Bills cuts

[Einstein]

39 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I'm not saying the guy is Jerry Rice or anything. But cherry picking tweets from 4-5 years ago and before his years of improvement is extremely disingenuous.

 

What improvement!?

 

He has had ONE total year above 20 receptions.

 

1… out of 6!

 

Last year he had 18 total receptions.

 

We are his FIFTH team in seven NFL season.

 

If anyone is being disingenuous it is you for pretending as if the one year he ever produced anything close to NFL caliber is the norm or that was the “new and improved” Mack.

[Shortchaz]

23 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Who are the bottom players on this roster?  Toohill has to be close to the bottom if not player 53.  Spector and Andreessen have to be near the bottom.  Evans (in 4 weeks), MVS and Ingram have to be there as well.

 

49 - MVS

50 - Spector

51 - Ingram

52 - Andreessen

53 - Casey Toohill

 

 

 

It’s a weaker roster this year, not a surprise 

[BillsFanForever19]

32 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What improvement!?

 

He has had ONE total year above 20 receptions.

 

1… out of 6!

 

Last year he had 18 total receptions.

 

We are his FIFTH team in seven NFL season.

 

If anyone is being disingenuous it is you for pretending as if the one year he ever produced anything close to NFL caliber is the norm or that was the “new and improved” Mack.

 

He only had one year where he had more than 30 targets the entire season, in 2022. It was a 690 yard season. 

 

Like I said in my OP, I don't think he's Jerry Rice or some great Pro Bowl WR. But he did show something after leaving Philadelphia to still be in the league and produced fairly recently.

 

To just list 4 or 5 year old tweets when he was busting off his first team, painting him as just that, and completely dismissing what he did in Las Vegas - isn't telling the whole story and as such, is disingenuous. 

 

If all he did was be the guy from the tweets you cherry picked from close to a half decade ago, he'd be out of the league by now.

Edited August 28 by BillsFanForever19

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Stop repeatedly flooding this thread with stuff that has nothing to do with the Bills cuts today

Just pointing out Simon that after their cuts they literally have no speed at WR but I understand 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Joe Marino made me hate Toohill. Very surprised he made the 53 

[pennstate10]

36 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Brown so far is at best an average RT.  He still has much to prove to get a second deal.  Injuries have held him back no doubt.  He has gotten better. But if he had a 10 and that is supposed to mean something, how does he last until the fourth round and still struggle moving his feet in pass protection? 

 

Oliver is a good to very good DT with zero pro bowls and no where near a top 10 draft pick talent.  He is not really elite at anything - size, speed, or strength, and has been injured a fair amount.  He makes a handful of plays and can dominate at times.  He lacks consistency and again has no physical trait that is elite.  

 

Knox is the most physically gifted TE the Bills have ever had but that is a bit back-handed as the Bills have had the worst collective history of TEs in the league.  Not a single ProBowl player since the merger.  He is one of my favorite players, but either due to injury or lack of consistency he wasn't even good enough to keep Beane from drafting a TE to replace him. 

1)  Re Oliver "nowhere near a top 10 talent".  Do yourself a favor and look at the data for 2018-2022.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/draft.htm.  Oliver is a ++ starter, easily in the midrange of these draft picks.

 

2)  Not sure how you say that Knox is more physically gifted than Kincaid.  As far as i know, Kincaid didnt get a RAS score due to a late season injury.  But watching the games, its pretty obvious that Kincaid is more talented at football than Knox. 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't disagree that the hit rate at WR (2/5) has not been great on the day 3 picks.

I'm just pointing out it's not necessarily better at other positions - yeah, we got a starting CB in the 6th in Christan Benford, a starting nickel in the 4th in Taron Johnson.  But what's your take on Dane Jackson, Damar Hamlin, Jacquan Johnson, and Siran Neal?    Most people here seemed to think Johnson and Neal had no business starting on D and made the team as STers, which is true.  Consensus also seemed to be that Jackson needed an upgrade (which, Elam was supposed to be) and so did Hamlin.  And Rachad Wildgoose, Alex Austin, and Daequan Hardy didn't make the team.  So let's call Jackson and Hamlin positives (they did both start) and Neal and Jacquan Johnson negatives, fair?  So that would be 4 out of 8 hit rate, 50%

 

I guess that's better than 40%, but at the 8 DB vs 5 WR numbers, it's not a significant difference

For a team short on WR talent in most years of the Allen era, I would have liked that last ratio to be reversed. Also, you bring up Benford and there hasn't been an equivalently good player from the lower rounds at WR. My thought is that if a D minded coach wanted more picks in the earlier rounds on D, then Beane should have flooded the lower rounds with WR picks to hope we hit the lottery on at least one a la Benford. He double dipped with Shorter and Shavers, but both were not good enough to make the roster this year.

But I have partly hijackrd this thread and will stop now with the statement that I appreciate your points but didn't fully agree with them re:WR

Edited August 28 by Fan in Chicago

[Sierra Foothills]

9 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

For a guy like Ankou it has to be so frustrating. He has been on the Bills PS for years it seems, they like him obviously but not good enough to put you on the 53. Your always the first call up when a DT goes down during the regular season, got picked up and let go by another team last year. I get he's a fringe NFL player and that happens a lot but Buffalo has put a lot of work in with him to feel like you have hit the glass ceiling with this one organization but it might be your best chance still.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/earnings/_/id/22022/eli-ankou

 

On the other hand, $3.45 million in career earnings in 9 years.

 

After taxes that's a take home of about $220K/year. If he retires with his health it's a good gig and cool life experience.

 

9 hours ago, jkeerie said:

It's an annual tradition.

 

 

8 hours ago, appoo said:

The reason he struggled some this preseason is because this was the first time in his life he struggled to win off the LOS against guys as strong AND quick as he was. These are hard won muscle memory issues that may not payoff until after Halloween. 

 

I predict Columbus Day, October 14th.

 

8 hours ago, Simon said:

I think I might like to see Gouraige on this roster

 

He's a Braive young man.

 

7 hours ago, eball said:

I don't like players whose names are in the wrong order.

 

Then shouldn't you dislike their parents?

 

5 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

Yeah I hate Toohill making the team. He showed nothing. 

 

5 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

Yeah I don’t get that one at all 

 

5 hours ago, stlbills13 said:

Is Toohill good? 

 

4 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Joe Marino stated on his podcast today that he has seen absolutely nothing from Twohill on tape that would suggest that the Bills would keep him.

 

4 hours ago, Blank Stare said:

Jonathan is completely underwhelming. A “meh” of a player. I’m not part of the Jonathan fan club whatsoever. In fact, I’m sick of hearing about all his potential that seems to disappear when he hits a field. But he gives you more pass rush potential than Toohill. Toohill is diet Ryan Denney on his best day. 

 

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

The move that maybe surprised me the most based on everything I'd read and seen posted was keeping Toohill over Jonathon at DE

 

Toohill played 14 snaps this preaseason. He didn't make the team based on his preseason performance, he made the team based on his pre-Bills career.

 

Toohill, Dawuane Smoot, Austin Johnson, Nicholas Morrow, Mack Hollins, and Mike Edwards were the veterans brought in to solidify the roster. In years past it was guys like Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson.

 

And Toohill is more proven and likely better than Kingsley Jonathan.

 

[jahnyc]

The Bills need to upgrade their talent at WR.  Unfortunately, I can't see us being able to acquire a number one type WR in free agency given the cost, and a trade would be expensive in terms of draft capital and likely require a new expensive contract.

[BigDingus]

So Andreessen didn't get cut? The season is saved!

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

How could we cut this guy!!

 

I kept thinking of him, Dean Cain, when I heard Deon Cain's name.

[BigDingus]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

I fear that I will never understand the Mack Hollins love by fans (or the team).

 

 

 

He's QUIRKY! Shut up & get on board now!

 

Without shoes of course...

[Rocky Landing]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

I fear that I will never understand the Mack Hollins love by fans (or the team).

 

 

He's a #4 role player, special teams standout, exceptional downfield blocker, has a better catch %, and drop rate than MVS, and as a bonus, he's a great locker room presence. Why is that so hard to understand, Einstein?

[Rocky Landing]

Does it strike anyone else as weird that we cut Daquan Hardy, and traded with the Jets for a rookie UDFA DB, Brandon Codrington, that no one's heard of, but is described as a "speedy kick returner," and put him on the 53?

[NickelCity]

2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Does it strike anyone else as weird that we cut Daquan Hardy, and traded with the Jets for a rookie UDFA DB, Brandon Codrington, that no one's heard of, but is described as a "speedy kick returner," and put him on the 53?

 

I'm still miffed we cut Hardy. He oozed ability all off-season from my limited vantage point. 

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Brown so far is at best an average RT.  He still has much to prove to get a second deal.  Injuries have held him back no doubt.  He has gotten better. But if he had a 10 and that is supposed to mean something, how does he last until the fourth round and still struggle moving his feet in pass protection? 

 

Oliver is a good to very good DT with zero pro bowls and no where near a top 10 draft pick talent.  He is not really elite at anything - size, speed, or strength, and has been injured a fair amount.  He makes a handful of plays and can dominate at times.  He lacks consistency and again has no physical trait that is elite.  

 

Knox is the most physically gifted TE the Bills have ever had but that is a bit back-handed as the Bills have had the worst collective history of TEs in the league.  Not a single ProBowl player since the merger.  He is one of my favorite players, but either due to injury or lack of consistency he wasn't even good enough to keep Beane from drafting a TE to replace him. 

Yeah but that’s not their physical gifts which is what you said you couldn’t see. You’re right if your point is that they haven’t been elite players.  But it’s not cause they aren’t  physically gifted (as you said it’s mostly injuries). 
 

Also Oliver’s speed is elite (are you disagreeing with RAS?). His score is mostly hurt by his size. His burst is great and it shows in an elite pass rush win rate now that he’s started to figure out the hand fighting. 

 

so they have definitely swung on many trait players (heck buffalo joe).  Hoping we see a couple hit this year and it forms the core for second window. 

[NewEra]

32 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

I'm still miffed we cut Hardy. He oozed ability all off-season from my limited vantage point. 

This is the only cut in sad about-  thoroughly confused.  I think j he’s going to be a solid player in the league

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, julian said:

Nobody would argue that the accountability will always fall on the shoulders of the guy with the GM title, the point some are making is McDermott has as much input on his roster as any coach in the league and it’s a substantial amount of input to the point of veto power IMO.

 

 Bean isn’t adding a single draft pick or player of standing that McDermott isn’t giving the ok.

 

It was described to me by people from inside as McDermott technically has the power of veto in that overall in the organisational sense he is the more powerful of the two (although I am interested in whether that might be changing but that is just vibes nobody has told me that) but he doesn't use it to override personnel. He has input, sure he does. The final decision on draft picks, free agent signings and the 53 is Brandon Beane's.

6 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

You know that as fact, or just making the assumption because he is the GM?

 

I know it because that is how Pegula and Beane have described it and because people I have spoken to who have worked inside that building have said it works exactly how they say it does. McDermott has that overall power but he doesn't override. He has input, but Beane makes the final calls on personnel. 

 

I don't know what evidence people think they have that it isn't exactly how the Bills say it is? Other than their narratives created in their heads.

Edited August 28 by GunnerBill

[No_Matter_What]

6 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

Ahh the end of summer. Cooler nights, days a little shorter, pre-season games done, and TBD fans losing their SHT over the release of CB6 or RB5. Love it!

 

Hardy was drafted as a returner, that came from McDs mouth. He was meh at best. McD doesn’t like bad decisions and Hardy made a bunch the first 2 games. Also, McD is a DB whisperer. You can question a lot about McD, you can’t question his judgement or coaching of DBs. Yeah, Hardy looked like he had some potential on the outside when he was projected as a slot. He wasn’t close to unseating Lewis or Ingram on the depth chart. Cordington has much better tape as a returner, that’s why he’s here. I suspect Hardy will make the practice squad as we tend to over value our bottom of the roster players and many teams do the same with theirs.

 

I don't disagree with your post, but if Hardy was drafted as a returner, and Cordington has much better tape as a returner, why didn't we draft him instead of Hardy?

[Big Turk]

The Bills cut Hardy?? WTF?

 

He was supposed to be their return guy and from all accounts was doing very well at CB both in the slot and outside.

 

Plus he was a draft pick. Doesn't make much sense