Tredavious is not a smaller corner.  Douglas is not a smaller corner.  Dodson was not a smaller LB.  
 

all of our injuries didn’t occur because we have smaller Lbers.  

 

This ain't about 1 game or even last season.  Even when healthy, the defense paired with a good offense struggles in the playoffs.  

 

The 2019 defense had 15 defensive starters/contributors play 12 or more games and they still couldn't hold up benefitting from a 16 point lead in the WC round to HOU. 

 

2020 defense was healthy overall with about same # of starters/contributors remaining healthy during season and in AFC CG vs KC it didn't matter because they gave up 38 points.    

 

2021 defense saw White get hurt, but they were healthy otherwise.  Didn't matter...still gave up 40+ to KC in Divisional Round game. 

 

Common theme is when a McD era Bills defense goes up against a really good offense in the playoffs they lose. 

 

Difference is in 2024, they won't have the offensive weapons to overcome defensive lapses, even a defense that is healthy.        

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

29 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Fair point- I digress- part of the blame lays on him.   I was one of the critics on that fake punt call.  I hated it.  
 

I suppose we still had a slight chance after the missed FG, but I don’t really put that failed stop at the end on him.  The 8 yard run by Pacheco on 1st down basically sealed the game. 
 

again-  he deserves blame.  Do you think he’s the only reason that we haven’t won a SB?
 

 

 

 

 

I can't say McD is the ONLY reason we haven't won a SB, but I do think he's the primary reason. 

 

In the last 4 years, with a top-5 roster (at worst), we've had 2 playoff losses where the team looked unprepared for the moment (first Chiefs game, Bengals game). We've had an epic coaching meltdown (13 seconds) and we've had 5 games where our DEF looked pathetic (Chiefsx3, Bengals, and Colts). For a defensive minded head coach that's just not acceptable. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

14 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

What the Bengals did to us in the divisional round?

 

Simple....Rookie Offensive Coordinator only scored 10 points + Hamlin fatigue. Boys were emotionally spent.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I can't say McD is the ONLY reason we haven't won a SB, but I do think he's the primary reason. 

 

In the last 4 years, with a top-5 roster (at worst), we've had 2 playoff losses where the team looked unprepared for the moment (first Chiefs game, Bengals game). We've had an epic coaching meltdown (13 seconds) and we've had 5 games where our DEF looked pathetic (Chiefsx3, Bengals, and Colts). For a defensive minded head coach that's just not acceptable. 

People focus on the playoff losses to the Chiefs, but in reality you can toss in the "at least we got there" loss to the Jaguars, and another classic meltdown to the Texans. Altogether it's a pretty pathetic playoff record....but it's more fun that watching other teams in January.

[GerstAusGosheim]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

I think Beane and McDermott are safe even if 2024 is a bad year. They have done a lot of winning since they have been here so they probably would survive a bad year. But Terry is not afraid to make changes firing HC's and GM's. The Sabres are proof of that. Granted the Sabres have been a ****show for a long time but still Terry will make changes if he feels it's necessary.

Josh will be 30 then. Cam hit the wall at 32-33. Anyone who thinks Josh will last until 40 is dreaming with the physical style he plays.

[Ballhawk]

I think it's combination of the difference between how regular season and playoff games are officiated vis-à-vis the type of bend but don't break defense we've fielded. The officiating issue should not account for the difference in the stats (in the playoffs) between Buffalo and its rivals against KC, but we don't know that for sure.

The style of defense though pretty clearly produces results over time in the regular season but is highly fallible in key moments in the playoffs. In general the nickel base set we run will be more vulnerable to higher caliber QB play in the playoffs. If you allow for refs, given offense's more 'flexibility' in the playoffs you have a recipe for some pretty big letdowns. I was happy to see McDermott try to evolve the defense last year into a more aggressive style defense, it remains to be seen if his defense can hold up in key moments where by design we give up the underneath stuff to highly patient, and competent offensive play, in an NFL that wants to see points.

 

Edited August 29 by Ballhawk

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

Josh will be 30 then. Cam hit the wall at 32-33. Anyone who thinks Josh will last until 40 is dreaming with the physical style he plays.

 

He definitely won't be running as much. Elway was the same way. Different era but Elway would scramble and run if he had to. As he got older, he became more of a pocket passer. Of course, having T. Davis as his RB later in his career certainly helped.

[ngbills]

Until McD proves otherwise this falls on him. It’s not just the KC and CIN losses but even some of the wins. MIA should have beat us with a 3rd string qb, IND almost us beat us with a Rivers playing like he was 90, PIT was within a score in the 4th. The Pats game is the only dominant win in all these years. 

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

So, a Defensive coach who played the percentages ( kinda, they had timeouts) instead of understanding the nuances in the most important play of the season? He went with what he was comfortable with and let Kelce run free.

 

I think he coached scared in those last 2 plays and it cost the team. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

reads like you think he’s the defensive coordinator and not the head coach 

 

I don’t mean that as an ugly prodding at you but I think it’s a common theme in discussing him. At some point, he owns the whole show and nitpicking which unit failed which drive in which quarter of which game is all him regardless

No- he’s the head coach and ultimately owns all responsibility.  I don’t think that he is responsible for the players making plays and the OC calling plays.  He is the one most reasonable for our losses each season.  He’s not the only one responsible.  That falls on many facets of our team.  
 

 

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

This ain't about 1 game or even last season.  Even when healthy, the defense paired with a good offense struggles in the playoffs.  

 

The 2019 defense had 15 defensive starters/contributors play 12 or more games and they still couldn't hold up benefitting from a 16 point lead in the WC round to HOU. 

 

2020 defense was healthy overall with about same # of starters/contributors remaining healthy during season and in AFC CG vs KC it didn't matter because they gave up 38 points.    

 

2021 defense saw White get hurt, but they were healthy otherwise.  Didn't matter...still gave up 40+ to KC in Divisional Round game. 

 

Common theme is when a McD era Bills defense goes up against a really good offense in the playoffs they lose. 

 

Difference is in 2024, they won't have the offensive weapons to overcome defensive lapses, even a defense that is healthy.        

We had the weapons in the past and only lived up to their potential in one season ending loss, 13 seconds.  19- they failed.  20, the O failed.  22 the O failed.  23, the O failed. 
 

yes, the D failed more so.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I can't say McD is the ONLY reason we haven't won a SB, but I do think he's the primary reason. 

 

In the last 4 years, with a top-5 roster (at worst), we've had 2 playoff losses where the team looked unprepared for the moment (first Chiefs game, Bengals game). We've had an epic coaching meltdown (13 seconds) and we've had 5 games where our DEF looked pathetic (Chiefsx3, Bengals, and Colts). For a defensive minded head coach that's just not acceptable. 

And in the playoff games vs the bengals and the chiefs, we didn’t have a top 5 roster in the field.  Not even close. Beginning of the season roster doesn’t = end of the season roster.  We suffered a lot of bad luck…..a long with being out coached.  
 

just like Shanahan has been out coached in 2 super bowls vs Reid. They have a much better coaching staff than we do….. just as they have a better coaching staff than every other team in the league.  It’s not always about us.  Sometimes it’s also about the opposition…..and KC is great

[Mat68]

KC had a better defense and DVOA doesnt take into account playing the teams 5th line baker who was retired 2 weeks prior. 

Pivoting to a younger team may help with the injuries the team sustained.  Hyde, Poyer, Miller and White all older. 

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

I am not sure...that would be 50-50

Yeah right. Like we didn’t see Mahomes drove his team for a winning score in the Super Bowl against a healthy SF defense. But sure it’s 50/50 KC would’ve scored against our depleted defense. 

[eball]

16 hours ago, Augie said:

We got stuck behind the Chiefs and had a few very bad breaks. Like the rest of the NFL. That’s sports. 

 

 

I think it really is that simple.  Nobody wants to hear it but LUCK MATTERS, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Gman10]

This season is rebuild