Receivers the Bills could go after?

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 8/19/2024 at 4:46 PM, thenorthremembers said:

Today:

Hunter Renfrow

Michael Thomas 

JuJu Smith Schuster

 

Likely Available Next Week:

Denzel Mims

Phillip Dorsett

Allen Robinson

Isaiah Hodgins

Dante Pettis

Martavis Bryant 

Tre'Quan Smith

Chris Conley

 

Pickings are slim. 

This is embarrassing. Absolutely no excuse for walking into this season with our current crop of WRs... total fail in Josh's prime.

[Comebackkid]

23 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Just what we need, another WR who feels cheated and demands more money.

Can't wait....

he said wr not ex wife 

23 hours ago, HOUSE said:

 

 

Edited August 20 by Comebackkid

[NastyNateSoldiers]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think they really like their receiving core and have very high hopes this year. Watson also really struggles fo stay healthy. 

He's been working on strengthening his Hammy's this off-season says he's in great shape and the injuries should be past him. Maybe the Packers don't want to take any chances if he's healthy they can trade him for something before he gets injured again. Plus he's in his 3rd season he can be asking for a new deal soon. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I think Kincaid could be kind of scary if he takes a next step and has a bigger role (both of which I see as likely). Maybe he's not technically a WR - but he kind of is.  Almost how Kelce is w/ KC.

 

Shakir might not be 'scary' in the traditional sense, but he's a playmaker and can hold it down as a top target in the WR group.

 

Kincaid is going to be a monster but it’s hard for a TE (or big wr) to be a guy that threatens teams deep.  I also think without that Diggs and Davis threats (I know fans love pretending guys suck once they leave but defenses paid attention to those 2 guys), Shakir is going to be more a possession type wr (I would guess he is 2nd in catches this year) and not a guy that threatens defense vertically as well. 
 

we have some solid 3 and 4 type guys. Problem is they are going to be counted on as 1 and 2s. Obviously, Keon is the wildcard but that’s asking a lot. Totally believe this can be a good offense but I think it’s going to be limiting some of the things that can make Allen so dangerous, like the deep ball or threats that loose up the defenses for him to get big gains in the run game. 
 

that said, I still think this is Allen’s best shot at mvp. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Thanks. I agree with what you say here as well.

The only argument people seem to be able to offer in rebuttal is "well, this year is a reset year anyway, and NEXT year they'll be making some noise!". Which, okay, fine. But as @HappyDays pointed out, if that IS the path they've chosen to take, then it would've made all the sense in the world to get a few young receivers in our building THIS year, have them get their growing pains out of the way THIS year, and then NEXT year they'd be ready to "make some noise" along with the rest of the roster. Instead, even if the Bills draft another WR or two next year, they'll be rookies, and we'll be hearing "we can't expect them to fully contribute until 2026."

At the end of the day, I realize that you can't fill every need every offseason. You have to choose where to attack roster improvement, where to concentrate your spending and draft pick allocation. Just once, I wanted them to make wide receiver the TOP priority in the offseason, even if it meant steady vets and not superstars, as you say, and a couple draft picks. We've seen what happens when they focus their attention elsewhere and "get by" at WR. It hasn't gotten the results we want. I was/am ready to see what would happen if they loaded up the WR room and were willing to "get by" at other positions, and this year was a great draft class to do it with, but they chose not to.

Frustrating.

Back to back seasons the Bills used their first pick in the draft on a pass catcher.  How has it not been a “top priority” when they have used literally their most valuable offseason asset for a weapon to catch passes for Allen the last 2 seasons?

 

No one would be saying this had Bills made a small move up for Brian Thomas Jr.  So, IMHO It’s not that they didn’t prioritize it, it’s because you and others don’t like the Keon pick and haven’t gotten over it yet.
 

Let’s be real, the vast majority of the panic and negativity is coming from people who didn’t like the Keon pick and don’t think he can be a WR1 …and it’s coming before he’s played an NFL snap…and 90% of that doubt is coming off a 40 time that really doesn’t matter and that he significantly improved when he ran it again.    

Edited August 20 by Alphadawg7

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

This is embarrassing. Absolutely no excuse for walking into this season with our current crop of WRs... total fail in Josh's prime.

They will be ok and will have plenty of money to bring in better players next year.   Gotta ride the wave man.  It happens when you pay your QB.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Still it is plenty to win a bunch of games but like KC last year, the margin of error becomes so slim.

 

 

The parameters used to draw comparisons between the passing game weapons the Bills currently possess and those that the Chiefs took into 2023 are SOOOOOOO stretched that basically almost every team can make a similar claim.

 

And the Chiefs then finished 3rd in pass attempts and 6th in yardage.......outstanding pass game production......so MOST such comps would be utter bullish!t.

 

I mean in 2022 MVS literally had more receiving yards than any of Kincaid, Shakir or Samuel did last season.  

 

And Kincaid coming off 672 yards and 2 TD's is supposed to be a full comp for Kelce coming off 1338 and 12.

 

Yeah, if you overlook that the Chiefs returning players were a lot more productive and that they had three 1st and 2nd round prospects from the 2 most recent drafts fighting it out for spots it's JUST like the Chiefs last year.  

 

[Logic]

53 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Back to back seasons the Bills used their first pick in the draft on a pass catcher.  How has it not been a “top priority” when they have used literally their most valuable offseason asset for a weapon to catch passes for Allen the last 2 seasons?

 

No one would be saying this had Bills made a small move up for Brian Thomas Jr.  So, IMHO It’s not that they didn’t prioritize it, it’s because you and others don’t like the Keon pick and haven’t gotten over it yet.
 

Let’s be real, the vast majority of the panic and negativity is coming from people who didn’t like the Keon pick and don’t think he can be a WR1 …and it’s coming before he’s played an NFL snap…and 90% of that doubt is coming off a 40 time that really doesn’t matter and that he significantly improved when he ran it again.    

If you truly feel that surrounding Josh Allen with prime weaponry in the passing game has been a priority for this organization the past few seasons, then so be it. 

I disagree. 

I also disagree with the notion that Coleman's 40 time is the only reason people didn't like the pick, but there's really no need to re-litigate that issue at this point in time. It's all been discussed ad nauseum.


 

[Alphadawg7]

44 minutes ago, Logic said:

If you truly feel that surrounding Josh Allen with prime weaponry in the passing game has been a priority for this organization the past few seasons, then so be it. 

I disagree. 

I also disagree with the notion that Coleman's 40 time is the only reason people didn't like the pick, but there's really no need to re-litigate that issue at this point in time. It's all been discussed ad nauseum.


 

It’s ok to disagree, we all just have opinions right now.  To be honest, I think that it comes down to those like you felt like they should have gone over the top in the priority…basically meaning ignoring other holes on the team to put even more resources into the pass catchers.  But they still made a weapon for Josh the first priority the last 2 seasons and extended Diggs to still be here until things had to change this offseason with him.  
 

Offense overall has been the priority 3 years now…facts are the facts…Beane has prioritized the offense the last 3 years overall in terms of premium draft picks.  I mean one draft was all offense except 2 picks.  And in that process he’s drafted Cook, Shakir, Kincaid, and Keon…our current core of young weapons with only Shakir not being an early pick.
 

As far as Keon goes, 40 time is categorically the biggest complaint on Keon around here even if it’s not yours. I mean there is even a thread dedicated to slow jokes that also now spills into any thread where Keon is discussed.  Maybe you specifically have more complaints/concerns, but even you I doubt has as much skepticism had Keons first 40 time been faster at combine (and it was a lot better at his pro day).
 

And make no mistake…40 time is not remotely as important as the vast majority of this board makes it out to be.   Now I am not saying you, but the vast majority of those constantly saying Keon can’t get open literally have zero clue how a WR gets open and just spout random false things to support their bias. 
 

Silly part is, none of this means anything at all.  It means we don’t know what Keon will do, just many of us are not ready to declare the kid a bust, wrong pick, etc before he’s taken an NFL snap.  Just like I’m not gonna sit here and tell you he’s the next great WR either.  
 

I like his potential because I like his tools, elite traits, and the mindset and commitment to be great.  I like betting on those guys…not guys like Leggette who so many wished we took who already said he wished he studied harder in camp.  Give me the guys that will leave it all out on the field trying to reach their potential like Keon and Shakir all day over guys who don’t have that gear.

 

Cheers…go bills 

Edited August 21 by Alphadawg7

[BufBills83]

22 hours ago, Logic said:

On sheer talent, I'd take Brown/Worthy/Rice in a heartbeat, but to each their own.

Right, because Samuel getting turf toe is the ONLY issue with this group. Nevermind the lack of depth, nevermind the fact that the Bills are planning to trot out Mack freakin Hollins as Josh Allen's WR2 in the year 2024. Sure, it's ONLY injuries that are the problem.

 

In a heartbeat?  Why?  Nothing I have seen from any of these receivers would leave me to believe that either group is way better than the other, talent or otherwise.

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s ok to disagree, we all just have opinions right now.  To be honest, I think that it comes down to those like you felt like they should have gone over the top in the priority…basically meaning ignoring other holes on the team to put even more resources into the pass catchers.  But they still made a weapon for Josh the first priority the last 2 seasons and extended Diggs to still be here until things had to change this offseason with him.  
 

Offense overall has been the priority 3 years now…facts are the facts…Beane has prioritized the offense the last 3 years overall in terms of premium draft picks.  I mean one draft was all offense except 2 picks.  And in that process he’s drafted Cook, Shakir, Kincaid, and Keon…our current core of young weapons with only Shakir not being an early pick.
 

As far as Keon goes, 40 time is categorically the biggest complaint on Keon around here even if it’s not yours. I mean there is even a thread dedicated to slow jokes that also now spills into any thread where Keon is discussed.  Maybe you specifically have more complaints/concerns, but even you I doubt has as much skepticism had Keons first 40 time been faster at combine (and it was a lot better at his pro day).
 

And make no mistake…40 time is not remotely as important as the vast majority of this board makes it out to be.   Now I am not saying you, but the vast majority of those constantly saying Keon can’t get open literally have zero clue how a WR gets open and just spout random false things to support their bias. 
 

Silly part is, none of this means anything at all.  It means we don’t know what Keon will do, just many of us are not ready to declare the kid a bust, wrong pick, etc before he’s taken an NFL snap.  Just like I’m not gonna sit here and tell you he’s the next great WR either.  
 

I like his potential because I like his tools, elite traits, and the mindset and commitment to be great.  I like betting on those guys…not guys like Leggette who so many wished we took who already said he wished he studied harder in camp.  Give me the guys that will leave it all out on the field trying to reach their potential like Keon and Shakir all day over guys who don’t have that gear.

 

Cheers…go bills 

 

Coleman's 40 time was far and away the most complained about trait of his.  I don't remember much of anything else that was complained about with him.  What would there be?  He was good at pretty much everything else in college.

6 hours ago, Success said:

 

I can't disagree w/ that.  I'd love to see us have at least a top 10 WR corps.

 

Personally, I don't mind the focus on RB - we need a running game, and we're still not there yet.  I really like what I saw out of Davis, and think he and Cook can potentially be the best tandem we've had under JA.  We'll see, but that would improve our offense as much as an upgrade at the 3 or 4 receiver position.

 

And I almost always rationalize lack of investment in the WR position by looking at what the Pats did for 15+ years while they were going to Super Bowls every other year.  It was so rare to see them make that investment. Moss stands out.  You can say guys like Welker & Edelman were great, but they were both late rounders that I'd guess we would hardly know if they played for a lot of other teams.

 

 

Ironically, when the Pats got Moss, they didn't win a SB with him.

[BufBills83]

On 8/19/2024 at 7:49 PM, Billl said:

Yes by a significant margin.

 

To address the OP, Treylon Burks, Jahan Dotson, Terrace Marshall, and Laviska Shenault are all potential reclamation projects that could likely be had for a reasonable price.

 

Please explain to me why Worthy, Brown and Rice are "significantly better" than Samuel, Coleman and Shakir.  This just isn't true.

[Logic]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s ok to disagree, we all just have opinions right now.  To be honest, I think that it comes down to those like you felt like they should have gone over the top in the priority…basically meaning ignoring other holes on the team to put even more resources into the pass catchers.  But they still made a weapon for Josh the first priority the last 2 seasons and extended Diggs to still be here until things had to change this offseason with him.  
 

Offense overall has been the priority 3 years now…facts are the facts…Beane has prioritized the offense the last 3 years overall in terms of premium draft picks.  I mean one draft was all offense except 2 picks.  And in that process he’s drafted Cook, Shakir, Kincaid, and Keon…our current core of young weapons with only Shakir not being an early pick.
 

As far as Keon goes, 40 time is categorically the biggest complaint on Keon around here even if it’s not yours. I mean there is even a thread dedicated to slow jokes that also now spills into any thread where Keon is discussed.  Maybe you specifically have more complaints/concerns, but even you I doubt has as much skepticism had Keons first 40 time been faster at combine (and it was a lot better at his pro day).
 

And make no mistake…40 time is not remotely as important as the vast majority of this board makes it out to be.   Now I am not saying you, but the vast majority of those constantly saying Keon can’t get open literally have zero clue how a WR gets open and just spout random false things to support their bias. 
 

Silly part is, none of this means anything at all.  It means we don’t know what Keon will do, just many of us are not ready to declare the kid a bust, wrong pick, etc before he’s taken an NFL snap.  Just like I’m not gonna sit here and tell you he’s the next great WR either.  
 

I like his potential because I like his tools, elite traits, and the mindset and commitment to be great.  I like betting on those guys…not guys like Leggette who so many wished we took who already said he wished he studied harder in camp.  Give me the guys that will leave it all out on the field trying to reach their potential like Keon and Shakir all day over guys who don’t have that gear.

 

Cheers…go bills 

According to Overthecap.com,  among all teams in the NFL, the Chiefs allocated the 3rd, 4th, and 3rd most cap dollars to their offense the past three years.

During the same time period, the Bills allocated the 24th, 12th, and 26th most cap dollars on offense. 

It's a big disparity. Quite simply, the Bills consistently spend a lot more on defense than they do on offense. 

In terms of draft picks, they Bills have NEVER drafted a 1st round receiver. Yes, I realize they traded a 1st round pick for Stefon Diggs, but it doesn't change the fact that since 2017, not a single 1st round receiver has been selected by the Bills. That seems strange to me. They finally COULD have selected one this year, but even then, they traded down, watched three other teams take receivers, THEN picked one in the second round.

Yes, they spent their top pick on an offensive skill player two years in a row, but only after a streak of using their top picks on a CB, DE, DE, and DT.

If "over-investing" is what you'd call what I wanted them to do at the WR position, then fine. Sure. Let them "over-invest" in that position. Lord knows they've been over-investing on the DL for years now, with mostly mediocre to slightly above average results to show for it.

As for Coleman: speaking only for myself, it was not Coleman's speed, but his lack of separation skills that worried me about him as a prospect. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Matt Harmons Reception Perception profiles, but they're a great predictive metric for WRs, and they weren't kind to Coleman. Everything from advanced analytics like YPRR and aDOT and dominator rating and breakout age, to his best single season receiving yardage production in college not topping 800 yards, to the eyeball test of watching his "all snaps" videos on YouTube across various games...all of it put up red flags for me. I, too, love his work ethic, his will to be great, his personality, and his physical traits. In terms of his actual production profile and how it portends to success as a pro, I had and still have doubts. I also agree that his best usage in the pros -- at least to start out -- would likely be similar to the way the Chiefs used Rashee Rice last year, playing him from the slot where he can get free releases rather than sticking him at X and forcing him to get off the press. I feel they're setting him up to fail somewhat, or at least not leaning into his strengths as a player. It's so much more than just his 40 time that gives me pause.

But annnyyywaaayy....all of that constitutes the "re-litigating a well-discussed topic" that I mentioned earlier. We all just have opinions, as you say, and we're all ROOTING for Coleman and the Bills WR corps to succeed, even if our respective confidence levels in his and their ability to do so differ. 

Cheers and Go Bills 🍺

 

Edited August 21 by Logic

[TBBills Fan]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

If you truly feel that surrounding Josh Allen with prime weaponry in the passing game has been a priority for this organization the past few seasons, then so be it. 

I disagree. 

I also disagree with the notion that Coleman's 40 time is the only reason people didn't like the pick, but there's really no need to re-litigate that issue at this point in time. It's all been discussed ad nauseum.


 

Here's one point to consider.  The last few years the bills have been trying to run it back with the same crew plus an addition here or there and draft picks.  So a lot of our resources went to keeping the boys together and plugging apparent holes.  

 

Obviously, in hindsight, not the best move since we did not win a Superbowl.  I don't think it's about a conscious effort to not give Josh weapons, it was OBD keeping the gang together, tieing up the cash with that and uses draft picks to fill holes.  

[Scott7975]

If Beane was going to spend big on a WR, he would have done it long ago.  Injuries might force his hand but I wouldn't expect anything other than a fringe player.  He isn't signing any big contracts or trading any big draft picks.  I mean I would love to get a big time receiver in here but we all just need to realize it aint happening.

[Billl]

3 hours ago, BufBills83 said:

 

Please explain to me why Worthy, Brown and Rice are "significantly better" than Samuel, Coleman and Shakir.  This just isn't true.

Well Rashee Rice had 900 yards and 7 TDs last season and then went on to set the record for postseason receptions by a rookie.  Shakir and Samuel combined had 1200 yards and 6 TDs. Worthy was the 5th WR taken while Coleman was the 8th.  Brown’s put up more career catches, yards, and TDs in his 5 year career than Samuel has in his 7 year career.

 

It’s also worth mentioning that Rice, Brown, and Worthy are all different types of WRs whose styles complement one another while Shakir, Samuel, and Coleman are all primarily slot players.  The Chiefs’ trio isn’t elite, but they’re average to above average.  Vegas has the O/U on passing yards for Mahomes set at 4250 with 32.5 TDs.  Josh’s is 3800 and 27.  Some of that’s Travis Kelce, but Buffalo throws to their RBs more.  If you’re so sure I’m wrong, Vegas is ripe for the picking.

[GoBills!]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The parameters used to draw comparisons between the passing game weapons the Bills currently possess and those that the Chiefs took into 2023 are SOOOOOOO stretched that basically almost every team can make a similar claim.

 

And the Chiefs then finished 3rd in pass attempts and 6th in yardage.......outstanding pass game production......so MOST such comps would be utter bullish!t.

 

I mean in 2022 MVS literally had more receiving yards than any of Kincaid, Shakir or Samuel did last season.  

 

And Kincaid coming off 672 yards and 2 TD's is supposed to be a full comp for Kelce coming off 1338 and 12.

 

Yeah, if you overlook that the Chiefs returning players were a lot more productive and that they had three 1st and 2nd round prospects from the 2 most recent drafts fighting it out for spots it's JUST like the Chiefs last year.  

 

Kelce 2nd year put up like 850 yards and 5 tds. I’d expect Kincaid to get those kind of numbers, not sure he will break 1k I see lots of running in our offense this year and let Josh hand off more than ever and that’s ok. 

[damj]

I think at this point we're stuck with what we have. See what we have in Shakir and develop Coleman this year. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, GoBills! said:

Kelce 2nd year put up like 850 yards and 5 tds. I’d expect Kincaid to get those kind of numbers, not sure he will break 1k I see lots of running in our offense this year and let Josh hand off more than ever and that’s ok. 

 

I could definitely see Kincaid putting up 2014 Kelce numbers..........but it's just not relevant to the discussion about this years Kincaid being expected to rival the impact of the 1338 yard 12 TD All-Pro level 2022 version of Kelce.   Even if he improves to year 2 Kelce level having nearly 500 yards and 7 TD's less is a ton.

 

And to my point about it being irrelevant........the 2014 Chiefs passing game was so bad that they are the only NFL team in the last 60 years to not throw a single TD pass to a WR all season.    Finished 29th in the league in passing yards with just 3100 total.    

[Thurman#1]

On 8/20/2024 at 5:39 AM, Desert Bills Fan said:

Brandon Aiyuk and CeeDee Lamb are not satisfied with contract offers, so there is still a chance. Rework Josh’s contract again to get some more cap space?

is there a chance at the:

Lions Jameson Williams?
Rams Tutu Atwell?

Chargers Quentin Johnston?

Raiders DaVonte Adam’s?

 

others?
 

 

 

 

 

 

What you've got there are guys who are far too expensive for us or guys whose teams will not give them up (Jameson Williams? Really? You're better than this.)

 

Funny, that's what all the other threads suggested too.

 

Believe it or not, people have thought of re-working Josh's contract before. The Bills do not want to do that, because it turns their foreseeable future into more and more and more cap frustration, every season into a new one like this year. Dig in, bear the pain this year and watch the team be in reasonable cap shape going forward.

 

There are guys we can get. But they are likely to be the types you folks don't want. They'll be affordable, available and realistic ... they're not going to set imaginations on fire.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The parameters used to draw comparisons between the passing game weapons the Bills currently possess and those that the Chiefs took into 2023 are SOOOOOOO stretched that basically almost every team can make a similar claim.

 

And the Chiefs then finished 3rd in pass attempts and 6th in yardage.......outstanding pass game production......so MOST such comps would be utter bullish!t.

 

I mean in 2022 MVS literally had more receiving yards than any of Kincaid, Shakir or Samuel did last season.  

 

And Kincaid coming off 672 yards and 2 TD's is supposed to be a full comp for Kelce coming off 1338 and 12.

 

Yeah, if you overlook that the Chiefs returning players were a lot more productive and that they had three 1st and 2nd round prospects from the 2 most recent drafts fighting it out for spots it's JUST like the Chiefs last year.  

 

 

 

Stretched parameters? That's nonsense. I mean, like pig manure type of nonsense. Utter and complete.

 

In fact, "The parameters used to draw comparisons between the passing game weapons the Bills currently possess and those that the Chiefs took into 2023 are" extremely damn reasonable. Can every team make a similar claim? No.

 

Pretty much every team has a WR room every bit as good as the Chiefs did. Or better. They were a functional group with some rookies and very young guys who had a chance to develop and show out but hadn't done so yet. Most teams, nearly every team, can match that WR room without any stretch whatsoever.

 

Not every team has a Kelce, even an aging one likely to take a significant decline.

 

Not every team does. But we have Kincaid and he shows very likely to be that good.

 

You say, "I mean in 2022 MVS literally had more receiving yards than any of Kincaid, Shakir or Samuel did last season," is obviously spin, and not particularly good spin. It's tne same weak sauce so many have tried. Curtis Samuel has had four years when he was better than that year for MVS or about as good (627, 851, 656 and 613 compared to MVS's 2022 687). Samuel's best year in receiving yards was significantly better than MVS's best, 815 to 690.

 

Yeah, it's true that that year from MVS he was more productive than all three of Kincaid, Shakir or Samuel. That's true. MVS had 687, Shakir had 611 and Samuel's best year is significantly better than MVS's, better by more than MVS's 2022 season you're referring to was better than Kincaid's and Shakir's last season.

 

I can't blame you for the immensely weak arguments you're using here. They're all that's available for people making the dumb argument you're trying to make. That's the problem you have, you're making a dumb argument. It's not your fault there's such little and weak factual evidence to support that dumb argument. What's dumb is looking at that utter lack of genuinely strong arguments and still trying to make the case.

 

As for Kelce, yeah, his 2022 season was damn good, but he'd turned 33 during that season, and was set to turn 34 the next. He absolutely looked like he was due for a regression.  His last seven games that season he was significantly less productive.

 

 

 

Project his production from the first ten games of '22 into a whole season and you get a fantastic looking season. 855 yards and 11 TDs in ten games which extrapolates into a 17 game season of 1453 yards and 18.7 TDs. Insane.

 

But ...   in the last seven games his production, 483 yards and 1 touchdown in seven games (and that one came in game 11, none after that) projects out to 60.8 yards and 0.14 TDs per game and over a full season would have amounted to 1173 yards and 2.4 touchdowns. That's still good, but it's a major regression. And they hadn't cut his snap percentage or anything. He just watched his production take a major drop. Not to mention he'd be a year older the next year.

 

Again, first ten games extrapolated to a 1453 yard, 18.7 TD season, while the last seven games calculates out to 1173 yards and 24 TDs. His decline had already begun, and it would accelerate.

 

Still a good player even at that lower level, but he absolutely looked like they were going to start using him less in 2023 and that his age 34 season was probably going to show even more downside. This was anything but unpredictable.

 

Our pre-season weapons compare very well with the out look for KC's 2023 preseason. Yeah, they had Pat Mahomes. But we have Josh Allen.

 

 

Edited August 21 by Thurman#1