Receivers the Bills could go after?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Process said:

I don't understand the trade. Were there character/work ethic concerns with Dotson? Why would they even be looking to trade him? Recent first round pick who has been somewhat productive. It's not like they are deep at WR. 

 

He has been bang average.

[Thurman#1]

7 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

If there was a downside to the Diggs trade, they thought it meant they didn't have to draft WR or be aggressive in UFA in 2021 and 2022.  Those decisions are a big reason why this is where they are now at WR...they weren't developing much there in those years.  

 

This makes me wonder whether the personnel teams, amateur and pro, are advocating for WRs and ignored or just focus harder elsewhere because they know what the bosses want.   

 

Regardless, even if they maneuver to get high enough to take a WR in next year's draft, I have doubts they'll get it right.  Because 1) they've used only 2 top-100 picks on WR in 8 drafts and neither were/are highly rated prospects while 2) based on the Carolina WR decisions...their acumen finding good ones ain't great.      

 

Now, with their cap issues surfacing...they can't bail themselves out signing high dollar UFAs or trade for a 30M/year type.  Now they gotta draft a good one AND get production immediately.  Because Josh's contract really hits hard next season...and we all know he'll expect more than this motley crew of WR's they've put together. 

 

 

Yeah, this.

 

When you've got Diggs on the team, spending a mid-rounder on Shakir to develop him seems like plenty. Then he's suddenly gone and you wish you'd known because you might have grabbed some earlier guys as well.

 

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Overrated and overdrafted. I said it at the time. Will never be a #1 receiver while he has a hole in his backside. 

 

He could be a nice fit as a slot in the Eagles offense with two studs outside. That is where he belongs in the NFL. Inside. 

 

 

Hole in his backside? I've got one of those myself.

 

Anyway, yeah, agreed, but I think he could be a really good guy playing a lot inside. 

 

Guess I just wasn't watching there close enough.

Edited August 22 by Thurman#1

[LLCoolCy]

Dotson was an interesting option and I would have been in favor of the Bills making the same deal. 
That said, many of us thought Toney and Moore were steals when they got traded early and said Beane should have made the move but BB was correct not to. 
 

 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I haven't projected anything. I have looked for evidence of people banging on about 40 time. It isn't there. Even speed is not the main criticism that comes up. The main criticism that comes up is separation. So I am just reading the words on the page. You are the one projecting. 

 

Ok...so now it must specifically say "40 time"?  You are just going to ignore every refence of him being slow, calling him Kelvin or Funchess to..wait for it...say he is slow.  The issue for the 40 time was that it was slow.  And if you think for one second that the most common reason people think he can't separate isn't because they think he is slow, then I don't even know what to tell you.

 

For the 100th time...we can agree to disagree.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ok...so now it must specifically say "40 time"? 

 

You were the one saying that. That is where this all started. "They all only care about 40 time."

 

And your evidence appears to be a bunch of guys saying "he doesn't separate." You say - ah that's a proxy for saying 40 time. I say, no it's not.

[DCOrange]

5 minutes ago, Process said:

I don't understand the trade. Were there character/work ethic concerns with Dotson? Why would they even be looking to trade him? Recent first round pick who has been somewhat productive. It's not like they are deep at WR. 

Not like terrible person character issues, but I think there’s been some buzz that he just isn’t super driven/isn’t tough enough for the new staff’s liking. There was some buzz he wasn’t going to make the starting lineup for Washington and maybe not even the roster at all (but given his pedigree, trade was always more likely than cut).

 

Olamide Zaccheus had passed him on the depth chart and McCaffrey may have too. 

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Um, what?

 

No, that's nonsense. You know, but apparently most everyone else is dumb enough to think so?

 

Again, we are talking about the entire fan base.  You realize this board doesn't even represent 1% of the fan base right?  You realize that even the majority of this board over weights the importance of the 40 time every year right?  You realize that even the NFL knows this and why the 40 is the most covered and talked about event at the combine because of it.  You realize coaches even reference this in interviews and things talking about how too much is made about the 40 all the time.  

 

This is the same country that believes memes over verifiable facts.  But you think I am being unreasonable by saying the casual fan (which is the majority) over values the 40 times?

 

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Please. Everyone knows this. 40 time is a much smaller factor in separation than the ability to cut and be explosive. And it ain't only a few who know it.

 

 

 

See above...I do not at all agree with this and it shows up every year in every medium that covers the draft, combine, etc.  

[Kirby Jackson]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Again...pre-draft discussion is a SMALL group compared to post draft hot take reactions by the masses.  We are discussing the majority, not the few that did their own pre-draft analysis deeper.  I am not at all disputing your assessment, or that of anyone else who did deep pre-draft work, and I was also part of that group.  We are talking about the majority here and what the top concern/complaint has been.  And that is the perception he is slow, where the biggest contributor to that belief was his 40 time.  

Everyone believes that he is slow. Everyone also believes that he had trouble separating. Those things aren’t the same. 40 times have little to do with separation. Cole Beasley was great at separating. Cole Beasley was a 4.5 guy not a 4.3 guy. Hunter Renfrow is a 4.6 guy. Separation is not code for speed. The Matt Harmon chart shows massive concern with his ability to get open on most routes. That’s not just the deep ball.

 

Coleman was drafted because he has athletic upside. He’s a physical guy with a basketball background. His gauntlet drill at the combine was exceptional.
 

Straight line speed matters but it is nowhere near as important as route running. To this point, Coleman is bad at that. He certainly can improve. He has a high ceiling but a pretty low floor. We have heard throughout camp of the good and the bad. The bad though is EXACTLY what he struggled with in college. It is not new and it is not surprising. So far, the pros and cons have been the same pros and cons that he put on tape. 

 

I’m on record for not liking the Coleman pick. I thought that he was somewhere between the 10th-16th best WR in the draft. The Bills backed themselves into a corner. They needed a guy that could get off the bus and contribute. They needed a guy at the top of their depth chart. They instead took the 8th or 9th WR after trading down twice. That doesn’t scream, “we have to have this guy.” By some accounts he might play behind Mack Hollins to start the year. That is a problem. I promise you, when the Bills selected Coleman they did not plan on him battling Mack Hollins for early playing time. 

Edited August 22 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Again, we are talking about the entire fan base.  You realize this board doesn't even represent 1% of the fan base right? 

 

I accepted it might be true on the twittersphere. I don't frequent that particular medium very often. 

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Everyone believes that he is slow. Everyone also believes that he had trouble separating. Those things aren’t the same. 40 times have little to do with separation. Cole Beasley was great at separating. Cole Beasley was a 4.5 guy not a 4.3 guy. Separation is not code for speed. The Matt Harmon chart shows massive concern with his ability to get open on most routes. That’s not just the deep ball.

 

Coleman was drafted because he has athletic upside. He’s a physical guy with a basketball background. His gauntlet drill at the combine was exceptional.
 

Straight line speed matters but it is nowhere near as important as route running. To this point, Coleman is bad at that. He certainly can improve. He has a high ceiling but a pretty low floor. We have heard throughout camp of the good and the bad. The bad though is EXACTLY what he struggled with in college. It is not new and it is not surprising. So far, the pros and cons have been the same pros and cons that he put on tape. 

 

I’m on record for not liking the Coleman pick. I thought that he was somewhere between the 10th-16th best WR in the draft. The Bills backed themselves into a corner. They needed a guy that could get off the bus and contribute. They needed a guy at the top of their depth chart. They instead took the 8th or 9th WR after trading down twice. That doesn’t scream, “we have to have this guy.” By some accounts he might play behind Mack Hollins to start the year. That is a problem. I promise you, when the Bills selected Coleman they did not plan on him battling Mack Hollins for early playing time. 

 

See I wasn't down on Keon... I had him as WR9 😆

 

On a serious note - agree with everything else you wrote here. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Everyone believes that he is slow. Everyone also believes that he had trouble separating. Those things aren’t the same. 40 times have little to do with separation. Cole Beasley was great at separating. Cole Beasley was a 4.5 guy not a 4.3 guy. Separation is not code for speed. The Matt Harmon chart shows massive concern with his ability to get open on most routes. That’s not just the deep ball.

 

Coleman was drafted because he has athletic upside. He’s a physical guy with a basketball background. His gauntlet drill at the combine was exceptional.
 

Straight line speed matters but it is nowhere near as important as route running. To this point, Coleman is bad at that. He certainly can improve. He has a high ceiling but a pretty low floor. We have heard throughout camp of the good and the bad. The bad though is EXACTLY what he struggled with in college. It is not new and it is not surprising. So far, the pros and cons have been the same pros and cons that he put on tape. 

 

I’m on record for not liking the Coleman pick. I thought that he was somewhere between the 10th-16th best WR in the draft. The Bills backed themselves into a corner. They needed a guy that could get off the bus and contribute. They needed a guy at the top of their depth chart. They instead took the 8th or 9th WR after trading down twice. That doesn’t scream, “we have to have this guy.” By some accounts he might play behind Mack Hollins to start the year. That is a problem. I promise you, when the Bills selected Coleman they did not plan on him battling Mack Hollins for early playing time. 

 

Dude...come on.  No disrespect, but how many times do I have to say we are not discussing ANY evaluations by me, you, gunner, or any one specific person.  What is being discussed is the entire fan base and what the most common negative reaction to Keon has been...which is they believe him to be too slow.  

 

I clearly know that 40 times do not matter significantly in separation, I have been preaching that to the "he is too slow" crowd all offseason.  

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I accepted it might be true on the twittersphere. I don't frequent that particular medium very often. 

 

 

I will accept this as progress...I mean I have been referencing the entire fan base the entire time.  For the love of all things, can we please move on from this incredibly unnecessary conversation

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dude...come on.  No disrespect, but how many times do I have to say we are not discussing ANY evaluations by me, you, gunner, or any one specific person.  What is being discussed is the entire fan base and what the most common negative reaction to Keon has been...which is they believe him to be too slow.  

 

I clearly know that 40 times do not matter significantly in separation, I have been preaching that to the "he is too slow" crowd all offseason.  

So you're saying that Keon is quietly fast?

[julian]

Are there many or any examples of WRs who ran fast 40 times but couldn’t separate in the league ?

 

If not being a good route runner is considered not a good at separation then I guess there’s plenty of examples.

 

Are there slow 40 time players who are good route runners who get separation?

 

hmmmm… my mind is spinning

Edited August 22 by julian

[BillsVet]

35 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Yeah, this.

 

When you've got Diggs on the team, spending a mid-rounder on Shakir to develop him seems like plenty. Then he's suddenly gone and you wish you'd known because you might have grabbed some earlier guys as well.

 

A serious team having a franchise QB doesn't make this mistake.  That's just pi$$-poor planning because you never bank on 5th or later round picks panning out.  (Cue the clown who highlights a good late round pick and neglects to mention most never make it).  

 

And, McD knew he wanted Diggs gone at some point during 2023 because they didn't just wake up on 3 April and decide to move him.    

 

Point is, Buffalo has mismanaged (outside of trading for Diggs) the WR position for years largely because it's not a priority for them.  For a professional team in this era that's inexcusable. 

[4merper4mer]

21 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

A serious team having a franchise QB doesn't make this mistake.  That's just pi$$-poor planning because you never bank on 5th or later round picks panning out.  (Cue the clown who highlights a good late round pick and neglects to mention most never make it).  

 

And, McD knew he wanted Diggs gone at some point during 2023 because they didn't just wake up on 3 April and decide to move him.    

 

Point is, Buffalo has mismanaged (outside of trading for Diggs) the WR position for years largely because it's not a priority for them.  For a professional team in this era that's inexcusable. 

They went and got Diggs and this helped the team tremendously.  In the end, some members of the team had soft feelings that got hurt so the elite #1 WR had to get kicked to the curb.  It was time to grow up but evidently that wasn’t an option and coddling was the selected route.  You don’t just ditch a top end talent and expect to replace it immediately.  Management knows they will take their lumps this year.  Fine.  Maybe it will force some growing up.  But that talent needs to be replaced somehow for 2025 and that isn’t automatic whether via draft or FA.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There is no confusion.  So tell me, what is the number 1 reason why people don't believe he can separate in the NFL?  Because they feel he is too slow.  I mean why do I have to even spell this out at this stage is beyond me.

 

 

Ok then you are being ignorant.  Is that better?  Not separating wasn't what people "think".   It wasn't just an opinion........it was charted in-season.   Way before he ran the slow 40 at the combine.   You are conflating what people "think" with his what his performance told us.   People "thought" he caught a high % of contested passes.   Again, the numbers said otherwise. 

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Ok then you are being ignorant.  Is that better?  Not separating wasn't what people "think".   It wasn't just an opinion........it was charted in-season.   Way before he ran the slow 40 at the combine.   You are conflating what people "think" with his what his performance told us.   People "thought" he caught a high % of contested passes.   Again, the numbers said otherwise. 

 

You didn't answer the question I asked...as usual.  But don't bother...Ive seen this movie before and its not worth the time investment. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

A serious team having a franchise QB doesn't make this mistake.  That's just pi$$-poor planning because you never bank on 5th or later round picks panning out.  (Cue the clown who highlights a good late round pick and neglects to mention most never make it).  

 

And, McD knew he wanted Diggs gone at some point during 2023 because they didn't just wake up on 3 April and decide to move him.    

 

Point is, Buffalo has mismanaged (outside of trading for Diggs) the WR position for years largely because it's not a priority for them.  For a professional team in this era that's inexcusable. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

So you're saying that Keon is quietly fast?

Geezus

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Again...pre-draft discussion is a SMALL group compared to post draft hot take reactions by the masses.  We are discussing the majority, not the few that did their own pre-draft analysis deeper.  I am not at all disputing your assessment, or that of anyone else who did deep pre-draft work, and I was also part of that group.  We are talking about the majority here and what the top concern/complaint has been.  And that is the perception he is slow, where the biggest contributor to that belief was his 40 time.  

It’s funny that his 40 time is beaten to death by some, but his very fast gauntlet pass catching time is virtually totally ignored by those same folk,  so which is it is he fast or is his straight line speed the only valid measure? 

[ScottishBills]

6 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It’s funny that his 40 time is beaten to death by some, but his very fast gauntlet pass catching time is virtually totally ignored by those same folk,  so which is it is he fast or is his straight line speed the only valid measure? 

I have no idea as to the answer, but I'm sure we will get another 10 pages of the most inane boring back and forth about it. What a ***** boring hijacked thread this is. 

 

Came expecting to see salary cap calculations for a DK Metcalf trade, or reasons why Joe Brady will be the guy to bring Robert Woods back from the dead. 

 

Instead got a written version of Arsenal TV 🤦🏽‍♂️