Mark Vader Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: You have like 20 of these copium threads every year and your "predictions" never come to fruition. Probably because they aren't based in reality. Both Kincaid and Shakir should take a step forward this year, but even with a very significant one, we'll still have far, far less talent on offense than we did last season. I wouldn't say we have far, far less talent on offense. True, we don't have Diggs, and that's tough. We also don't have Sherfield or Harty anymore, and I don't see that as a negative. I think that Ray Davis is an upgrade at Running Back, and bringing back Ty Johnson is a plus, although I'm still cheering for Darrynton Evans to get a chance. Getting Curtis Samuel helps a lot, Mack Hollins is okay, as is Valdes-Scantling. Overall, there is less talent for sure, but I don't think it's as bad as you are implying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: You have like 20 of these copium threads every year and your "predictions" never come to fruition. Probably because they aren't based in reality. Both Kincaid and Shakir should take a step forward this year, but even with a very significant one, we'll still have far, far less talent on offense than we did last season. I don't see how we have "far, far less talent." The OL is mostly the same as last year. Let's call that a wash. Josh is still the QB. And Josh says his mechanics were off last year because of his elbow injury. He just might be better this year. The RBs will still be led by Cook but the guys behind him, notably Davis, may be better than last year. The TEs are the same. But Kincaid was a rookie still learning the offense and NFL last year. Knox was hurt. The TEs should be better this year. Shakir is still one of the wideouts but it seems his career is on an upward trajectory. He may be better this year. Samuel is better than Davis (more versatile, higher catch %, more separation). Coleman is worse than Diggs. So is Mack Hollins, or whoever you want to count as Diggs' replacement. The backup wideouts seem to be an improvement over last year. The drop off from Diggs to Coleman/Hollins is a real concern but we don't know yet how good Coleman is. Everywhere else, we're either better or the same. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 I'm not too worried about the offense. The defense tho.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: To be fair, Shakir did that with Diggs on the field. Do you think defenses will allow him to get open as much with no other credible WR threat? And that's not taking anything away from Shakir. He catches almost everything though people conviently forget his brutal playoff drop against the Dolphins. Kincaid and Knox will be sensational this year. Shakir if used like Edelman, Welker, Beasley can get 100 catches. Up to Brady and Allen to feed him the ball. 3 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: To be fair, Shakir did that with Diggs on the field. Do you think defenses will allow him to get open as much with no other credible WR threat? And that's not taking anything away from Shakir. He catches almost everything though people conviently forget his brutal playoff drop against the Dolphins. Kincaid and Knox will be sensational this year. Shakir if used like Edelman, Welker, Beasley can get 100 catches. Up to Brady and Allen to feed him the ball. The point is we have talent, and Diggs during that period had effectively given up / quit on the team, and was not being doubled up as much as folk like to pretend, our receivers room peaked when it was a younger motivated Diggs, Brown, Beasley and Davis as a #4 option, that two season window, has not been replicated talent wise since then. I think we are on the verge of it happening again, it will be topped off next season, when we have more coin and the draft, 😁🤞🍸🚬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 8 hours ago, JohnNord said: The only answer is Josh Allen. I’m not saying it’s fair, but it’s true. Take a look at the WR roster. The Bills are clearly counting on Josh to elevate the talent rather than the other around. Josh Allen needs to take a step forward from what has already been pretty much a HOF career? Really? 8 hours ago, NewEra said: Those were my thoughts in recent weeks. I will be looking to draft Shakir in every league. Kincaid is my guy and think he’ll be an elite superstar my optimism took a slight hit with the news of Samuels turf toe (and a super slight hit) with the MVS injury. Turf toe can be a terrible injury for WRs that lingers. He’s the best speed option we have. MVS is the next best speed option (and maybe our best) speed option on the outside. What scares me most is that we have these injuries so early in the season without even playing a real game. Our recent injury history has given me ptsd and I’m worried that it’s about to happen again. I still think we can be a very good offense, but now, more than ever, we need a great play caller. I also think the run game will need to be efficient and likely the catalyst for the pass games success. I just don't care about MVS. I was actually a bit terrified of him being a relatively significant part of our offense. If Hamler makes the team he can accomplish the speed threat portion that MVS was brought in for along with being an actual Special Teams contributor 8 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Better than what? Seriously? Are you just being difficult? It's implicit that when I say "in 2024" I mean "than 2023." Better in 2024 than it was in 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 8 hours ago, Captain_Quint said: I see alot of teams stacking the box against us and needing to be able to run against a full box to be successful. We have zero receiving threats at this point unless you want to count Shakir in the slot (which is a borderline 'threat'). I think Kincaid can do some damage, but he isn't a speed guy. The safeties and CBs will be pressing coverage and playing the run. Josh will need to check down and put together 10-15 play drives with nominal threats downfield. I think it will take Brady being able to gameplan like he's a top 5 OC in the league and keeping opponents on their heels for 18 weeks plus playoffs. If Brady and Josh can do that, they'll be in the talks for MVP and coach of the year. Shakir is a 4.4 WR. He has the speed and skill to play on the outside. He's not just a slot WR. Multiple scouts and film buffs have pointed this out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said: Shakir is a 4.4 WR. He has the speed and skill to play on the outside. He's not just a slot WR. Multiple scouts and film buffs have pointed this out. He doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: You list the best weapons on this team (not named Josh Allen) as guys who need to "take a step forward" (they did so last year)...while listing a journeyman/bum like Ty Johnson and 4th round 24 year old rookie Davis as an "upgrade" at RB?? You disagree that Ty Johnson in year 2 and Ray Davis are an upgrade over Ty Johnson we acquired as the season started and 33 year old Latavius Murray who fell apart throughout the season? 5 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: You thought Tyrod was good Can’t trust any cheerleader takes 5 hours ago, Bangarang said: Mack Hollins is 30 years old and has been in the league for 7 years already. In those 7 years, his career high in receiving yards is 690. The rest of those years he's failed to have more than 251 receiving yards and now you think he could suddenly be an upgrade to Gabe? It seems like Shakir and/or Kincaid are going to need monster years for this offense to be one of the league's best. I'm skeptical right now. I think I said Samuel who would be our #2 WR would be the upgrade over Gabe who was our #2. But as for Hollins, look who was throwing him the ball over the span of his career. He's also potentially our #4 WR. WRs 1-4 this year >>>> WRs 1-4 last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 44 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Josh Allen needs to take a step forward from what has already been pretty much a HOF career? Really? I just don't care about MVS. I was actually a bit terrified of him being a relatively significant part of our offense. If Hamler makes the team he can accomplish the speed threat portion that MVS was brought in for along with being an actual Special Teams contributor Seriously? Are you just being difficult? It's implicit that when I say "in 2024" I mean "than 2023." Better in 2024 than it was in 2023. I’m not saying I agree with it, but for the Bills to succeed Josh is going to have to get the most out of a group of wide receivers who have mostly been a WR3 in their previous stops and a polarizing prospect in Coleman. Josh will need to show that he can elevate this talent like great quarterbacks have done in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 9 minutes ago, JohnNord said: Josh will need to show that he can elevate this talent like great quarterbacks have done in the past. Past examples will help explain your point. What are the past examples. List the QB and the WRs they elevated. Edited August 21 by Chaos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 7 minutes ago, Chaos said: Past examples will help explain your point. What are the past examples. List the QB and the WRs they elevated. Brady in 2015, 2017 and 2019 Mahomes in 2023 and 2024 Neither had a true WR1 like Josh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, JohnNord said: Brady in 2015, 2017 and 2019 Mahomes in 2023 and 2024 Neither had a true WR1 like Josh Please list the WR3 level players they elevated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: We're going to need more than that. We are going to need some production where it's least a legitimate threat on the outside. We can't just have the defense take away the middle and we're cooked. Shakir can play on the outside, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chaos said: Please list the WR3 level players they elevated. I think you’d be hard pressed to call Julian Edelman a WR1 on most teams. Ditto for Rashee Rice Teams that won Super Bowl have had stronger WR’s than what Josh currently has…at least until point. The one exception might be Kansas City in 2023. They had a WR room that largely resembles what Buffalo currently has. Edited August 21 by JohnNord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 5 hours ago, GoBills808 said: It's very tough having to read 'why is this board so negative' and then 'shakir is basically a clone of diggs' in back to back threads Did I say that? I absolutely don't believe that and didn't say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 24 minutes ago, JohnNord said: Rashee Rice 938 yards is not really elevated to WR1 production. If your argument is the Chiefs won in spite of relying on Kelce as their primary offensive, rather WRs that makes sense. But Rice was not elevated to anything special. Edelman was a great slot reciever. Belichek-Brady-Edelman was certainly greater than Edelman on his own. But I don't think Edelman was every considered a WR1 replacement. Edited August 21 by Chaos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: You have like 20 of these copium threads every year and your "predictions" never come to fruition. Probably because they aren't based in reality. Both Kincaid and Shakir should take a step forward this year, but even with a very significant one, we'll still have far, far less talent on offense than we did last season. RBs 2023 Cook, aging Murray, Ty Johnson picked up as season starts RBs 2024 Cook, Davis, Ty Johnson with a year in the system 2024>>>2023 OL 2023 Dion, McGovern, Morse, Cybo (rookie), Brown OL 2024 Dion, Edwards, McGovern, Cybo, Brown 2024<<<<2023 I'm putting this all on the question mark that McGovern is at Center and Edwards is at Guard. Cybo at RG should be pretty awesome this year. Dawkins should be his usual reliable self. Brown is playing for a contract. There's a pretty good chance this group this year is better, but it's just unknown right now. TEs 2023 Kincaid (rookie), Knox (injured), Morris TEs 2024 Kincaid (year 2 & a focal point), Knox (healthy... hopefully), Morris &/or Davidson 2024>>>>>2023 WRs 2023 Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Sherfield, Harty WRs 2024 Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Holins, ????????? 2024=====2023 I would argue 2024 is better, but benefit of the doubt they're equal until we see it. I mean... I get that Diggs was Elite & Davis was productive, but Samuel has been a more productive player (when healthy) over the course of his career. And if Shakir was the #3 last year and it's Coleman/Hollins we're considering as replaced production... I don't know who really things the 2 of them can't outproduce what Shakir did together. Who knows about WR #5, but seems inconsequential. Diggs >> Shakir Davis <<< Samuel Shakir << Hollins/Coleman Far, far less talent? You're being hyperbolic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: He doesn't. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10021509-khalil-shakir-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-boise-state-wr POSITIVES — Good route-runner who can operate from the slot and outside. Consistently gets his depth and understands how to use leverage to win. https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Khalil-Shakir-WR-BoiseState Scouting Report: Strengths -Knows how to beet press corners with leverage and excellent foot speed -Provides a good element of versatility - played both in the slot and outside -Often used on deep routes, getting separation down the sideline or over the middle on crossing routes by extending his arms rather than pure speed These are just a couple, but plenty of film buffs who watch the film agree Shakir can be an effective outside WR. Ironically enough, much of his scouting report resembles Diggs's scouting report coming out of college, when most felt he could play either inside or outside, but would be most effective on the inside in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: You disagree that Ty Johnson in year 2 and Ray Davis are an upgrade over Ty Johnson we acquired as the season started and 33 year old Latavius Murray who fell apart throughout the season? I do disagree: Ty Johnson isn't in "year 2"--he's entering his 6th year on his 3rd team and he has about 1000 career yards rushing. In fact, the Bills couldn't find anything for him to do Offensively last year, despite no real RB2 to compete with--he's a Bills zero so far. Davis is a complete unknown as he hasn't taken a snap in a real game yet. So far, he's indistinguishable from Frank Gore Jr. Why would you claim they are a big "upgrade" despite this? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: You list the best weapons on this team (not named Josh Allen) as guys who need to "take a step forward" (they did so last year)...while listing a journeyman/bum like Ty Johnson and 4th round 24 year old rookie Davis as an "upgrade" at RB?? Wow, I just realized that Ray Davis is 3 months older than Shakir. He’ll be 25 before the bye week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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