Are the initial 2024 Bills better, the same or worse than the initial 2023 Bills

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

They even traded away Ryan Bates. They made a conscious decision to go this route, and it wasn't because they felt they were getting worse. Still, we have to see how it goes.

Because of Bates Cap hit. You can find a post from me last year saying we would cut both. Both had nice cap savings. 

[BillsVet]

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The talent on this team though is notches below where it was. That’s pretty easy to see. They just had 1 player listed on a list of the top 100 in the NFL (the ESPN or CBS list can’t remember which). They had no one claimed showing that the back of the roster isn’t quite as strong as it has been. That should be obvious as guys have moved up the depth chart (Edwards, Shakir, Dorian Williams, Rapp, Epenesa) & their former roles are being replaced by lesser players.

 

Their use of UFA from 2017-2020 to improve the roster perhaps allowed them to rebuild faster, but covered up that they aren't/weren't a great drafting team.   When those UFA's moved on or aged out, the talent drop-off ensued as it has leading us to 2024 because their young talent wasn't up to it.  

 

Outside of taking Josh, trading for Diggs, and signing Miller, they're overall a really safe team in terms of personnel decisions.  That's not always bad, but the roster taking a step back for 2024 isn't just a result of their cap limitations.  Years of taking the low risk player with low to moderate upside is equally a problem.  And, trying to fix problems from the previous season without anticipating their future challenges.  

 

Can't run it back frequently and claim you're getting closer to winning a SB.  Eventually something's gotta give.  

Edited August 28 by BillsVet

[corta765]

On paper last years team was better and more proven, it also ended up being hit with injuries depleting depth and showing the age of veterans AND also require the firing of the OC to get the offense back on track to what is expected. But healthy team end of year last year with Brady at OC vs this current team I would take last years squad. I think this years offense could be actually far better by seasons ends I just need to see it happen, the defense I just can't stop seeing a regression to middle of the pack and a transition year coming.

[Fleezoid]

29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

QB:  same

RB:  better, Davis improves the room

TE:  better, Kincaid has more experience and they’ll run a lot of 12 formation

WR:  even, depth is better and Diggs was declining in Brady’s offense

OL:  same, better protection up the middle with McGovern vs. Morse but Morsexwas better at pulling and run blocking

 

DE:  better, Miller coming back, and Solomon I think will have an impact

DT:  better with Jones back and better depth

LB:  same to a bit worse with Milano out

CB:  better, better depth with Elam and Ingram improving

S:  same lose smarts without Poyer and Hyde but gain in athleticism

K:  worse, Bass has a mental thing IMHO

P: same 

 

Overall, the team is as good as last year and perhaps a bit better.  Comes down to Brady and getting his offensive plans going.

 

I agree with the positional take on this. The last statement got me thinking. When you add up all the pluses and minuses, it looks pretty much equal. To me the WR group looks a little like a wash. Diggs was best, he's gone. Davis was inconsistent, he's gone.  Shakir will likely be a much better version from 2023. But the remaining has a lot of unknowns. And I would add more weight to the WR group overall, meaning, I'm calling 2024 slightly worse.  As you say, it comes down to Brady and if he can get the offense going, specifically, the passing game. If it struggles, look out. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Poll?

 

Worse. But building towards something new with young talent & potential.

[Success]

It certainly has potential to be better, given age & injuries last year. 

 

Too many new faces to guess, though.  Excited to see how we look against the Cards.

 

[Gregg]

Have to wait and see with so many new faces. On paper they are worse. On paper doesn't mean anything.

[JP51]

Lots of "IFs" so many... Von does he come back strong,  brady is he and the offensive plan for real, is Josh better without the spector of diggs, Kincaid is he our Kelsey,  Safety does youth improve production, Shakir, Samuel do they adequately replace Diggs and Davis, McGovern at C and the Guard play at his old position.... right down to is Bass the 2022 kicker or does he continue to be a head case and inconsistent... I just have no idea... ask me game 8.... if you put a gun to my head I would say worse. 

[No_Matter_What]

2 hours ago, dpberr said:

1. Just a general impression this team - from coaches down - looks disinterested already.

Uhm what?

Edited August 28 by No_Matter_What

[Freddie's Dead]

Worse.  The lack of WR talent will be fatal.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

Because of Bates Cap hit. You can find a post from me last year saying we would cut both. Both had nice cap savings. 

But they would have kept him (maybe with a restructure) if they thought he could step in and start at either center or guard and be better than McGovern or Edwards respectively. They had confidence in those two, which allowed them to move on from Bates and Morse.

[hondo in seattle]

Last preseason, I thought we had a fair shot at a SB run.   This offseason, I feel less confidence because this squad does seem a bit less talented/proven.  

 

But if we can get through the season with fewer injuries to key people, we could potentially enter the playoffs with a stronger gameday roster.  

 

Another variable is that we have new coordinators.  While Babich may not autonomously run the defensive show, his elevation may add something to the D.  And Brady has had an entire offseason to retool the offense and according to some sources has made some meaningful changes.  

 

It's not outside the realm of plausability that the 2024 version of the Bills ends up being better than the 2023 edition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bangarang]

I think we are worse on paper. 

[pi2000]

Worse, much worse.    Top 5 draft pick worse if it wasn’t for that Allen guy.

[WotAGuy]

Hoping they are better overall. They went as far as they could with the team they held together for a few years. Time for some new blood and try to take the next step. 
 

Kudos to the OP for putting that comparison together. 

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, Desert Bills Fan said:

For the WRs:

are

Samuel, Coleman, Shakir, Hollins, MVS

as good as

Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Sheffield, Harty 

 

I think Coleman, Shakir, Hollins, MVS are as good.

 

But Diggs > Samuel.

So unless Kincaid steps up to create success in the WR type role, Josh is gonna have a tough time equaling last years success.

Harty and Sherfield were TERRIBLE,  our WR depth is better, not as top heavy but if Hollins can produce like 2022 and Coleman is as good as expected,  we're much better overall 

[GASabresIUFan]

I've added 3 polls to the thread.  

 

QB - Same. Trubisky vs K Allen is a wash.  Although White could an upgrade as the 3rd string

RB - Significantly Better! Cook is back, Johnson moved from the PS and proved to be more effective than Murray.  Evans earning a roster spot (IR) was an interesting development.  Adding Davis is a great complimentary back and he should be able to do what Harris and Murray couldn't.

TE - Improved as Kincaid now has experience and Knox is healthy.  I'm looking for 100 catches and 1000 yards from Kincaid this year.

WR - Worse on paper because of no proven No. 1 receiver, but could be more effective on the field.  Davis, Sherfield and Hardy stunk last year and Diggs' effectiveness plummeted around mid-season.  Shakir looks ready for the No. 1 job and the group of Samuel, Hollins, Coleman and MVS are better than Davis, Harty and Sherfield

OL - Same! Less experienced but probably more talented.  7 of the top 9 return with draftees SVGP and Grable "replacing" Morse and Bates.  This should remain a team strength

DE - Better because of better depth.  Lost Floyd and useless depth in Lawson and Ford.  Miller back and healthy. Smoot is an depth upgrade. Rousseau goers back to his natural position and Solomon looks little a 3rd down havoc maker.

DT - Better because of better depth.  Oliver and D Jones return.  A Johnson and Carter are upgrades on Phillips and Settle.

LB - Same, but could go either way.  If Milano comes back healthy and Williams proves effective, then the LB group will be improved.  If Williams stinks in coverage and Milano doesn't come back the group will be worse unless someone else steps up like Dobson did.

CB - Better.  Douglas outperformed White (when he played).  Benford and Elam have more experience.

S - Worse.  Hyde and Poyer, while aging and slowing were still effective.  Rapp was fine when he came in for the injured Hyde, but we still have no idea who else is starting between Hamlin, Bishop and Edwards.  Maybe Lewis gets the start.

Specialists - Same

 

It's hard to call the team better, but the team is younger, more athletic and has more upside if the busload of kids prove effective.  Another note is that the Bills started 6 new 1st and 2nd year starters last season (Benford, Benard, Cook, Shakir, Torrence and Kincaid).  Despite a significant youth movement, the current squad will only have only possibly 2 or 3 new 1st or 2nd year starters in Coleman (R) at WR, Williams (2nd year) at LB, and maybe Bishop (R) at S. 

Edited August 29 by GASabresIUFan

[Don Otreply]

Way better across the board, and you know why?

funny you should ask…, 

their individual reputations are all on the line, and not one of them wants to be a member of the team that lost the AFCE to these other Schmuck teams and didn’t make the playoffs,   Then get belittled in the press for at least a year and get smack talked to by everyone else in the NFL, reflecting poorly on their next contract negotiations, 
 

that’s why 😁👍🍸🚬

Edited August 28 by Don Otreply

[Rocky Landing]

My pessimist take: I feel like the only two positions one could argue have improved are RB, and CB-- the former being on the shoulders of a rookie backup, Ray Davis, and the latter on the training camp performance of two backups, Elam, and Ingram. I suppose you could say that WR depth has improved, but even that is highly speculative, and of course, there is no true #1. To say the team has improved as a whole is a hard argument to make.

 

My optimist take: Groot, Epenesa, Miller, Elam, Shakir, and Kincaid-- all veterans from last year-- enter this season on better footing than they entered last season. WR depth (beyond the #1) is better. And while the departure of Diggs leaves a gaping hole on the field, it may very well have repaired the mood in the locker room. Sky's the limit.

 

Bottom line-- there's plenty to be optimistic about, but this team ain't the Chiefs, or the Belichick*/Brady* era Patriots*. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[Mike in Horseheads]

4 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Since we let a player walk he must not be as good as his replacement is not accurate. He got way more than Edwards on the open market. We didn't want to sign an aging center in cap hell. The line is likely going to be a strength as it was last year. If I was debating on why it is better this year I would focus on Torrence developing more not Edwards being + against Morse. That's just not accurate as of now. Perhaps Morse regresses more and Edwards does great. Maybe the line gels more. A lot of unknowns, regardless it's not overly significant if I think the OL and DL is a smidgen worse. Either group could go either way and we have other groups that are much more obvious for the sake of this conversation. Note if we aren't aligned on this, all good on my end. 

I just remember Morse getting pancaked last year and thinking we need someone bigger there.