Our offense is better in 2024 if 2 guys take a step forward

[Jauronimo]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Better than what?

Better than the Bears game I hope.

[GoBills808]

Imagine if three guys take a step forward

Or better yet, four 

 

Imagine if five guys each take 2 steps forward

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

 

Imagine if five guys each take 2 steps forward

 

That's got to be a procedure penalty...

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

938 yards is not really elevated to WR1 production. If your argument is the Chiefs won in spite of relying on Kelce as their primary offensive, rather WRs that makes sense. But Rice was not elevated to anything special. 

Edelman was a great slot reciever.  Belichek-Brady-Edelman was certainly greater than Edelman on his own.  But I don't think Edelman was ever orreconsidered a WR1 replacement. 

Sure but Edelman was a 7th round QB converted to WR.   I also don’t think he’d have anywhere close to the same success he had in NE if it wasn’t for Brady.  Also I never recall anyone putting Edelman among the top 10 WR’s…. Maybe not even Top 15.

 

I think we can also talk about WR’s like Amendola and Hogan to a lesser extent who never put up big numbers but were most effective in NE.  

 

You get where I’m going… Much like Brady Josh doesn’t have a WR1 either.  Instead he has a trio of versatile slot WR’s.

 

Your point about Rice is fair - but his rookie season yardage is greater than the output than any current Bills WR.  It might even be greater than the single output of any WR THIS season.  
 

Now what did PM and TB have that Josh also might have too?  An elite TE as their primary option and a defense that balled in the post season.  Is Kincaid that guy?  We don’t know yet but he’s shown flashes and there’s a chance that the defense could be better than last season .  
 

 

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, Billl said:

Wow, I just realized that Ray Davis is 3 months older than Shakir.  He’ll be 25 before the bye week.  

 

He's old enough for the HOF!

[Simon]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

He's old enough for the HOF!

 

Half Off Friday?

[Bangarang]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You disagree that Ty Johnson in year 2 and Ray Davis are an upgrade over Ty Johnson we acquired as the season started and 33 year old Latavius Murray who fell apart throughout the season?

 

I think I said Samuel who would be our #2 WR would be the upgrade over Gabe who was our #2.

 

But as for Hollins, look who was throwing him the ball over the span of his career.  He's also potentially our #4 WR.  WRs 1-4 this year >>>> WRs 1-4 last year.

 

Sir..

 

Quote

It might not even be Coleman who upgrades over Davis. It might be Hollins.

 

[90sBills]

16 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

That was the crew Mahomes won league MVP with while putting up gaudy numbers after losing Tyreek Hill.

 

Going into the season expecting to replicate what Mahomes and KC did with subpar receivers isn’t much of a plan. If it’s that viable there wouldn’t be an explosion of receivers contracts in the league. 

[gonzo1105]

56 minutes ago, Billl said:

Wow, I just realized that Ray Davis is 3 months older than Shakir.  He’ll be 25 before the bye week.  

Any other position this would matter but most teams recycle RBs every 4 years anyways . He won’t get a big 2nd contract 

[Mr. WEO]

46 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Half Off Friday?

 

If he's lucky...

[Punching Bag]

19 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

WRs... well... what do we say? Diggs was All Pro 1st half last season but Houdini in the 2nd half. Gabe was just not very good... in fact I think he was largely responsible for our passing woes and multiple turnovers. Sherfield & Harty... really???

 

 

Gabe Davis was largely responsible for such good run and pass game performance - he was blocking making space for RBs and in bunch formations he was creating space for WRs.     Gabe Davis caught 163 balls for 2,730 yards and 27 touchdowns for Bills mostly from Josh Allen and will be hard to replace.  He also works hard during offseason which last year was mostly making himself more physical,  He also stays healthy which is something Bills need.  Gabe Davis is gone because Bills could not afford him and Jacksonville needed someone solid.

 

Diggs was invisible man second half of season last year not Houdini making magic and great escapes.

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, JohnNord said:

The only answer is Josh Allen.  I’m not saying it’s fair, but it’s true.  Take a look at the WR roster.  The Bills are clearly counting on Josh to elevate the talent rather than the other around.  

 

 

Polite disagreement.

 

It could go both ways, particularly with those two guys, Shakir and Kincaid. Both are very young and could easily take big leaps this season. It's not a sure thing, but particularly with Kincaid it seems pretty likely.

 

Having Allen will help, quite clearly. But maybe having Kincaid and Shakir will help Allen a lot too.

[Richard Noggin]

10 hours ago, Billl said:

Let’s say that Shakir gets twice as many targets and manages to gain twice as many yards and quadruple his touchdowns.  That puts him at what Diggs produced last year.

 

Let’s also say that Kincaid gets 20% more targets and increases his yardage by 20% while tripling his touchdowns.  That puts him at what Davis produced last year.

 

Now let’s say that there’s still enough targets for Samuel to maintain his production from last year.  That puts him at what Shakir produced last year.  

 

That leaves Kincaid’s production from last year to be replaced by Coleman just to get back to even.

 

That’s the roadmap.  It’s possible, but it’s going to require everything to go perfectly including the backs to still contribute 650+ yards receiving.  

 

Logical breakdown except that specific guys don't need to replace specific guys' production. The entirety of the Bills' receiving depth chart will have opportunities to contribute over the course of 17 games. That's WRs, TEs, and RBs. Saying Coleman has to slot into Kincaid's prior year's production is so arbitrary. 

 

But your post DOES offer an illuminating receiving projection and comparison for the optimistic fans to consider in order to more critically consider their perspectives. It just doesn't have to play out any ONE certain way. 

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I do disagree:  Ty Johnson isn't in "year 2"--he's entering his 6th year on his 3rd team and he has about 1000 career yards rushing.  In fact, the Bills couldn't find anything for him to do Offensively last year, despite no real RB2 to compete with--he's a Bills zero so far.  Davis is a complete unknown as he hasn't taken a snap in a real game yet. So far, he's indistinguishable from Frank Gore Jr.  Why would you claim they are a big "upgrade" despite this?

 

I started to type something, but realized there's only one appropriate response:

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Sir..

 

 

 

Touche...

 

And he might at that. But the 2 of them almost certainly will in their production 

3 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Going into the season expecting to replicate what Mahomes and KC did with subpar receivers isn’t much of a plan. If it’s that viable there wouldn’t be an explosion of receivers contracts in the league. 

 

All those other teams don't have Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen. 

[transplantbillsfan]

53 minutes ago, Punching Bag said:

 

Gabe Davis was largely responsible for such good run and pass game performance - he was blocking making space for RBs and in bunch formations he was creating space for WRs.     Gabe Davis caught 163 balls for 2,730 yards and 27 touchdowns for Bills mostly from Josh Allen and will be hard to replace.  He also works hard during offseason which last year was mostly making himself more physical,  He also stays healthy which is something Bills need.  Gabe Davis is gone because Bills could not afford him and Jacksonville needed someone solid.

 

And we replaced Gabe with 2 guys who have those same strengths and better hands.

[26TrapDraw]

Wish the offense was the issue

[Richard Noggin]

2 minutes ago, 26TrapDraw said:

Wish the offense was the issue

 

Disagree emphatically. 

 

If the offense is the issue, then you're at best the 2022 & 2023 (and hopefully the 2024) NY Jets. 

 

If the 2024 Bills' offense is "the issue," then we're cooked. A Josh Allen offense cannot be the lesser side of the ball unless somehow Bobby Babich's unrivaled genius suddenly catapults his defense to the top of DVOA and NFL rankings down the stretch and throughout the playoffs, even against elite QBs. 

 

You wish the Bills offense was worse than their defense? That's bonkers. 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

All those other teams don't have Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen. 

Mahomes and KC made it to two Super Bowls with a dynamic receiving corp then made it to another two after they replaced those guys with jag’s. So yes other teams don’t have Mahomes. 
 

Allen and the Bills case aren’t the same. They have not made it to any Super Bowls with a much better receiving corp than what they’re rolling with this season. To expect the same success as KC with mediocre receivers just because of Allen is misguided. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10021509-khalil-shakir-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-boise-state-wr

POSITIVES

— Good route-runner who can operate from the slot and outside. Consistently gets his depth and understands how to use leverage to win.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Khalil-Shakir-WR-BoiseState

Scouting Report: Strengths

-Knows how to beet press corners with leverage and excellent foot speed

-Provides a good element of versatility - played both in the slot and outside

-Often used on deep routes, getting separation down the sideline or over the middle on crossing routes by extending his arms rather than pure speed

 

These are just a couple, but plenty of film buffs who watch the film agree Shakir can be an effective outside WR.  Ironically enough, much of his scouting report resembles Diggs's scouting report coming out of college, when most felt he could play either inside or outside, but would be most effective on the inside in the NFL.

 

Okay. Bleacher Report and Draftbuzz? That is what you have. 

 

Yea I will take my own film study over both of those. 

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Mahomes and KC made it to two Super Bowls with a dynamic receiving corp then made it to another two after they replaced those guys with jag’s. So yes other teams don’t have Mahomes. 
 

Allen and the Bills case aren’t the same. They have not made it to any Super Bowls with a much better receiving corp than what they’re rolling with this season. To expect the same success as KC with mediocre receivers just because of Allen is misguided. 

 

Allen is the only QB in the NFL comparable to Mahomes. It's not misguided 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Okay. Bleacher Report and Draftbuzz? That is what you have. 

 

Yea I will take my own film study over both of those. 

 

Joe Marino. I know Dane Brugler said it but I couldn't pull up the Beast from that year.

 

Here's a quote from Daniel Jeremiah on him:

Enough good can equal great. While Shakir does not stand out in any one area, the Boise State receiver meets every baseline when it comes to his size, athleticism and college production.

 

That's 5. I'm sorry. With all due respect, those guys have more scouting credibility than you.

Edited August 22 by transplantbillsfan