Receivers the Bills could go after?

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

…and you don’t know it’s not. I’m basing that off of the media team employed by the Bills.

And I am basing it on the coaches employed by the Bills who make these decisions and their actions.  
 

So I respectfully disagree.  The coaches have shown there isn’t by the fact that Keon is and has been an exclusive starter and Hollins has not at any point. 
 

Again, no biggie.  I just have more confidence in what the coaches do and say then what someone people paid to talk and speculate do.  

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

…and you don’t know it’s not. I’m basing that off of the media team employed by the Bills.

And to be fair and more clear…I do think this season is going to be less about “starters” and more about packages.  Which is why I think you are seeing guys like Hollins and MVS get time with the ones as they will be out there in different packages this season.

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No need to even revisit it…maybe one of the most unnecessary debates of the season and why I offered many times to just agree to disagree.  But I do agree with your premise and post.  But like I said, the topic itself isn’t even worth revisiting for anyone and think an agree to disagree is more than suitable resolution.  

yeah it wasn’t worth arguing at all imo but I was way behind the thread as I don’t come here much before season starts. I was commenting as I was reading. 

[2003Contenders]

16 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Jahan Dotson + a 5th was traded for a 3rd and two 7ths today. That seems like a no brainer? Wonder why it happened in-division without much noise? 

And what exactly makes you think that Dotson is better than anything the team already has? He has barely eclipsed 500 yards in either season he's been in the NFL.

 

Hollins (who none of us think is great) is 2 years removed from a 57-catch, 690-yard season.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No need to even revisit it…maybe one of the most unnecessary debates of the season and why I offered many times to just agree to disagree.  But I do agree with your premise and post.  But like I said, the topic itself isn’t even worth revisiting for anyone and think an agree to disagree is more than suitable resolution.  

 

No need to re-visit because you never had a point in the first place.   I'm surprised @GunnerBill even dignified your narrative the way I often do.   You have proven to be a bit of a slow learner but I still have faith that the light will come on for you at some point.    You will join us on the realistic side of the force one day. 

[Doc Brown]

33 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

And what exactly makes you think that Dotson is better than anything the team already has? He has barely eclipsed 500 yards in either season he's been in the NFL.

 

Hollins (who none of us think is great) is 2 years removed from a 57-catch, 690-yard season.

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement when that's your best year.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Except he is not playing ahead of Keon.  And you are just ignoring everything else like the literal fact that Keon has started both preseason games and literally taken 100% of all snaps with the ones since day 1 of camp. 

 

The bolded isn't true. He did start off with the 1s it wasn't a start with the 2s and earn it situation, if that's what you mean but they have been rotating the top 4 with the ones and were rotating MVS and Shavers in a bit there too in the middle of camp. 

[Alphadawg7]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The bolded isn't true. He did start off with the 1s it wasn't a start with the 2s and earn it situation, if that's what you mean but they have been rotating the top 4 with the ones and were rotating MVS and Shavers in a bit there too in the middle of camp. 

Huh?  You disagree then repeat verbatim word for word what I have said multiple times now.  I don’t get it.

 

I said Keon has only run with the ones.  You said that is not true but then follow up with well if you mean he hasn’t run with the twos.  Of course that’s what I mean, it’s literally verbatim what I said.  
 

I also said multiple times that Hollins and MVS have gotten snaps with the ones but have not exclusively run with the ones as they have spent time with the twos also. 
 

And that isn’t breaking news, it’s no different than any other team where WRs that are going to see snaps in the regular season in packages or as primary backups.  

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

No need to re-visit because you never had a point in the first place.   I'm surprised @GunnerBill even dignified your narrative the way I often do.   You have proven to be a bit of a slow learner but I still have faith that the light will come on for you at some point.    You will join us on the realistic side of the force one day. 

Its funny how rent free I live in your head.  I do think your little crush on me is cute though 😘

[GunnerBill]

57 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Huh?  You disagree then repeat verbatim word for word what I have said multiple times now.  I don’t get it.

 

I said Keon has only run with the ones.  You said that is not true but then follow up with well if you mean he hasn’t run with the twos.  Of course that’s what I mean, it’s literally verbatim what I said.  
 

I also said multiple times that Hollins and MVS have gotten snaps with the ones but have not exclusively run with the ones as they have spent time with the twos also. 
 

And that isn’t breaking news, it’s no different than any other team where WRs that are going to see snaps in the regular season in packages or as primary backups.  

 

 

You said he has taken literally all snaps with the ones. I understand what you mean now you explained but that isn't what you said. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You said he has taken literally all snaps with the ones. I understand what you mean now you explained but that isn't what you said. 

No probkem…but I still don’t know you could have taken it any other way as it doesn’t make sense in any other way.  But all good.  

[pennstate10]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There’s a lot there. I’ll boil it down to the first sentence. How many NFL teams do you think would be okay with Mack Hollins playing ahead of the 33rd pick? The answer is zero. Regardless of whether it is Coleman or Hollins the fact that it is a discussion is a failure. 32 NFL teams would say that’s a problem.

C’mon dude, your stance doesn’t make any sense, and flys in the face of reality. 
 

Are all 32 1st round picks starting in game 1?  And if they don’t, are they (the players and the GMs who picked them) all failures?
 

Because that’s what you’re saying. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

C’mon dude, your stance doesn’t make any sense, and flys in the face of reality. 
 

Are all 32 1st round picks starting in game 1?  And if they don’t, are they (the players and the GMs who picked them) all failures?
 

Because that’s what you’re saying. 

 

That isn't what he is saying. He is saying if your first round pick (Coleman was #33 but point stands) isn't starting and is behind a complete journeyman like Mack Hollins that is a reason to be concerned. He is not saying Coleman is a failure or Beane is a failure. Or that all first round picks must start. 

[NewEra]

15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And I am basing it on the coaches employed by the Bills who make these decisions and their actions.  
 

So I respectfully disagree.  The coaches have shown there isn’t by the fact that Keon is and has been an exclusive starter and Hollins has not at any point. 
 

Again, no biggie.  I just have more confidence in what the coaches do and say then what someone people paid to talk and speculate do.  

And to be fair and more clear…I do think this season is going to be less about “starters” and more about packages.  Which is why I think you are seeing guys like Hollins and MVS get time with the ones as they will be out there in different packages this season.

💯 

[stuvian]

We have already made our splashy move at WR. That was drafting Keon Coleman. Any further roster moves due to injury will come from within. The waiver wire will have scraps of players at the end of the line. I expect Cook, Kincaid and Knox to get the most touches. Shakir and Coleman will keep defenses honest. The big improvements this year will have to come on defense

[Kirby Jackson]

13 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

C’mon dude, your stance doesn’t make any sense, and flys in the face of reality. 
 

Are all 32 1st round picks starting in game 1?  And if they don’t, are they (the players and the GMs who picked them) all failures?
 

Because that’s what you’re saying. 

Lol, seriously? That doesn’t make sense to you? We aren’t talking about all 32 picks starting!! For example, the plan was never for Penix to start this year. 
 

We are talking about a guy picked at 33, playing ahead of a guy entering year 7, that has averaged 22 receptions & 282 yards per season. All 32 teams would be appalled if their 1st draft pick couldn’t beat that guy out. That guy is a 5th WR (probably a 4th here behind Coleman). 
 

I am guessing that Coleman plays ahead of Hollins. I was surprised when Tasker and Brown mentioned that it was a competition last week. That’s a problem. If Coleman isn’t WAY ahead of that guy at this point, he’s not where they believed that he would be. With their desperate need for a high end WR, they didn’t plan on having that guy battling Mack Hollins in late August. 

Edited August 24 by Kirby Jackson

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That isn't what he is saying. He is saying if your first round pick (Coleman was #33 but point stands) isn't starting and is behind a complete journeyman like Mack Hollins that is a reason to be concerned. He is not saying Coleman is a failure or Beane is a failure. Or that all first round picks must start. 

 

I don't think it has much to do with Coleman himself. It's been known since the draft that Hollins would get a significant amount of playing time. Until MVS was signed out of desperation, Hollins was the only player on the roster to have received a majority of his snaps outside in the NFL. I don't know if he is ahead of Coleman in the coaching staff's mind or vice versa, but both are going to get a lot of playing time outside because they are the only real options we have there. And yes it represents a massive failure of this regime to have a 2nd round rookie and a journeyman JAG as the primary outside receiving options in the prime of Allen's career.

 

Much like this regime did when they drafted Allen, they have drafted a raw physical talent that was known to need a development track and are instead throwing him into the deep end of the pool because they've left themselves no other options. If Hollins ends up in front of Coleman on the opening depth chart, that isn't any more concerning than Nate Peterman opening the season ahead of Allen on the depth chart in 2018.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think it has much to do with Coleman himself. It's been known since the draft that Hollins would get a significant amount of playing time. Until MVS was signed out of desperation, Hollins was the only player on the roster to have received a majority of his snaps outside in the NFL. I don't know if he is ahead of Coleman in the coaching staff's mind or vice versa, but both are going to get a lot of playing time outside because they are the only real options we have there. And yes it represents a massive failure of this regime to have a 2nd round rookie and a journeyman JAG as the primary outside receiving options in the prime of Allen's career.

 

Much like this regime did when they drafted Allen, they have drafted a raw physical talent that was known to need a development track and are instead throwing him into the deep end of the pool because they've left themselves no other options. If Hollins ends up in front of Coleman on the opening depth chart, that isn't any more concerning than Nate Peterman opening the season ahead of Allen on the depth chart in 2018.

 

Hmmm. I agree with the first para. But I only agree to an extent with the second para. I don't know that it is about development arcs so much as it is about the skillset. The things we have seen Keon do well in camp are the things we saw him do well in college. The things we saw him struggle with in games are the things we saw him struggle with in college. I am interested to see how much they use Keon in the slot. Because if he is struggling to produce outside and they feel pressure to make it work I can see them going there quite quickly. And then the outside question gets even more perplexing.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

With their desperate need for a high end WR, they didn’t plan on having that guy battling Mack Hollins in late August. 

 

Unfortunately Kirby, this regime clearly didn't see a high end WR as a desperate need. If they did and expected Coleman to immediately step in and be that guy, that is even worse. I don't see Coleman vs Hollins as the battle. If anything it was Coleman vs Hollins vs MVS for two spots, and MVS has emerged as the clear loser. I expect Coleman's usage to ramp up as the season goes along, which is the expectation for a 2nd round talent. Rashee Rice last year averaged just 34.6 YPG in his first 5 games, but 69.5 YPG in his final 11. Look for progress in October, not in August.

[HappyDays]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The things we have seen Keon do well in camp are the things we saw him do well in college. The things we saw him struggle with in games are the things we saw him struggle with in college.

 

Word for word this would be true of almost any rookie prospect that wasn't a blue chip, no? Did anyone really expect Coleman to refine his game by the end of August in his rookie season? You take a prospect like him because you believe that his flaws are fixable, but not overnight. Separating/creating leverage in tight coverage from NFL boundary CBs is an art as much as it is a science and it's going to take him time to learn how to use his pure physical gifts to master that part of the game. Fans are of course right to have concerns about the WR room as a whole and about Coleman potentially getting more volume than he can handle right now, but having concerns about Coleman in general at this infant stage of his NFL career really isn't reasonable IMO.

 

Edited August 24 by HappyDays

[White Linen]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That isn't what he is saying. He is saying if your first round pick (Coleman was #33 but point stands) isn't starting and is behind a complete journeyman like Mack Hollins that is a reason to be concerned. He is not saying Coleman is a failure or Beane is a failure. Or that all first round picks must start. 

 

Then what's the failure, when he says "the fact that it is a discussion is a failure"?  

 

Is the act of discussing the failure?  If not....