Kirby Jackson Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Don't do the twisting words game so many do around here to save a bad take. That is beneath you. You were wrong when you said only 8 mentions about it in 6 pages...I mean there were 6 refences to him being slow on page 1 alone of 109 page thread of which is just one thread of dozens on him. And in those 6 pages, the number 1 complaint was he is slow. And the NUMBER ONE reason people think he can't separate is because they think he is SLOW. Why you are still going on about this is still is wild, especially when I threw out 4 times now to agree to disagree. There is no confusion. So tell me, what is the number 1 reason why people don't believe he can separate in the NFL? Because they feel he is too slow. I mean why do I have to even spell this out at this stage is beyond me. And I am as involved in the pre-draft process as anyone around here. I don’t want to speak for @BADOLBILZ but that isn’t it. I posted the chart here earlier. The reason people don’t believe that he can separate in the NFL is because he didn’t separate in the ACC. That discussion was long before the slow 40 at the combine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 On 8/19/2024 at 4:39 PM, Desert Bills Fan said: Brandon Aiyuk and CeeDee Lamb are not satisfied with contract offers, so there is still a chance. Rework Josh’s contract again to get some more cap space? is there a chance at the: Lions Jameson Williams? Rams Tutu Atwell? Chargers Quentin Johnston? Raiders DaVonte Adam’s? others? Where is the many millions of dollars that is required to do this coming from? I don’t ask this to be a jerk, it strikes me that the Bills don’t have the coin to sign above average talent, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t want to speak for @BADOLBILZ but that isn’t it. I posted the chart here earlier. The reason people don’t believe that he can separate in the NFL is because he didn’t separate in the ACC. That discussion was long before the slow 40 at the combine. Again...pre-draft discussion is a SMALL group compared to post draft hot take reactions by the masses. We are discussing the majority, not the few that did their own pre-draft analysis deeper. I am not at all disputing your assessment, or that of anyone else who did deep pre-draft work, and I was also part of that group. We are talking about the majority here and what the top concern/complaint has been. And that is the perception he is slow, where the biggest contributor to that belief was his 40 time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 21 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Gunner...come on...this is a silly disagreement here. What is the number 1 concern on Keon? Can he separate...where did that concern originate...off his 40 time for the majority. Go read the draft pick thread, not one now where opinions and assumptions were already made that originated from his combine 40 time. Alpha, no. Separation isn't mostly a 40 thing. It's much more an explosion, athleticism and ability to cut hard and run routes thing. Route-running, college play design, and smaller guys tend to separate better ... there's a ton to it. And a ton of the concern about separation is a Bills-specific thing, because this group has brought in guys the last few years based greatly on separation. We learned to expect them to do so, and to judge guys based on that. The Bills have plainly decided on a change of direction, probably greatly affected by the way the Chiefs in the playoffs just assumed correctly there wouldn't be flags thrown and just grabbed the hell out of our separators. In college Keon got good separation on some routes and not others. He's really good at separating on stop routes for instance. Edited August 22 by Thurman#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Don't do the twisting words game so many do around here to save a bad take. That is beneath you. You were wrong when you said only 8 mentions about it in 6 pages...I mean there were 6 refences to him being slow on page 1 alone of 109 page thread of which is just one thread of dozens on him. And in those 6 pages, the number 1 complaint was he is slow. And the NUMBER ONE reason people think he can't separate is because they think he is SLOW. No there aren't. The number one people think he can't separate is in college he struggled to separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: No there aren't. The number one people think he can't separate is in college he struggled to separate. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No there aren't. The number one people think he can't separate is in college he struggled to separate. Lol...yes there is. And that is becasue they think he is too slow lmao...dude let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Lol...yes there is. And that is becasue they think he is too slow lmao...dude let it go. No, you are the one deciding that. You don't know that is what people think. You are projecting that everyone who worries about him separating does so, not just because they are worried about his speed, but - in your own words - because they overreacted to a 40 time. If every time you read "he isn't a good separator" you in your head read "he ran a slow 40" I understand why you perceive it the way you do. But that involves you projecting some. Edited August 22 by GunnerBill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Alpha, no. Separation isn't mostly a 40 thing. It's much more an explosion, athleticism and ability to cut hard and run routes thing. Route-running, college play design, and smaller guys tend to separate better ... there's a ton to it. And a ton of the concern about separation is a Bills-specific thing, because this group has brought in guys the last few years based greatly on separation. We learned to expect them to do so, and to judge guys based on that. The Bills have plainly decided on a change of direction, probably greatly affected by the way the Chiefs in the playoffs just assumed correctly there wouldn't be flags thrown and just grabbed the hell out of our separators. In college Keon got good separation on some routes and not others. He's really good at separating on stop routes for instance. I know what separation is. I know it isn't a 40 thing. This is not about me or any evaluation I have on Keon or disputing anyone elses evaluation on Keon. The discussion is what the MASSES believe. And the masses across the entire NFL fan base do NOT understand how insignificant the 40 time is, which is why it's the single most talked about event at the combine each and every year. The majority of the Bills fan base was not out there evaluating players and watching film before the combine. The most common concern amongst the masses was he was too slow...and because he is too slow, he won't separate and that is why they believe he did not separate in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I know what separation is. I know it isn't a 40 thing. 12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Lol...yes there is. And that is becasue they think he is too slow lmao...dude let it go. Um, what? No, that's nonsense. You know, but apparently most everyone else is dumb enough to think so? Please. Everyone knows this. 40 time is a much smaller factor in separation than the ability to cut and be explosive. And it ain't only a few who know it. Edited August 22 by Thurman#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Just now, GunnerBill said: No, you are the one deciding that. You don't know that is what people think. You are projecting that everyone who worries about him separating does so, not just because they are worried about his speed, but - in your own words - because they overreacted to a 40 time. Lol...its in black and white all over this board. This is so ironic because all you have done is project your personal evaluation to be that of the masses. If you think anything other than a tiny percent of the fan base does even 10% of the deep diving you do then you are naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCoolCy Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) This should get the thread going again. Weird trade. Edited August 22 by LLCoolCy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills742 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Um, what? What do you mean what. You just told me separation isn't mostly a 40 thing, and I said I know, I know what separation is and its not all about the 40. What is confusing to me agreeing with your statement and letting you know I am aware of that already? 13 minutes ago, bills742 said: This is a suprise...this won't go well around here lol. Edited August 22 by Alphadawg7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: What do you mean what. You just told me separation isn't mostly a 40 thing, and I said I know, I know what separation is and its not all about the 40. What is confusing to me agreeing with your statement and letting you know I am aware of that already? Sorry, I'd only half-constructed the post. Take another look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: Samuel was always destined to be injured and have a lost year/stolen contract. Turf toe is a perfect excuse for sucking all year. For 2024 the Bills will have to get very lucky. 2025 should focus on a top WR in the draft. If the Vikes stink we'll have pick say 38 plus our own which looks to be in the 12-15 range which should be enough to move up and get a top flight guy. They can’t be spending 30M on some loser like Aiyuk. It’ll be interesting to see which route we go with our new OC for 2025 and what style WR will be a good target. Then get a mid-tier FA for depth/experience. If there was a downside to the Diggs trade, they thought it meant they didn't have to draft WR or be aggressive in UFA in 2021 and 2022. Those decisions are a big reason why this is where they are now at WR...they weren't developing much there in those years. This makes me wonder whether the personnel teams, amateur and pro, are advocating for WRs and ignored or just focus harder elsewhere because they know what the bosses want. Regardless, even if they maneuver to get high enough to take a WR in next year's draft, I have doubts they'll get it right. Because 1) they've used only 2 top-100 picks on WR in 8 drafts and neither were/are highly rated prospects while 2) based on the Carolina WR decisions...their acumen finding good ones ain't great. Now, with their cap issues surfacing...they can't bail themselves out signing high dollar UFAs or trade for a 30M/year type. Now they gotta draft a good one AND get production immediately. Because Josh's contract really hits hard next season...and we all know he'll expect more than this motley crew of WR's they've put together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Hunh, that Dotson trade is a bit perplexing. I thought they still liked him in D.C. They must not, or at least not so much. Hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Lol...its in black and white all over this board. This is so ironic because all you have done is project your personal evaluation to be that of the masses. If you think anything other than a tiny percent of the fan base does even 10% of the deep diving you do then you are naive. I haven't projected anything. I have looked for evidence of people banging on about 40 time. It isn't there. Even speed is not the main criticism that comes up. The main criticism that comes up is separation. So I am just reading the words on the page. You are the one projecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 I don't understand the trade. Were there character/work ethic concerns with Dotson? Why would they even be looking to trade him? Recent first round pick who has been somewhat productive. It's not like they are deep at WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Just now, Thurman#1 said: Hunh, that Dotson trade is a bit perplexing. I thought they still liked him in D.C. They must not, or at least not so much. Hmm. Overrated and overdrafted. I said it at the time. Will never be a #1 receiver while he has a hole in his backside. He could be a nice fit as a slot in the Eagles offense with two studs outside. That is where he belongs in the NFL. Inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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