ESPN Player Survey...Allen Most Trash Talking Overrated QB in NFL

[JohnnyBuffalo]

There should be a catch all repository for threads like this called “Things men don’t actually care about but are forced to talk about because sports aren’t on”

 

Or the shorter version…

 

WHO CARES!

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

 

I understood what you wrote and what you have implied perfectly, because this is the least complicated issue I have dealt with today: Diggs is a highly inefficient player and this offense has improved in his absence by elevating more efficient players like Shakir.  

 

Despite understanding your point, your data, and your argument....I still disagree.  I disagree that Diggs is an inefficient player either historically or currently due to decline, I disagree that the offense has improved as a result of losing Diggs, and I disagree that Diggs replacements are better.  I believe Diggs had to go, but I do not believe we are the better for it. If Diggs is here and motivated, I believe he is still the best WR on the team by considerable margin  

 

I would consider an entire body of work when assessing a player's efficiency because, in my opinion, 10 games does not trump the other 118 games Diggs has played. Why wouldn't you want consider the entire body of work before confidently declaring that the offense improved by losing the best skill player on the team for the past four seasons?  What we can agree on is that once Brady took over, Diggs stats took a big hit.  But extrapolating the best 10 game stretch in one player's career and the worst 10 game stretch in another's to draw sweeping conclusions about the future success of this offense is a risky endeavor, especially when there are multiple factors at play. 

 

Diggs was never an inefficient player before so I find it difficult to believe that his talents suddenly declined as precipitously as his stats coincidentally once Brady took over play calling responsibilities.  Stefon Diggs statistics have consistently been in line with #1 WRs who command 150 targets per season.  If Brady can't get anything out of him, again I might have to look at Diggs 118 games and weigh them against Brady's 10 games at OC, and call into question Brady's ability as a coordinator.  If anything, this fact set has me more concerned about Brady because I have a much larger track record to rely on in assessing Diggs. Diggs yards per target stand out in particular over those 10 games.  I guess I don't fault Diggs for being asked to catch so many balls behind or at the line of scrimmage.  

 

You brought Shakir into this conversation in the first place and then declared I had to stop talking about Shakir.  I do not recognize your authority, and you will have to get comfortable with that.  Why bring him up in the first place if he is irrelevant to the discussion?  And why even bother comparing stats for a slot WR with 65 career targets to a #1 who had 160 targets last season? 

 

I am over this conversation.  You misunderstood what I wrote, and you have doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down insisting to changing the topic until you find a way that you were somehow not wrong rather than just realize you misunderstood the context of the post you replied to and made some incorrect comments as a result.  

 

All this has done is hijack a thread and make it about Diggs when my post was about some of the caveats between last year and this year in terms of Brady, and whether you like it or not, Diggs was highly inefficient with his targets last year in his final 10 games.  

 

This kind of dialogue is what I can't stand about this board and is what has me contemplating leaving for good as it has been at an all time high this offseason.  This never ending persistence to be right by manipulating the conversation to be something else to try and find a way to make an initial bad take, misunderstanding, etc correct.   

 

But hey, if you want to still disagree that a $26M WR1 averaging 8.9 ypc, 42 per game, on 8 targets per game over a 10 game stretch where almost every game was a must win, including 2 that were in the playoffs, is not inefficient, then fine.  We have very different definitions of inefficiencies then and there is no reason to discuss it further.

[Special K]

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, but he is also on the "Most Underrated" list as well....what?? How can they vote him on both lists??

 

FWIW, all four panelists on Around the Horn extremely disagreed with Allen being on the Overrated list, as they should.

 

What a Joke!

 

 

Edited August 27 by Special K

[Allen2Coleman]

37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am over this conversation.  You misunderstood what I wrote, and you have doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down insisting to changing the topic until you find a way that you were somehow not wrong rather than just realize you misunderstood the context of the post you replied to and made some incorrect comments as a result.  

 

All this has done is hijack a thread and make it about Diggs when my post was about some of the caveats between last year and this year in terms of Brady, and whether you like it or not, Diggs was highly inefficient with his targets last year in his final 10 games.  

 

This kind of dialogue is what I can't stand about this board and is what has me contemplating leaving for good as it has been at an all time high this offseason.  This never ending persistence to be right by manipulating the conversation to be something else to try and find a way to make an initial bad take, misunderstanding, etc correct.   

 

But hey, if you want to still disagree that a $26M WR1 averaging 8.9 ypc, 42 per game, on 8 targets per game over a 10 game stretch where almost every game was a must win, including 2 that were in the playoffs, is not inefficient, then fine.  We have very different definitions of inefficiencies then and there is no reason to discuss it further.

I know you can block seeing people’s posts, can you block them from responding to yours? 

[Dr.Sack]

if we can get a full season of playoff Josh then we can quiet the tiring "turnovers" narrative. Bottomline the dude wins ball games. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

Josh Allen has 174 total touchdowns (passing, rushing and receiving) in the past four seasons. That's 23 more than anyone else since 2020 and the most in a four-year span by any player in NFL history. He has 75 turnovers in that span, 14 more than anyone else.

 

He is the modern day Brett Favre, really.

 

 

He’s on pace to be the all time TD leader as well.

 

But TuRnoVeRS!! 

[BuffaloNuts]

Yep, so overrated. Just leads a franchise out of the ruins, leads the league in TDs year after year, breaks records, wins WAY more games than loses, wins or the division consistantly, plays his best football in the playoffs... even when the Bills lose. Not to mention, isn't a Diva and loves Buffalo. What a horrible situation we're in lol. 

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

I will say this again for these guys who somehow think Josh Allen is overrated. In the playoffs he has a TD/Turnover ratio of 27-4. That is better than Joe Montana much less many others. Putting this number in perspective Pat Mahomes had 3 ints in the second half against the Cincinnati Bengals in the AFC title game 3 years ago alone. 
The bigger the game the better Josh plays unfortunately the rest of his team just doesn’t. 
BTW Josh plays the NFC West this year for this anonymous player quoted. 

[RunTheBall]

Josh is the best QB in the playoffs even better than Mahomes. The problem is NO ONE other than Josh and Tauron Johnson show up in the playoffs, especially our D. That’s why we haven’t made the SB yet. Ed Oliver is MIA, Milano is either hurt or toasted, White didn’t show the past few years. Edmunds - hahaha. Von was never Von in the post season. Groot always fighting some injury. Diggs dropping perfect passes. Last year we had LBs who were retired in FLA trying to cover Kelce while Douglas was on one leg. KC’s defense makes plays in the playoffs and Mahomes does enough to win. That’s it. Our playoff defense is a joke.

 

 

Edited August 28 by RunTheBall

[Boatdrinks]

13 hours ago, MJS said:

Josh Allen has 174 total touchdowns (passing, rushing and receiving) in the past four seasons. That's 23 more than anyone else since 2020 and the most in a four-year span by any player in NFL history. He has 75 turnovers in that span, 14 more than anyone else.

 

He is the modern day Brett Favre, really.

 

 

True. He’s not Lamar Jackson though, and media talking heads along with some players can’t stand it. 

Edited August 28 by Boatdrinks

[BigDingus]

What's funny is that ever since this summer, one of the bigger Josh Allen (and Bills) supporters is Nick Wright.

 

Don't look now, but he's been pushing back on all these people predicting the Bills will miss the playoffs too.

[Mikie2times]

 

1. Josh is incredible and forces you to consider if he is the best in the NFL => Which will inevitably bring out haters

 

2. Josh has not won a Super Bowl => Which will inevitably bring out haters

 

3. Josh is not conventional => Which will inevitably bring out haters 

 

4. Josh is turnover prone =>Which will inevitably bring out haters 

 

Josh hating is a ratings draw. It's a debate with a lot of angles. He gives the media both greatness and low hanging fruit to question that greatness and the media eats it up. 

 

13 hours ago, MJS said:

Josh Allen has 174 total touchdowns (passing, rushing and receiving) in the past four seasons. That's 23 more than anyone else since 2020 and the most in a four-year span by any player in NFL history. He has 75 turnovers in that span, 14 more than anyone else.

 

He is the modern day Brett Favre, really.

 

 

They don't care about his rushing TD's (see #3 above)

Edited August 28 by Mikie2times

[Royale with Cheese]

Not sure if this has been discussed in the previous 4 pages but being that Allen is the #1 trash talker, some guys are going to state he's overrated just because they don't like him.  Like us with Jalen Ramsey.  He's great but he's considered overrated by many just because of his mouth.  Good point brought up by WGR.

[stlbills13]

There's a lot of ammunition being given to Josh this season if he's into that kind of stuff. 

[skibum]

23 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Prediction for 2024 - Allen throws 10 INTs max. 

There is only one WR on the team that Josh has thrown a regular season pass to. He will have 10 INTS by week 5. 

[dave mcbride]

10 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I will say this again for these guys who somehow think Josh Allen is overrated. In the playoffs he has a TD/Turnover ratio of 27-4. That is better than Joe Montana much less many others. Putting this number in perspective Pat Mahomes had 3 ints in the second half against the Cincinnati Bengals in the AFC title game 3 years ago alone. 
The bigger the game the better Josh plays unfortunately the rest of his team just doesn’t. 
BTW Josh plays the NFC West this year for this anonymous player quoted. 

27/6. He has lost two fumbles in the playoffs - one a killer vs Houston, and the other a strip sack vs Miami that resulted in a Miami TD and which flipped the script of that game. Just trying to be accurate here; 27/6 is still phenomenal.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[The Wiz]

14 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

Not a big LeBron fan but he has my respect.

Edited August 28 by The Wiz

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

12 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I will say this again for these guys who somehow think Josh Allen is overrated. In the playoffs he has a TD/Turnover ratio of 27-4. That is better than Joe Montana much less many others. Putting this number in perspective Pat Mahomes had 3 ints in the second half against the Cincinnati Bengals in the AFC title game 3 years ago alone. 
The bigger the game the better Josh plays unfortunately the rest of his team just doesn’t. 
BTW Josh plays the NFC West this year for this anonymous player quoted. 

His playoff TD to INT percentage is the best in the history of the NFL.  Meanwhile lamar struggles to lead his team to 14 points in a playoff game. Let that sink in... Then ask yourself why does ESPN and other national sport analysts have such a hard on for Jackson and the opposite with allen... hmmm

[billieve420]

It is in Josh's hands to change the narrative this year. People can't use Diggs as an excuse anymore. Team around him is markedly unproven. If he puts up similar or better numbers people will have to acknowledge how good he is. However, until he can get past Mahomes and get to a Super Bowl there will always be detractors.

Edited August 28 by billieve420