Tua Throwing Bombs With His Mouth!

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I understand what Tua is saying and I would not want a coach like that.

But we know some players respond to that and we know many coaches can be successful.  

I think the issue is you need to know what works with each player. It seems Tua is psychologically fragile whereas a guy like Tom Brady can handle that coaching even as a young player.  

In the end these guys are pro athletes.  if they need motivation from a coach it's already a problem. They need a coach to put them in a position to succeed and to teach not to motivate. 

 

So....players who need motivation are a problem, so Brady was a problem because he required harsh treatment from BB to motivate him?

 

 

3 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Flores actually had more success than most 

Weiss, McDaniels, and Mangini all got two chances to be head coaches and sucked

Flores only one chance and got fired with a winning record.

What is the difference between those four people? One is not like the others....

 

 

Only one sued the league when he got canned..

 

he's not the first HC to get fired after a winning record.  not even close.

 

 

1 hour ago, eball said:

This thread is pretty amazing. There’s no real “story” here other than a new age player responding poorly to an old school coach. Tua still hasn’t done crap in this league (i.e., win a big game or playoff game); he puts up gaudy numbers in a video game offense that works well until December.

 

Flores got railroaded and Tua got a nerdy rah-rah coach to make him feel special. If McDaniel ever yelled at a player they’d probably look at him like he had a third eye. 
 

 

Did you misspell "Herbert"?

 

Anyway, your problem is that Tua got better after Flores left.  

[Don Otreply]

19 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Ah, fat slower Tua 😁😂🤣. 227lbs

Edited August 22 by Don Otreply

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes it's amazing what going from a defensive HC to an offensive one can do for a QB

 

 

Please.

 

The effect seems to have been what happens moving from a decent head coach who had a defensive background to a pretty good head coach with an offensive background. And the result is going from 5-11 to 10-6 to 9-8 to 9-8 (lose in the first round) to 11-6 (lose in the first round).

 

Should we go over what happened when the Pats moved from an offensive HC (Carroll) to a defensive head coach?

 

 

Edited August 22 by Thurman#1

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Please.

 

The effect seems to have been what happens moving from a decent head coach who had a defensive background to a pretty good head coach with an offensive background. And the result is going from 5-11 to 10-6 to 9-8 to 9-8 (lose in the first round) to 11-6 (lose in the first round).

 

Should we go over what happened when the Pats moved from an offensive HC (Carroll) to a defensive head coach?

 

 

Literally could not have picked a worse/less relevant counter example 

 

Just awful

[Richard Noggin]

Interesting intersection of generational differences in the game of football and many athletes in general...i.e., older players often celebrating tougher coaching and the ruthless and mostly impossible pursuit of perfect system execution, compared with younger players often (and predictably) responding more favorably to coaching and systems being adapted to better suit them individually. Flores (and also Gailey at the time, sounds like) were old school. Reminds me of Singletary's handling of his QBs. Kinda toxic and definitely not very helpful to their development, which in turn has a huge influence on team success. 

 

Coaches now need to help their guys have success ASAP (or lose jobs). And while Brady laments offenses being "dumbed down" to allow young QBs to play sooner, that doesn't mean that those same offenses can't expand and advance along with those young QBs' (hopefully) advancing aptitudes. It's almost as if contemporary coaches are more flexible, innovative, and motivated to maximize their teams' investments in young QBs, thereby hopefully maximizing individual and team success both short and long term. It's a superior model so long as the assessment doesn't drag on and compromise team integrity. 

 

JA17 has always seemed like a guy who's more old school. Daboll used to absolutely LIGHT HIM UP. If we saw visible fireworks on the sideline, imagine what transpired in practices and meetings. And Allen was the kind of guy who responded to that. 

[LeGOATski]

11 hours ago, Steptide said:

I believe there's probably truth to what Tua said, but wasn't flores the one who started him? Didn't gailey wanna keep going with Fitz? 

Yeah, they went back and forth between him and Fitz. But obviously Flores is the decider, and based on these comments, he probably signed off on benching Tua. He did exactly what you can't do with a rookie QB. 

 

Either you start the rookie and never look back.

 

Or.

 

You start the vet, let him eventually lose the job on his own, and then start the rookie and never look back.

 

It's that simple.

 

You don't flip-flop. Never flip-flop.

[eball]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Anyway, your problem is that Tua got better after Flores left.

 

What “problem” do I have?  Tua developed just like any QB should.  Josh Allen got better in his 3rd year too.

 

In my opinion it‘s poor form for Tua to blame his head coach…and I don’t dislike Tua at all.  My point still stands that he hasn’t really done anything great in this league when it matters.

 

[DaVinci]

I think they should bring Flores back.

[JP51]

21 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

I think that it's very possible that both sides are at fault here:

 

Flores clearly, especially in his first head coaching opportunity, tried to be too much of the tough guy, and utilized mostly old-school methods which have become less and less effective in guiding today's athletes.  Also, having a defensive background, didn't have the skill set or experiences to help a rookie QB develop

 

Tua for his part, has not proven to be the toughest or most resilient athlete.  Of course he's going to flourish much more under a guy like McDaniel with his offensive coaching background who has done a good job of building a system around Tua's skills, while mitigating his weaknesses as much as possible.  However, it doesn't fix those deficiencies, and coaching and schemes can only help so much.  We've probably already seen Tua's ceiling as a player - he's not going to put his body on the line, and he isn't capable of high-level improvisation or throwing off schedule like the truly great QB's need to be in today's game

I couldnt agree more... I think Tua also uses it to explain his early struggles to himself and move past them cause the boogie man is gone... but I totally see Flores taking the hard @ss approach as a new coach trying to control the room etc... probably a tough match especially because I believe Flores didnt want Tua intitially.

[I'm Spartacus]

14 hours ago, Punching Bag said:

 

You may have gotten more search hits if you used correct spelling of his name: Brian Flores although even some "publications" spelled it wrong.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/arbitration-issue-from-brian-flores-case-lands-in-federal-appeals-process

Arbitration issue from Brian Flores case lands in federal appeals process

 

 

 

Thank you for the link, and of course the spelling lesson! 🙂

[dave mcbride]

20 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Peyton has also come out in the last day or so and talked about how QBs need to be coached hard, and the best ones respond to hard coaching.

 

Not surprised lil Tua got his feelings hurt.

Yet Tom Brady eventually got so fed up with that style that he wanted to get the hell out of NE. Brady said somewhat similar things about BB after his exit (although he didn't call Belichick a terrible person).

Edited August 22 by dave mcbride

[Captain Hindsight]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Yet Tom Brady eventually got so fed up with that style that he wanted to get the hell out of NE. Brady said somewhat similar things about BB after his exit (although he didn't call Belichick a terrible person).

Brady left NE because they kept giving him ***** receivers. There is nothing to suggest Brady and Belicheck had a poor relationship other than media headlines 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Captain Hindsight said:

Brady left NE because they kept giving him ***** receivers. There is nothing to suggest Brady and Belicheck had a poor relationship other than media headlines 

Huh? Did you watch the Apple series? Kraft himself said that the relationship was "totally dysfunctional" by the end, and it had a lot more to do with interpersonal dynamics than the lack of receivers.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

What “problem” do I have?  Tua developed just like any QB should.  Josh Allen got better in his 3rd year too.

 

In my opinion it‘s poor form for Tua to blame his head coach…and I don’t dislike Tua at all.  My point still stands that he hasn’t really done anything great in this league when it matters.

 

 

Josh Allen threw for 3100, 20 TD and they went 10-6 and went to the playoffs in his second year.   No one here is comparing Allen's skills and talent to Tua's, so why even bring it up?  No one would argue that Tua did not get better once McDaniels got with him--and because of him.  How many coordinators did Flores go through in his brief stint in Miami?  It was chaotic staffing.  Offenses were awful.  Then they canned him. 2 years later, number 1 Offense in the NFL.

 

How many current franchise QBs in this league have done great things "when it matters"?  That's a strange dig to assign to one QB.

 

These are some of the problems with your argument.

 

 

 

 

[soflabillsfan1]

19 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Flores actually had more success than most 

Weiss, McDaniels, and Mangini all got two chances to be head coaches and sucked

Flores only one chance and got fired with a winning record.

What is the difference between those four people? One is not like the others....

 

One cried racism and sued?  Is that the answer?

[eball]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Josh Allen threw for 3100, 20 TD and they went 10-6 and went to the playoffs in his second year.   No one here is comparing Allen's skills and talent to Tua's, so why even bring it up?  No one would argue that Tua did not get better once McDaniels got with him--and because of him.  How many coordinators did Flores go through in his brief stint in Miami?  It was chaotic staffing.  Offenses were awful.  Then they canned him. 2 years later, number 1 Offense in the NFL.

 

How many current franchise QBs in this league have done great things "when it matters"?  That's a strange dig to assign to one QB.

 

These are some of the problems with your argument.

 

 

Do you think the additions of Hill, Waddle, Achane had anything to do with the offense?  Nobody is saying McDaniel isn’t a good OC.  My only point is that this is not a good look for Tua.  You obviously have an axe to grind against Flores.

 

What is strange about mentioning a QB’s ability in crunch time?  That’s how the great ones are measured.

 

And pretty much everyone claimed Tua would light the league on fire, so comparing what he has done to what Allen has done is certainly applicable.

 

Anyway, I don’t really care…I just found the conversation in here pretty amazing.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

46 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Do you think the additions of Hill, Waddle, Achane had anything to do with the offense?  Nobody is saying McDaniel isn’t a good OC.  My only point is that this is not a good look for Tua.  You obviously have an axe to grind against Flores.

 

What is strange about mentioning a QB’s ability in crunch time?  That’s how the great ones are measured.

 

And pretty much everyone claimed Tua would light the league on fire, so comparing what he has done to what Allen has done is certainly applicable.

 

Anyway, I don’t really care…I just found the conversation in here pretty amazing.

 

 

 

What do I care about Flores.  He was put in a position he was clearly not fit for--not his fault.   But he really didn't take advantage of it.  Tough to get along with.  Maybe he will get that personal growth and get another shot someday at HC.

 

"Pretty much everyone" said Tua would light up the NFL?  You just made that up.  But yes, better Offensive weapons always help a young QB.  So what?

 

It's strange to mention any QB only to compare them to the "great ones".  Obviously, the term itself requires that there are very few of them.  Nearly all current QBs are not "the great ones", so what's the point of bringing that up?  Everyone already understands this intuitively. 

 

Nothing amazing here...