Troy Franklin update

[LABILLBACKER]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

Ray Davis has sucked.  I was thinking he was a perfect compliment for Cook,  he'd hit the hole, one cut, north south, Boom.  So far that has not worked out.  But I was not a fan of Franklin's game either and didn't want us to draft him.  Let's check back in 3 years and see who accomplished what.

We won't ever know if a wr shines or fails if we don't even draft one. I wanted us to trade up for Brian Thomas but that would've taken a bite out of McDermott's defensive draft picks, like Bishop who got burned yesterday. We absolutely needed to draft a minimum of 2 wrs last April and instead Brandon went dumpster diving on Josh's behalf.  120M on Von well spent 🙄🙄.

Edited October 7 by LABILLBACKER

[Billl]

On 10/7/2024 at 12:55 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We didn't need Ray Davis. We needed a speed wr. I'll take a fast rookie wr going thru growing pains anyday over the scrubfest of Hollins, MVS and turf toe Curtis.

Franklin went 26 spots ahead of Davis in the draft, 7 spots after DeWayne Carter (who has shown some flashes the last 2 games).

 

In looking at the draft, Beane took some older players in the mid to late rounds.  Davis will be 25 next month, Carter turns 24 in December, Ulofoshio will be 25 in January, Hardy is 23, and Grable just turned 25 last week.

Edited October 9 by Billl

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

Franklin went 26 spots ahead of Davis in the draft, 7 spots after DeWayne Carter (who has shown some flashes the last 2 games).

 

In looking at the draft, Beane took some older players in the mid to late rounds.  Davis will be 25 next month, Carter turns 24 in December, Ulofoshio will be 25 in January, Hardy is 23, and Grable just turned 25 last week.

 

Beane needs to start taking more chances on potential superstar players like he did with Allen...sure you are going to miss some of them but having "good" players with "high motors" is only going to get you so far.  At some point you need game breakers and we lack those. Schemes can only help so much...at some point you have to have better players than the other team, especially in the playoffs.

Edited October 9 by Big Turk

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 10/7/2024 at 2:38 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We won't ever know if a wr shines or fails if we don't even draft one. I wanted us to trade up for Brian Thomas but that would've taken a bite out of McDermott's defensive draft picks, like Bishop who got burned yesterday. We absolutely needed to draft a minimum of 2 wrs last April and instead Brandon went dumpster diving on Josh's behalf.  120M on Von well spent 🙄🙄.

Eyeroll for the snark about the safety pick which was just as big a need as wide receiver honestly.  The guy got burned by probably the best receiver in the league early in his first start 😂

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

On 10/7/2024 at 1:55 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We didn't need Ray Davis. We needed a speed wr. I'll take a fast rookie wr going thru growing pains anyday over the scrubfest of Hollins, MVS and turf toe Curtis.

Call the Bills Store.  I need a #1 jersey, with 'TURF TOE' as the name plate.

[MPL]

On 10/7/2024 at 2:38 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

like Bishop who got burned yesterday.

 

Yeah, but like, if Bishop hadn't gotten burned then Nico Collins wound't have pulled a hammy, and then the game definitely wouldn't have been close. It was a 4D chess-move by Bishop. 

[T master]

On 8/23/2024 at 11:15 AM, gonzo1105 said:

The whole class hasn't really done much to be honest so far in looking at it. Out of the guys we could have drafted, Worthy is having the best preseason and Mitchell caught a TD pass last night but none of the guys including Coleman have done much of anything yet.

 

My choice was Xavier Leggett but Keons stats are better than his to this point so i give Beane props for trading back to get him .

 

Keon is 9 rec. for 175 yds. his avg. is 19.44 ypc and has 2 TD's 

 

Leggett has 13 rec. for 151 yds. with 11.5 ypc & has 1 TD on the year 

 

So for a rookie i'd say Keon is doing pretty good & as he develops more chemistry with Josh he should improve .

 

[GunnerBill]

On 10/7/2024 at 7:38 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We won't ever know if a wr shines or fails if we don't even draft one. I wanted us to trade up for Brian Thomas but that would've taken a bite out of McDermott's defensive draft picks, like Bishop who got burned yesterday. We absolutely needed to draft a minimum of 2 wrs last April and instead Brandon went dumpster diving on Josh's behalf.  120M on Von well spent 🙄🙄.

 

We either needed to go UP for one of the sure things or buy two lottery tickets from the 2nd/3rd tier guys. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We either needed to go UP for one of the sure things or buy two lottery tickets from the 2nd/3rd tier guys. 

eh  Brian Thomas Jr could have been had

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

eh  Brian Thomas Jr could have been had

 

I was including him in the trade up options, but fair he was generally seen a half tier below the top 3. @Kirby Jackson and I talked about that in another thread yesterday. I was 50/50 on the idea of give up a 2nd rounder to go late teens for BTJ pre-draft because he is a bit one trick pony. But if you'd given me a choice between that or two small trade downs and Coleman Id definitely have gone up for Thomas. His one trick is the thing this offense is sorely lacking. A genuine vertical separator outside.

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Beane needs to start taking more chances on potential superstar players like he did with Allen...sure you are going to miss some of them but having "good" players with "high motors" is only going to get you so far.  At some point you need game breakers and we lack those. Schemes can only help so much...at some point you have to have better players than the other team, especially in the playoffs.

I’m absolutely beating the drum that he has not hit on those guys, BUT I think he swung for them.  Edmunds, physical freak, should be a super star, didn’t work. Singletary, “most exciting” back in his draft, ehh.  Moss, all the right tools, turned out average.  Oliver, some thought he was Aaron Donald 2.0, turns out he’s just solid.  Groot.. same.. Basham was a wild swing for the fences that failed miserably.  AJE also a physical specimen with high output in college, has turned out just ok.  More recently, he went after Elam who has all the physical tools to be elite.  Torrence again a physical monster who’s been ok.. he did kinda hit on Brown..  Kincaid, looked like he could be a Kelce clone.. well actually he kinda is this year..  even Knox was looking at potential and it’s turned out to be just a “good” player.  Cook was “over drafted” in my mind, but he went after a game changer and as much as I don’t love him Cook is a legitimate top 10-15 back when you consider everything.  
 

Until this past draft, I don’t think he really played it safe, he swung for big potential, he just didn’t hit.   What I find interesting is he’s swung for high ceiling guys and though they really haven’t hit, not many have actually been a complete bust.  

 

I don’t necessarily agree with who he chose, but on the same token, I would have taken wrong Josh over JA, so I don’t have much ground to stand on (but I also would have had Watson or Mahomes on the team already.. so nobody would have hated me.. I was unsure which one I liked more, both had great starts to their careers, one obviously got derailed). 

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Beane needs to start taking more chances on potential superstar players like he did with Allen...sure you are going to miss some of them but having "good" players with "high motors" is only going to get you so far.  At some point you need game breakers and we lack those. Schemes can only help so much...at some point you have to have better players than the other team, especially in the playoffs.

 

He took such a chance with Von Miller who was injured and now when healthy suspended.  Shooting for the stars sometimes results in setbacks as what happened with Challenger disaster and very difficult to do with amount of friendly fire these sustain with internet geniuses questioning whatever they do and rooting for failures.

[Alphadawg7]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:38 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

We won't ever know if a wr shines or fails if we don't even draft one. I wanted us to trade up for Brian Thomas but that would've taken a bite out of McDermott's defensive draft picks, like Bishop who got burned yesterday. We absolutely needed to draft a minimum of 2 wrs last April and instead Brandon went dumpster diving on Josh's behalf.  120M on Von well spent 🙄🙄.

 

I wanted Thomas too and thought when he got as close as he did we might move up for him.  But I also like Bishop, its not about what you do in your first 5 games.  Bishop to me has a lot of potential moving forward, and I am excited to see him get on the field more.  And lets not forget, he missed a lot of camp, so that is why he has been brought along slow.

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I wanted Thomas too and thought when he got as close as he did we might move up for him.  But I also like Bishop, its not about what you do in your first 5 games.  Bishop to me has a lot of potential moving forward, and I am excited to see him get on the field more.  And lets not forget, he missed a lot of camp, so that is why he has been brought along slow.

We'll never know for sure, but I'd be willing to be that one of our two 2025 2nds could have gotten us up high enough to draft BTJ. Then we still could've had Bishop.

It seems to me like Beane never seriously considered any kind of move-up this year, because he felt he was entering a reset/rebuild period where he didn't want to give up any significant capital to move up.

It's a shame, because Brian Thomas looks to be an AJ Green level player, and his presence seems like it would tangibly elevate our offense.

Coleman has shown flashes, and I'm not writing off the idea that he can be a good player for us, but Thomas ALREADY looks like an elite NFL receiver, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that he winds up having a more impactful and impressive NFL career than Keon.

Edited October 9 by Logic

[DCofNC]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

eh  Brian Thomas Jr could have been had

Yes he could have been had and he was my realistic target.   It does take two to make a trade, I feel like Beane was hell bent on moving back to get his 3rd round pick back though.    I’m of the opinion, 1 stud is worth well more than another rotational player.  So either they didn’t believe he was a stud, or they really don’t think they need that type of difference maker at WR.  Either is concerning to me.

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I wanted Thomas too and thought when he got as close as he did we might move up for him.  But I also like Bishop, it’s not about what you do in your first 5 games.  Bishop to me has a lot of potential moving forward, and I am excited to see him get on the field more.  And let’s m not forget, he missed a lot of camp, so that is why he has been brought along slow.

I am high on Bishop too, assuming he turns out to be a good/excellent player, a lot will be forgiven.  You really can’t judge him on his first real action after missing a lot of camp.   I have high hopes for him going forward.  I would actually rather suffer through the growing pains for him vs throwing another mediocre vet out there in his way.  I firmly believe the Bills have the least talented S room in the NFL, Bishop showing up could change that.   I’m sincerely hoping Edwards and Bishop take over and start to play fairly well.

[Charles Romes]

Thomas looks way better that Coleman but Carter who was part of the Coleman trade-back has really been popping, and we needed youth on the Dline badly.  

[GoBills808]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was including him in the trade up options, but fair he was generally seen a half tier below the top 3. @Kirby Jackson and I talked about that in another thread yesterday. I was 50/50 on the idea of give up a 2nd rounder to go late teens for BTJ pre-draft because he is a bit one trick pony. But if you'd given me a choice between that or two small trade downs and Coleman Id definitely have gone up for Thomas. His one trick is the thing this offense is sorely lacking. A genuine vertical separator outside.

i dont think its hindsight to say him instead of say Mack Hollins wins us the Texans game

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Beane needs to start taking more chances on potential superstar players like he did with Allen...sure you are going to miss some of them but having "good" players with "high motors" is only going to get you so far.  At some point you need game breakers and we lack those. Schemes can only help so much...at some point you have to have better players than the other team, especially in the playoffs.

 

You can do this when you have a core.  When you gut the core and leadership of the team, you need people who can play day 1 more than lottery tickets.  

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was including him in the trade up options, but fair he was generally seen a half tier below the top 3. @Kirby Jackson and I talked about that in another thread yesterday. I was 50/50 on the idea of give up a 2nd rounder to go late teens for BTJ pre-draft because he is a bit one trick pony. But if you'd given me a choice between that or two small trade downs and Coleman Id definitely have gone up for Thomas. His one trick is the thing this offense is sorely lacking. A genuine vertical separator outside.

 

Yeah BTJ was the only guy I was willing to go up for.  MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze would have cost QB level compensation because none of those teams wanted to move that far down and never were going to.  Beane even said, none of those teams called him to explore a trade down knowing the Bills were targeting a WR.  So this was never even an option, nor should it have been for the heaven and earth level comp it would have took to get them interested at that point.

 

But BTJ was my top target entering the draft as I had him WR4.  I didn't want to over pay to get him, as he came with risks like you mentioned being unproven outside of the lone deep threat, but I was hoping once he got into the 20's (assuming he did, and which he eventually did) then maybe we would make a move to get him which in that range he was worth the risk.  

 

If we didn't get BTJ, I figured it would come down to Mitchell or Coleman.  

[Marcus Aurelius]

1 hour ago, MPL said:

 

Yeah, but like, if Bishop hadn't gotten burned then Nico Collins wound't have pulled a hammy, and then the game definitely wouldn't have been close. It was a 4D chess-move by Bishop. 

I like the way you think !