JA makes TB12’s and Manning’s top five QB list

[C.Biscuit97]

  On 8/21/2024 at 6:51 AM, GunnerBill said:

The way Manning phrased it about Herbert though I do understand what he is saying. I think he said "as talented as any of 'em" and while I don't necessarily agree he is as talented as Mahomes or Allen I think he is more talented than anyone else. I don't think the problem with Herbert that keeps him from being truly in the elite conversation is talent. I think it is heart and mentality. 

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Herbert is definitely of one those guys other qbs love because he’s so talented. I remember other qbs used to love Wentz because he could make those wow plays. Herbert is much better than Wentz but he does seem to get a pass for the Chargers being so meh. The Chargers will be really tough this year with Herbert having to do less. They will be a tough out. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

  On 8/21/2024 at 2:54 AM, 90sBills said:

Herbert? What’s wrong with Manning?

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  On 8/21/2024 at 2:57 AM, GoBills808 said:

Herbert😂😂

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That's the difference, Peyton is from the south so he listens better.  He was asked to name 5 so he named 5.   Herbert based on pure talent probably deserves that #5 spot and who else would you pick?  I wouldn't give it to Stroud based on one year, need to see consistently.

[Bills Fan in MD]

Any list without Nathan Peterman is not worth my time.

[Gregg]

  On 8/21/2024 at 1:01 PM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

That's the difference, Peyton is from the south so he listens better.  He was asked to name 5 so he named 5.   Herbert based on pure talent probably deserves that #5 spot and who else would you pick?  I wouldn't give it to Stroud based on one year, need to see consistently.

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If he can stay healthy then I could see maybe Rodgers in the #5 spot unless you think his play has declined to the point where he is in the 5 - 10 range. 

[thenorthremembers]

Anyone who doesnt have him in their top five is either extremely stupid or has a grudge against him.    He is the second best QB in the league, and the gap between he and Mahomes is smaller than the gap between him and number 3.  

 

Edited August 21, 2024 by thenorthremembers

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

  On 8/21/2024 at 1:07 PM, Gregg said:

 

If he can stay healthy then I could see maybe Rodgers in the #5 spot unless you think his play has declined to the point where he is in the 5 - 10 range. 

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Well yeah guess am surprised they didn't include Rogers if for nothing else an honorary spot.

[Blackbeard]

Strong argument that Allen is top.

 

This whole narrative about not winning a SB is bunk.   A LOT of other things play into that.  Surrounding personnel, injuries, coaching, etc.   

 

You match up Mahomes and Allen strictly on talent and athleticism, i'm picking Allen all day.

[finn]

  On 8/21/2024 at 12:33 PM, The Jokeman said:

and Lamar isn't a great passer. 

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Agreed. Allen is almost as effective a runner (he has a lot more size) and a far superior passer than Lamar. I'd put Stroud and Stafford ahead of Lamar, along with the usual suspects. 

[uninja]

  On 8/21/2024 at 1:26 PM, finn said:

Agreed. Allen is almost as effective a runner (he has a lot more size) and a far superior passer than Lamar. I'd put Stroud and Stafford ahead of Lamar, along with the usual suspects. 

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I don't think Stafford is half the athlete that Lamar is imo (at least not anymore). You can say what you will but scrambling, keeping plays alive and using your legs is an integral part of QB play these days. Stroud just doesn't have the history to be considered, maybe in a year or two that'll change.

 

I agree that Mahomes and Allen are basically 1A and 1B and then it drops off, but Lamar is definitely a top 5 QB.

[Logic]

Can't watch at work atm.

I've seen Peyton's clip, but who does Brady list and what does he say about Josh?

[Gregg]

I would say Mahomes, Allen and Burrow are the top 3. Filling spots 4 and 5 could be from Jackson, Herbert, Rodgers, Dak, Tua, Stroud to name some.

 

For me it would be 

 

1. Mahomes

2. Allen

3. Burrow

4. Jackson

5. Rodgers if healthy. If not healthy then Herbert.

[TheFunPolice]

After spending 2 decades rooting against him, I am shocked to find that I actually enjoy listening to Brady discuss football. I think he'll actually be great as a broadcaster. 

 

He has this friendly but edgy persona that makes him interesting. Hopefully he keeps that in the booth. 

 

I also like Peyton for the same reasons. They have a lot in common in terms of how they discuss players and games, they just go about it in their own ways. 

 

It's fun for fans to see these guys still involved with the game too.  

 

My Top 5 (based on 2024, not past performances necessarily):

 

Mahomes

Allen 

Jackson 

Stroud 

Burrow 

 

Honorable mentions: Tua, Stafford, Goff 

 

I'm not sold on Jordan Love yet. I saw him look pretty mediocre to bad last season before he caught fire. Stroud, on the other hand, just came out looking great and only got better, and he was a rookie. That's why I put him in there and not Love. 

 

Tua puts up insane numbers in that offense. Gotta give him credit. 

 

Stafford and Goff are both tough and both gamers who rise to the occasion in big games. 

 

Herbert just doesn't impress me. Not saying he's awful but he's just never struck me as a great QB. So inconsistent and also injury prone. 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2024 by TheFunPolice

[US Egg]

Herbert’s still in hype mode. He’s not a top 5 lock. 

[Saxum]

  On 8/21/2024 at 2:48 AM, BillsFan619 said:

The funny thing is Brady was pushed to give five but he stuck with four.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

 

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so you not need to hear terrible sound two lists:

 

 

[dave mcbride]

  On 8/21/2024 at 12:29 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

My biggest knock on him is in game lulls. Particularly third quarter. His passer rating is 13 points lower second half than first. It has been a recurring thing with him. He is pretty good right at the end of games in the clutch but otherwise his 2nd half performance is a drop off. I've seen him sleep walk through 3rd quarters. 

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Meh ... Allen had a first-quarter rating of 78.0 last season and a third-quarter rating of 75.8 in 2022. Everyone has some variation across quarters. Seems like a weak basis to criticize him. I go back to the terrible defenses and head coaching he's had to suffer through. Brandon Staley is an idiot as a head coach. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2023/12/14/24000764/brandon-staley-chargers-blown-leads-retrospective

[GunnerBill]

  On 8/21/2024 at 2:32 PM, dave mcbride said:

Meh ... Allen had a first-quarter rating of 78.0 last season and a third-quarter rating of 75.8 in 2022. Everyone has some variation across quarters. Seems like a weak basis to criticize him. I go back to the terrible defenses and head coaching he's had to suffer through. Brandon Staley is an idiot as a head coach. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2023/12/14/24000764/brandon-staley-chargers-blown-leads-retrospective

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Oh Staley is an idiot. But I don't think the third quarter thing is just natural variation with Herbert, it has been his weakest quarter for the past 3 seasons consistently and pretty clearly. But I didn't come at this numbers first I came at it eye test first and was like "man I have seen this movie before with him" in the middle of last season and when I dug into it the numbers bore it out. That's got to be a mentality, concentration, personality thing. I dunno if he has the makeup to be as great as his physical talent could allow. 

[Success]

C'mon, Manning.

 

[Alphadawg7]

This is make or break year for Burrow IMHO to remain in the top 4 conversation.  There is a lot to like about Burrow, don't get me wrong.  But he leans on his receivers more than anyone on the list where he throws a lot of 50/50 balls.  Last year he wasn't playing well before going down for the season either.  His playoff numbers are pedestrian and it was a team effort that got them to a SB where they lost with the ball in his hands.  

 

Not saying he isn't a top 10 QB regardless...but if he wants to hold onto his top 4 position, he needs to have a great season and most importantly stay healthy.  

[AlfaBill]

  On 8/21/2024 at 1:26 PM, finn said:

Agreed. Allen is almost as effective a runner (he has a lot more size) and a far superior passer than Lamar. I'd put Stroud and Stafford ahead of Lamar, along with the usual suspects. 

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Lamar sucks

[finn]

  On 8/22/2024 at 5:44 AM, AlfaBill said:

Lamar sucks

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He's electric and fascinating to watch, but no way has he ever been close to MVP quality. I agree with those who see a strong bias against Allen, who is a far more effective runner than Mahomes and a far more effective passer than Lamar, but who is white and has made "expert" evaluations look stupid. The white bias (I think) is a mostly unconscious correction of years of bias against black players at QB. It was BS then and it's BS now. Allen is the most talented quarterback the league has ever seen, with the size and physicality of Cam Newton and the creativity and drive of, yes, Mahomes. Give him weapons, protection, and a bold coach, and he'll win for you every year.