Receivers the Bills could go after?

[Kirby Jackson]

53 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think we have to see, and I think we have more weapons than you might imagine.  Samuel for example has been restricted by lack of good QB play, and Brady can use him all over the field.  Shakir is certainly intriguing given his finish last year.  And I think everyone agrees about Kincaid.  We’ll see a lot of motion, more play action, screens etc. based on the latter part of last year.
 

One last point about Josh.  People are worried about his prime but he’s got a lot of years ahead.  If we run the ball effectively and if Josh learns to slide quicker he’s got plenty of time to win a few.

I’m an Ohio State fan. I’ve seen as much, or more of Curtis Samuel than anyone on the board. I like the player a lot. He’s a poor man’s Deebo. They have spent the last few years trying to find that role with McKenzie and Harty. Samuel is an upgrade on both of them. He’s a nice weapon and good with the ball in his hands. He’s not an X. He never has been. That doesn’t mean that he won’t help the team. He just isn’t that boundary guy.

 

Shakir will outperform his fantasy projections. He’s now ranked between the 55th & 60th pick. I think that he will be closer to where Lockett was last year (79/894/5). I am pounding the over numbers on him early in the year. I’ll make money while he’s being undervalued. Even still, I do not see him ever as the number 1. I think that he could go on to have Lockett’s career and he will be a great fit if so. 
 

I am high on Kincaid. He has Pro Bowl upside. He could be 1,000 yard guy. He will be the top receiving threat. He’s a top 7 or so TE going into the season IMO. He has top 3 potential. Hopefully, he continues to draw mismatches. If teams view him as the top receiving threat, he will see his fair share of CBs. That’s a tough spot for any TE. 
 

I like Brady a lot. If you go back through this board, you’ll see that I wanted him running the offense in 2019 when he was like 28 years old. I lived in Louisiana at the time and watched him masterfully craft that LSU offense. We need to remember though that, while the scheme was brilliant, he had Burrow, Chase, Jefferson, CEH and Marshall. That’s 4 firsts and a 2nd. The talent was outstanding. He doesn’t have that now.

Edited September 5 by Kirby Jackson

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m an Ohio State fan. I’ve seen as much, or more of Curtis Samuel than anyone on the board. I like the player a lot. He’s a poor man’s Deebo. They have spent the last few years trying to find that role with McKenzie and Harty. Samuel is an upgrade on both of them. He’s a nice weapon and good with the ball in his hands. He’s not an X. He never has been. That doesn’t mean that he won’t help the team. He just isn’t that boundary guy.

 

Shakir will outperform his fantasy projections. He’s now ranked between the 55th & 60th pick. I think that he will be closer to where Lockett was last year (79/894/5). I am pounding the over numbers on him early in the year. I’ll make money while he’s being undervalued. Even still, I do not see him ever as the number 1. I think that he could go on to have Lockett’s career and he will be a great fit if so. 
 

I am high on Kincaid. He has Pro Bowl upside. He could be 1,000 yard guy. He will be the top receiving threat. He’s a top 7 or so TE going into the season IMO. He has top 3 potential. Hopefully, he continues to draw mismatches. If teams view him as the top receiving threat, he will see his fair share of CBs. That’s a tough spot for any TE. 
 

I like Brady a lot. If you go back through this board, you’ll see that I wanted him running the offense in 2019 when he was like 32 years old. I loved in Louisiana at the time and watched him masterfully craft that LSU offense. We need to remember though that, while the scheme was brilliant, he had Burrow, Chase, Jefferson, CEH and Marshall. That’s 4 firsts and a 2nd. The talent was outstanding. He doesn’t have that now.

Wasn’t Joe Brady just the passing coordinator at LSU?

 

I think we are all taking far too much credit out of the hands of that magnificent football mind Coach O.

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Wasn’t Joe Brady just the passing coordinator at LSU?

 

I think we are all taking far too much credit out of the hands of that magnificent football mind Coach O.

Kind of, but he ABSOLUTELY was the one running the offense. Ensminger was technically the OC in title but Brady ran the offense. It was like a Reid/Bieniemy situation with Ensminger as Bieniemy and Brady as Reid.

 

Brady was an offensive coach under Sean Payton prior. If you could imagine, in Louisiana, that meant a lot. Sean Payton is one of the greatest offensive minds of all-time. Brady was like 26 at the time.

Edited September 5 by Kirby Jackson

[FireChans]

40 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Kind of, but he ABSOLUTELY was the one running the offense. Ensminger was technically the OC in title but Brady ran the offense. It was like a Reid/Bieniemy situation with Ensminger as Bieniemy and Brady as Reid.

 

Brady was an offensive coach under Sean Payton prior. If you could imagine, in Louisiana, that meant a lot. Sean Payton is one of the greatest offensive minds of all-time. Brady was like 26 at the time.

That's very odd circumstance. You'd think the guy in charge would have the superior title.

 

IMO, Sean Payton's offensive genius rep is on the line the next season or two. If he flames out in Denver, I think it keeps him out of the HoF.

[Mikey152]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't necessarily dispute that. But to not even be thinking that there was a possibility and planning accordingly? Yea I think that was foolish. Beane clearly thought they could make it work. His mistake was he went all in on that hope.

It’s not just about thinking that…he needed it to work because trading or cutting Diggs would involve massive dead cap.

 

there weren’t a lot of realistic options on the market that can replace Diggs for what amounts to peanuts.

16 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's clear.at this moment you are absolutely confident in Curtis Samuel, Khalil Shakir, Mack Hollins, MVS, and Keon Coleman as a WR group.  And that an ensemble cast of them with Kincaid and Knox is not only sufficient...but better than people realize.  

 

Most are not and I'll file this post away for the regular season when it becomes (once again) abundantly clear that they are, collectively, a bottom of the barrel group and Josh Allen can't change that.  And Josh is excellent.  

 

 

They are if they're all slot-receivers. 

 

And it's looking like Samuel, Shakir, Coleman (if used correctly) are slot-receivers.  The others - Hollins and MVS - are not.   

You can put it right next to all the “Bernard is trash” and “Spencer Brown is the worst tackle in the league” receipts…

 

oh wait

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

It’s not just about thinking that…he needed it to work because trading or cutting Diggs would involve massive dead cap.

 

there weren’t a lot of realistic options on the market that can replace Diggs for what amounts to peanuts.

You can put it right next to all the “Bernard is trash” and “Spencer Brown is the worst tackle in the league” receipts…

 

oh wait

Or we could put it back next to the "Harty and Sherfield add another dimension to the offense" receipts. Or the "should we pay Gabe Davis now" receipts. Or the ....

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That's very odd circumstance. You'd think the guy in charge would have the superior title.

 

IMO, Sean Payton's offensive genius rep is on the line the next season or two. If he flames out in Denver, I think it keeps him out of the HoF.

I think they eventually called them co-offensive coordinators. Ensminger was Coach O’s guy. He was an experienced vet. Brady was basically boy genius. Brady walked on water that year. 

[Mikey152]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Or we could put it back next to the "Harty and Sherfield add another dimension to the offense" receipts. Or the "should we pay Gabe Davis now" receipts. Or the ....

I mean…be my guest, but you won’t find either of those from me.

[BillsVet]

25 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

It’s not just about thinking that…he needed it to work because trading or cutting Diggs would involve massive dead cap.

 

there weren’t a lot of realistic options on the market that can replace Diggs for what amounts to peanuts.

You can put it right next to all the “Bernard is trash” and “Spencer Brown is the worst tackle in the league” receipts…

 

oh wait

 

Keep falling back on the hyperbolic....which further confirms you lack the ability to make a coherent argument.    

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Mikey152 said:

It’s not just about thinking that…he needed it to work because trading or cutting Diggs would involve massive dead cap.

 

there weren’t a lot of realistic options on the market that can replace Diggs for what amounts to peanuts.

 

 

Yea but he knew before the 2023 draft. The cheap option was draft a guy in 2023 to takeover when I might have to let Diggs go in a year. And not a 5th round flier on a college underachiever who was cut after his rookie year.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea but he knew before the 2023 draft. The cheap option was draft a guy in 2023 to takeover when I might have to let Diggs go in a year. And not a 5th round flier on a college underachiever who was cut after his rookie year.

As much as I like Kincaid and have high hopes for him, I think the Bills 2023 and 2024 season looks far different with Jordan Addison in a Bills uni. 

[T master]

On 8/19/2024 at 4:39 PM, Desert Bills Fan said:

Brandon Aiyuk and CeeDee Lamb are not satisfied with contract offers, so there is still a chance. Rework Josh’s contract again to get some more cap space?

is there a chance at the:

Lions Jameson Williams?
Rams Tutu Atwell?

Chargers Quentin Johnston?

Raiders DaVonte Adam’s?

 

others?
 

 

 

 

 

And where do they get the money from to sign these players ?? Inquiring minds would like to know ...

[Kirby Jackson]

8 minutes ago, T master said:

 

And where do they get the money from to sign these players ?? Inquiring minds would like to know ...

Unless I’m really dumb, I don’t think that this is difficult to answer. You just keep redoing Josh’s contract whenever you need to. Just kick the can down the road for as long as you need to. 

[Mikey152]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

As much as I like Kincaid and have high hopes for him, I think the Bills 2023 and 2024 season looks far different with Jordan Addison in a Bills uni. 

When the dust settles, I think Kincaid will be regarded as a better player than Addison. I say that as a Pitt alum. 

 

Jordan is kind of a high floor, low ceiling guy. He works great as a flanker or slot, but he isn't gonna play X any more than Shakir or Samuel would.

Edited September 5 by Mikey152

[Mikey152]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea but he knew before the 2023 draft. The cheap option was draft a guy in 2023 to takeover when I might have to let Diggs go in a year. And not a 5th round flier on a college underachiever who was cut after his rookie year.

Maybe.

 

But clearly they were trying to run it back one more time in 2023. They drafted a pass catcher with their first pick, and Torrence in the second is a good player. From the Bills third round pick to the fifth where shorter was picked, 5 WR went off the board and I am not sure any of them are any better than Shorter. I guess you could argue they could have take Puka, but that is hindsight at its finest.

 

So maybe you wanted to trade up? For who?  How much does it cost? Are they better than Kincaid or Torrence?  Maybe you think Jalin Hyatt is the missing piece?

 

What about FA?  I think they tried. They could have signed OBJ or Hopkins, maybe...both expressed interest. But both wanted decent money...not bank breaking money, but good money. The type of money that either hamstrings you now or later. Beane has been very clear that he doesn't like to do that, so if your beef is that he didn't go all in on WR and either forgo other positions or tank a future season to do it, I hope you can at least see how not everyone sees that as a slam dunk choice like you make it out to be.

Edited September 5 by Mikey152

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Real question... Is Buffalo's combined WR # total the lowest all time?

 

0 - Coleman

1 - Samuel

10 - Shakir

13 - Hollins

15 - MVS

 

 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Torrence in the second is a good player

 

This remains to be seen. He had a poor preseason. But also he just plays guard, not a difficult position to fill. If I could swap him out for WR Jalin Hyatt, which is who I wanted with that pick when it came up last year, I would still take that deal now.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Maybe.

 

But clearly they were trying to run it back one more time in 2023. They drafted a pass catcher with their first pick, and Torrence in the second is a good player. From the Bills third round pick to the fifth where shorter was picked, 5 WR went off the board and I am not sure any of them are any better than Shorter. I guess you could argue they could have take Puka, but that is hindsight at its finest.

 

So maybe you wanted to trade up? For who?  How much does it cost? Are they better than Kincaid or Torrence?  Maybe you think Jalin Hyatt is the missing piece?

 

What about FA?  I think they tried. They could have signed OBJ or Hopkins, maybe...both expressed interest. But both wanted decent money...not bank breaking money, but good money. The type of money that either hamstrings you now or later. Beane has been very clear that he doesn't like to do that, so if your beef is that he didn't go all in on WR and either forgo other positions or tank a future season to do it, I hope you can at least see how not everyone sees that as a slam dunk choice like you make it out to be.

 

Puka's a lot like Shakir though (Nacua's bigger, Shakir's faster - both were gadgety players who projected as slot WRs), where i think they were looking for more of a boundary style player to potentially replace Gabe.  

 

I do think they both "got that dog" in them that they are hard to tackle though.  Nacua's a fun player to watch.  

Edited September 5 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[Mikey152]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This remains to be seen. He had a poor preseason. But also he just plays guard, not a difficult position to fill. If I could swap him out for WR Jalin Hyatt, which is who I wanted with that pick when it came up last year, I would still take that deal now.

At the end of the day, that seems to be the disconnect.

 

For the folks that are saying the Bills should have done more, the answer to "how" is usually some form of passing on a potentially better player per the Bills grades (Kincaid, Torrence, Bishop, Carter, Davis) at a different position, trading tons of draft capital for a trade up, or kicking the can down the road on the cap for a Vet WR.

 

I get that WR is important...but are you sure it's THAT important?

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Maybe you think Jalin Hyatt is the missing piece?

 

What about FA?  I think they tried. They could have signed OBJ or Hopkins, maybe...both expressed interest. But both wanted decent money...not bank breaking money, but good money. The type of money that either hamstrings you now or later. Beane has been very clear that he doesn't like to do that

 

Lol you're asking people to list realistic options, and you just rattled off three... I don't know what else there is to say. Missing out on Hopkins was incredibly dumb. Massive missed opportunity and there's really no excuse.

 

As to this part - "Beane has been very clear that he doesn't like to do that" - this has only been the case with WR. With regard to other positions, notably on defense, he has wasted millions of cap dollars on bloated contracts which has led us into the cap trouble we're in today.