Amendment 4

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Well this is an unhinged rant not based on any reality. Just feelings and propaganda. 
 

For anyone who is curious as to why people actually get abortions:

 

“The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents' or partners' desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.”

 

Seems like policies promoting safe sex and contraceptives would reduce unwanted pregnancies while programs to make raising and caring for kids more affordable would reduce abortions for people who currently can’t afford to raise kids. 

 

Those reasons do still align with “do whatever you want to do”.   Maybe they’re valid reasons to some, but they still reflect a willingness to have unprotected sex and then absolve oneself of the consequences leading to the ending of another’s life. 
 

And given religion would likely make someone predisposed to keeping the baby, the absence of religion likely does play a part. 

[K D]

11 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Well this is an unhinged rant not based on any reality. Just feelings and propaganda. 
 

For anyone who is curious as to why people actually get abortions:

 

“The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents' or partners' desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.”

 

Seems like policies promoting safe sex and contraceptives would reduce unwanted pregnancies while programs to make raising and caring for kids more affordable would reduce abortions for people who currently can’t afford to raise kids. 

 

Sounds like you have never spent time in the hood or around low quality people. They can come up with whatever excuse they want but the real answer is that they are trash humans. Why do they do drugs, why do they have promiscuous sex, why do the eat too much, why don't they work hard, why this why that. It's not hard to understand. They have no reason to do the right things in life and so they do whatever feels good in that moment. They are losers and every society has them. There were much less of them when people had religion and were scared to shame God or their family. It gave them a purpose which is what these people lack today.

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, SCBills said:

Those reasons do still align with “do whatever you want to do”.   Maybe they’re valid reasons to some, but they still reflect a willingness to have unprotected sex and then absolve oneself of the consequences leading to the ending of another’s life. 

Well, maybe in some cases it's "do whatever you want to do, you can always fix it later."

But there's a lot of other situations. Woman thinks she's in a stable relationship with a guy; he takes off with another woman when she's 20 weeks pregnant.

Woman finds out her baby has a severe birth defect.

Woman herself discovers that pregnancy is causing her serious health effects, vomiting multiple times a day, unable to eat, possibly will need to be hospitalized unless the pregnancy is terminated.

Woman loses job (maybe because employer deduces she's pregnant) and has no way to support a new baby.

Uber-controlling man forces himself on woman, she gets pregnant, is scared to leave relationship until she gets help when 20 weeks pregnant.

Woman discovers that she was born in the wrong body, identifies as a man, is uncomfortable with the notion of being a "pregnant man" (haha, that one's just to get the trolls agitated)

 

Many reasons. More than I could think of here, but all "valid" in some respect beyond "I changed my mind and adopted a shelter cat instead"

 

 

4 minutes ago, K D said:

They are losers and every society has them. There were much less of them when people had religion and were scared to shame God or their family. It gave them a purpose which is what these people lack today.

In my examples, exactly which ones qualify as "losers?"

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, maybe in some cases it's "do whatever you want to do, you can always fix it later."

But there's a lot of other situations. Woman thinks she's in a stable relationship with a guy; he takes off with another woman when she's 20 weeks pregnant.

Woman finds out her baby has a severe birth defect.

Woman herself discovers that pregnancy is causing her serious health effects, vomiting multiple times a day, unable to eat, possibly will need to be hospitalized unless the pregnancy is terminated.

Woman loses job (maybe because employer deduces she's pregnant) and has no way to support a new baby.

Uber-controlling man forces himself on woman, she gets pregnant, is scared to leave relationship until she gets help when 20 weeks pregnant.

Woman discovers that she was born in the wrong body, identifies as a man, is uncomfortable with the notion of being a "pregnant man" (haha, that one's just to get the trolls agitated)

 

Many reasons. More than I could think of here, but all "valid" in some respect beyond "I changed my mind and adopted a shelter cat instead"

 

 

In my examples, exactly which ones qualify as "losers?"

To clarify, I’m only speaking on elective abortion where both the baby & mother are healthy. 

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, SCBills said:

To clarify, I’m only speaking on elective abortion where both the baby & mother are healthy. 

OK, but still ... how unhealthy is unhealthy enough?

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Those reasons do still align with “do whatever you want to do”.   Maybe they’re valid reasons to some, but they still reflect a willingness to have unprotected sex and then absolve oneself of the consequences leading to the ending of another’s life. 
 

And given religion would likely make someone predisposed to keeping the baby, the absence of religion likely does play a part. 

I conclude Americans don't do too much thinking and planning and just expect to live in a consequence free environment and support the side of the issue that generates that result.

[K D]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

In my examples, exactly which ones qualify as "losers?"

The ones having kids out of wedlock. No God leads to premarital sex, leads to single parent households, leads to poverty, leads to the children repeating the same mistakes, and around and around er go. This has already been proven with data time and time again.

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

OK, but still ... how unhealthy is unhealthy enough?

Severe birth defects, while I would carve into legislation, is a slippery slope because we’ve seen countries essentially eradicate Down Syndrome due to this.  Is that morally ok?

 

I couldnt force a woman to carry a pregnancy if it was causing her a complete inability to function daily and/or threatening her long term health.. recognizing that this could, of course, be abused to justify abortions for other reasons. 
 

 

Edited August 28 by SCBills

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, K D said:

The ones having kids out of wedlock. No God leads to premarital sex, leads to single parent households, leads to poverty, leads to the children repeating the same mistakes, and around and around er go. This has already been proven with data time and time again.

And yet the people from the most "godly" parts/economic classes of America have the largest percentage of babies born out of wedlock.

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Severe birth defects, while I would carve into legislation, is a slippery slope because we’ve seen countries essentially eradicate Down Syndrome due to this.  Is that morally ok?

 

I wouldn’t force a woman to carry a pregnancy of it was causing her a complete inability to function daily and/or threatening her long term health.. recognizing that this could, of course, be abused to justify abortions for other reasons. 

What about "no significant likelihood of long term health issues, but will need hospitalization and will be facing serious pain/discomfort for a month or two?"

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

And yet the people from the most "godly" parts/economic classes of America have the largest percentage of babies born out of wedlock.

What about "no significant likelihood of long term health issues, but will need hospitalization and will be facing serious pain/discomfort for a month or two?"

I would say leave that up to the woman. 

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, SCBills said:

I would say leave that up to the woman. 

Agreed.

This is why it's difficult to draw a line.

The fact that it is difficult doesn't mean we should just give up. But I do agree that in close cases we must defer to the pregnant woman: she is the one suffering the pain, only she has the moral authority to decide.

[Tommy Callahan]

France went from it being unregulated and available for the most part.  To a 15 week hard limit.  And the media and left ran with it as a huge win. 

 

The same actions would be attacked by highly funded PACs on the choice and life side.  

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, Tommy Callahan said:

France went from it being unregulated and available for the most part.  To a 15 week hard limit.  And the media and left ran with it as a huge win. 

 

The same actions would be attacked by highly funded PACs on the choice and life side.  

Can you think of any differences between healthcare in France vs the United States?

 

Also, what are the exceptions under the French law?

[GMB 8888]

Keep religion out of politics…when the right learns that their social issues are what kills them maybe they’ll wake up and tell the religious nuts to hit the road…

 

but they won’t, those Jesus dollars are too plentiful.

 

religion is a plague for those that are weak-willed.

[Tommy Callahan]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

Can you think of any differences between healthcare in France vs the United States?

 

Also, what are the exceptions under the French law?

Abortion in France is legal upon request until 14 weeks after conception (16 weeks after the pregnant woman's last menstrual period).[1][2][3] Abortions at later stages of pregnancy up until birth are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable

State healthcare in France is not free. Healthcare costs are covered by both the state and through patient contributions. These are known as co-payments.

[GMB 8888]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Abortion in France is legal upon request until 14 weeks after conception (16 weeks after the pregnant woman's last menstrual period).[1][2][3] Abortions at later stages of pregnancy up until birth are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable

State healthcare in France is not free. Healthcare costs are covered by both the state and through patient contributions. These are known as co-payments.

You literally just googled and pasted the top hit…

 

Cmon man.

[SCBills]

 

[ChiGoose]

55 minutes ago, GMB 8888 said:

You literally just googled and pasted the top hit…

 

Cmon man.

Hey, give the guy credit. Normally he just posts the same thing over and over again. At least this time he had the decency to do a lazy google search. 

[The Frankish Reich]

9 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Hey, give the guy credit. Normally he just posts the same thing over and over again. At least this time he had the decency to do a lazy google search. 

Yeah, but now I'm not sure if the eyeroll is preferable

[Tenhigh]

You deserved that!

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

I'm not so sure that isn't a parody Twitter handle.  Name is "The Femminist Turned Housewife".  The description says "All opinions are my husband's ".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There can't possibly be a woman that funny.