Do you support tax on unrealized gains?

[Backintheday544]

16 minutes ago, Beast said:

So, when those having a net worth of over 100 million stop investing, how do you feel that effects the economy?

 

Do you think it will have no effect on the average Joe? Will the job market be good?

 

Think about that and answer truthfully.

 

Like it or not, the extremely wealthy keep a whole lot of people employed.

 

So they would just let their money chill in a savings account with the interest getting taxed at 39ish percent?

 

If the ROI on the investments for the 10,000 people this would affect, is greater than the ROI elsewhere, they’ll still invest.

[sherpa]

23 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

Per AI:

As of February 2023, a study by Henley Partners found that 9,630 Americans have a net worth of over $100 million, which is considered centi-millionaire status.
 

So this tax would affect less than 10,000 Americans.

 

And if passed, soon to be 10,000 ex Americans.

 

Should we simply find groups that consist of 10,000 or less people and write laws to punish them?

[Backintheday544]

6 minutes ago, K D said:

Dems are so friggin stupid I can't handle it. Say you are a billionaire and the US passes this tax. Why wouldn't you just move to the Bahamas? Or anywhere on earth you want to live. By trying to scam rich people for a little more money you are just going to make them leave and then you get NOTHING!

Because if you’re a US resident you’re still taxed in the US.

 

You can give up your US citizenship and pay an exit tax on your unrealized gains.

Just now, sherpa said:

 

And if passed, soon to be 10,000 ex Americans.

 

Should we simply find groups that consist of 10,000 or less people and write laws to punish them?

Amd if they’re ex-Americans, they can pay the exit tax on unrealized gains and then lose the privledge of being a US citizen.

[phypon]

7 minutes ago, K D said:

Dems are so friggin stupid I can't handle it. Say you are a billionaire and the US passes this tax. Why wouldn't you just move to the Bahamas? Or anywhere on earth you want to live. By trying to scam rich people for a little more money you are just going to make them leave and then you get NOTHING!

I'm certainly not a billionaire, but I do trade crypto.  We're close to the end of the current cycle, but I'm contemplating renouncing my citizenship in the next couple of years because the tax rate is so high.  ~44% (close enough to 50%) on short term capital gains tax as it stands now.  Thats a F*ck load of taxes...

[sherpa]

2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

Because if you’re a US resident you’re still taxed in the US.

 

You can give up your US citizenship and pay an exit tax on your unrealized gains.

Amd if they’re ex-Americans, they can pay the exit tax on unrealized gains and then lose the privledge of being a US citizen.

 

I am quite sure you don't realize how this system works.

Repelling capital is an incredibly stupid strategy.

[Backintheday544]

14 minutes ago, phypon said:

When income tax was first instituted it was only supposed to affect the wealthy.  Look what happened.  Don't defend a poor tax policy just because you like a certain candidate.  It's a horrible tax policy and once it is implemented in any form there is no turning back.

The first income tax started on people making more than $600 in 1862.

 

$600 in 1862 is around $19,000 today. So if you think $19,000 is rich, wow.

[phypon]

1 minute ago, Backintheday544 said:

The first income tax started on people making more than $600 in 1862.

 

$600 in 1862 is around $19,000 today. So if you think $19,000 is rich, wow.

Give this link a look:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/the-income-tax-in-1913-a-way-to-soak-the-rich

 

Back to the question of the thread, are you saying you are okay with a tax on unrealized gains?

[Backintheday544]

4 minutes ago, phypon said:

Give this link a look:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/the-income-tax-in-1913-a-way-to-soak-the-rich

 

Back to the question of the thread, are you saying you are okay with a tax on unrealized gains?

You do know 1862 is before 1913?

 

per your link taxes applied at $3,000 today. That would be $95,000. Still not rich.

Edited August 21 by Backintheday544

[K D]

1 minute ago, phypon said:

I'm certainly not a billionaire, but I do trade crypto.  We're close to the end of the current cycle, but I'm contemplating renouncing my citizenship in the next couple of years because the tax rate is so high.  ~44% (close enough to 50%) on short term capital gains tax as it stands now.  Thats a F*ck load of taxes...

I can't post online if I do or don't have crypto but if I did I might be considering the same except that I also have a business and a good amount of real estate which would also be subject to those taxes. They also want to get rid of 1031 exchanges so I may need to do something about that before they change those rules.

[phypon]

3 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

You do know 1862 is before 1913?

 

per your link taxes applied at $3,000 today. That would be $95,000. Still not rich.

You're missing the point.  The point is that "no, no, we're only going to tax these people, not you".  then they tax you.  How do you not see that?

[Pokebball]

51 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

If your net assets are over $100,000,000 and assuming there’s no exemption for primary residence in the tax bill.

and agreement on what the value of Maralago is!

 

This is stupid tax law. Find your revenue some other way

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

It is an insane idea.

Yes. Property taxes are absolutely a tax on unrealized gains.

Yes, real estate is absolutely taxed as a capital gain, but there are conditions within the tax law that exempt some gains in certain circumstances.

 

No, property taxes are absolutely not a tax on unrealized gains.  They are a usage tax.  While an assessed value of the property is used as part of the formula, there are many different factors that go in to determining property taxes.  States, cities and towns can have separate rules.

 

For example here in Ohio, residential, agricultural, and commercial/business properties have different property tax rates.  We have a percent exemption, called the Homesteader's exemption, for seniors and handicapped homeowners. 

 

School levies get voted on in each community that increase the property tax rates.

Rates are determined by the square feet of the house and property, but each community can enact blanket deductions from the assessed value.  Often the taxable value is different than market value.

Re-assessments are done every three to six years and eligible for appeal to the county auditor.

 

Even villages can establish their own special tax zones and rules to some extent.  

 

All that being said, I'm totally against an actual unrealized capital gains tax.

[Irv]

This is arguably the most idiotic idea I think I've ever heard.  Where do the taxes end?  Do you tax unrealized gains on fine art, jewels, puts/calls, precious metals, classic cars, aircraft, boats -any asset?  Who's going to do the value assessment?  Social Security is on the brink and now they want to tax 401K's?  What a mess.     

 

 

Edited August 21 by Irv

[sherpa]

2 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

 

No, property taxes are absolutely not a tax on unrealized gains.  They are a usage tax. 

 

Really?

I "use" my property no more now than I did when I built this house, yet my tax has gone up 40% since then.

Strictly based on assessed value, by some  non voted on County puke.

I don't derive any value on a yearly basis.

Thus, it is an unrealized capital gains tax, which I pay yearly, based on somebody's estimation of what it is worth. 

[GaryPinC]

Just now, sherpa said:

 

Really?

I "use" my property no more now than I did when I built this house, yet my tax has gone up 40% since then.

Strictly based on assessed value, by some  non voted on County puke.

I don't derive any value on a yearly basis.

Thus, it is an unrealized capital gains tax, which I pay yearly, based on somebody's estimation of what it is worth. 

No it's not.         Assessed value plays a part in your taxes but it's not based on unrealized capital gains.    We have some communities in the Cleveland area which are almost all residential and their property taxes are significantly higher than mine for the same market value house.  Reason is no corporate taxes get extra tacked onto property taxes.

 

If you and your neighbor own the exact same market value house, same size house, same size property.  In Ohio, your property taxes would be the same.  Assume you both paid the same price for each house, you put in $60,000 in improvements, him none, and you both sell for the same price. 

 

Your capital gains are different than his.  Please explain to me how property taxes are a tax on unrealized capital gains? 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, K D said:

Dems are so friggin stupid I can't handle it. Say you are a billionaire and the US passes this tax. Why wouldn't you just move to the Bahamas? Or anywhere on earth you want to live. By trying to scam rich people for a little more money you are just going to make them leave and then you get NOTHING!

Actually, nothing isn’t even true. You’d end up with worse. It’s unreal how stupid Leftists are.

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

So they would just let their money chill in a savings account with the interest getting taxed at 39ish percent?

 

If the ROI on the investments for the 10,000 people this would affect, is greater than the ROI elsewhere, they’ll still invest.

You just don’t get it, do you? Their money would not stay in this country. One of the way those people gained wealth by knowing how to avoid losing money. And people like you think, “they’ll pay more and we’ll pay less!”

 

As my long departed Dad used to say, “***** in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first.”

Edited August 21 by Beast

[sherpa]

6 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

No it's not.         Assessed value plays a part in your taxes but it's not based on unrealized capital gains.  

 

Your capital gains are different than his.  Please explain to me how property taxes are a tax on unrealized capital gains? 

 

Assessed value is an unrealized capital gain.

 

Somebody is appraising the value, without a transaction, (thus the "unrealized" nomenclature), and taxing us based on that "unrealized" value.

 

Capital gains are an appreciation of assets. It doesn't matter what the asset is.

Thus, the unrealized appreciation of a property, allowing the local gov to charge more tax, is an unrealized capital gains tax.

[Backintheday544]

8 minutes ago, Beast said:

Actually, nothing isn’t even true. You’d end up with worse. It’s unreal how stupid Leftists are.

You just don’t get it, do you? Their money would not stay in this country. One of the way those people gained wealth by knowing how to avoid losing money. And people like you think, they’ll pay more and we’ll pay less!”

 

As my long departed Dad used to say, “***** in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first.”

 

 

Except, we haven't really haven't seen the so called Millionaire flight when studied on the state to state level. if these millionaires cannot be bothered to flee a state, I doubt they'll be bothered to give up their US citizenship just to avoid this tax.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-higher-taxes-really-drive-millionaires-to-flee/

 

"The most striking finding of this research is how little elites seem willing to move to exploit tax advantages across state lines in the United States," they wrote in the study, published Thursday in the June issue of the American Sociological Review.

 

But Young's research -- which examined the tax records of every U.S. millionaire over more than a decade, some 3.7 million filers -- makes clear just how rarely millionaires in the U.S. actually move, whether to take advantage of lower taxes or for any other reason. Of the roughly 500,000 households per year that report at least $1 million in income on their tax returns, only 2.4 percent, or 12,000 millionaires, migrate to another state; that compares with 2.9 percent for the population at large.

 

Of the top income earners who do leave a state, only a sliver -- just over 2 percent -- seem to be spurred by a wish to cut their taxes, according to the study.

 

What should we make of such findings? First, the specter of millionaire tax flight is largely a myth. That suggests state policymakers have little to fear in raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans as one way to close budget gaps and reduce inequality.

[phypon]

1 minute ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

 

Except, we haven't really haven't seen the so called Millionaire flight when studied on the state to state level. if these millionaires cannot be bothered to flee a state, I doubt they'll be bothered to give up their US citizenship just to avoid this tax.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-higher-taxes-really-drive-millionaires-to-flee/

 

"The most striking finding of this research is how little elites seem willing to move to exploit tax advantages across state lines in the United States," they wrote in the study, published Thursday in the June issue of the American Sociological Review.

 

But Young's research -- which examined the tax records of every U.S. millionaire over more than a decade, some 3.7 million filers -- makes clear just how rarely millionaires in the U.S. actually move, whether to take advantage of lower taxes or for any other reason. Of the roughly 500,000 households per year that report at least $1 million in income on their tax returns, only 2.4 percent, or 12,000 millionaires, migrate to another state; that compares with 2.9 percent for the population at large.

 

Of the top income earners who do leave a state, only a sliver -- just over 2 percent -- seem to be spurred by a wish to cut their taxes, according to the study.

 

What should we make of such findings? First, the specter of millionaire tax flight is largely a myth. That suggests state policymakers have little to fear in raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans as one way to close budget gaps and reduce inequality.

Do you have the numbers for businesses and people leaving CA and NY?

[sherpa]

2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

 

What should we make of such findings? First, the specter of millionaire tax flight is largely a myth. That suggests state policymakers have little to fear in raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans as one way to close budget gaps and reduce inequality.

 

I think they have a lot to fear.

Personal taxes, a bit less.

Corporate tax rates a lot.

 

Corporations have fiduciary responsibilities.

Capital finds its way to the most efficient markets.

It has no national anthem love.

 

Screw around with that and you'll find out.