Receivers the Bills could go after?

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, BeastMaster said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mahomes win a SB last season with basically nothing at WR? Brady did the same. Great QB's have made the receivers...not the other way around.

 

The jury is obviously still out, but I personally want to see Josh with a group of lesser talented guys that play hard and do things the right way so that Josh and the system can operate as intended.

 

Now it could fail spectacularly and I will be regretting what we didn't do, but the fact is that we didn't have cap space and Diggs/Davis wasn't a good fit anymore.

 

They brought guys in that had experience and at least a modicum of success in Samuel, Holllins, Claypool, and MVS. Should they have drafted another receiver in the draft? Probably. 

 

Would that have made a significant difference? Consider my highly skeptical on that one.

 

This year we find out how good Josh can make a group of receivers without proven pedigrees...just like many greats have done before him. If it doesn't work, this organization is set up with draft capital and cap space to remedy it.

 

I suggest accepting what many expected this season to be at the end of last season...a reset of the cap so we can make a run after this upcoming season. If we exceed expectations, consider it a bonus.

 

Although they won the SB, throughout the season that offense struggled quite a bit and it definitely showed due to the WR position and all the drops etc for a majority of the season . Seems like it wasn't until about the last part of the season or so they started showing some improvement. 

 

Also they had a very strong defense which lucky for them picked up all that slack.

[Motorin']

We need to target an outside #1 wr next off season. 

 

If I could pick anyone in the league to go after who fits what the Bills need with the skill set and production, at the current cost, I'd trade for Terry McClauren in the last year of his current contract. 

 

His play is similar to Diggs with a team first attitude. 

Edited August 20 by Motorin'

[C.Biscuit97]

18 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'll play along with the "who should the Bills go after at WR" game.

I don't think the Bills are going to trade for a WR. I wish they would, but I don't think they will.

IF they were going to do it, though, one target that I think would be both realistic and attainable, from both a compensation and contract cost standpoint, is Marvin Mims from the Broncos.

Depending who you ask, he rangers anywhere from 2nd to 5th on the Broncos depth chart. Crucially, though, Sean Payton seems to be consciously moving the Broncos WR corps to a more size-based approach. Mims only saw ONE preseason snap last week. That may be an indication that he has a starting spot locked up, or it MAY be an indication that -- like last year -- he has fallen somewhat out of favor with the coaching staff.

He his a fast, twitchy receiver with RAC ability who could be the Bills kick and punt returner AND -- if necessary -- fill in for Samuel as the "motion guy"/diverse and movable chess piece.

He's 5'11", 182 lbs, and had over 1000 yards and 6 TDs as a JR at Oklahoma. I like him a lot and I think the Broncos, for whatever reason, are wasting him.

I think an early day three 2025 pick could get the job done, and would be a worthwhile move to make.

 

You simply don't know that.

Amon Ra St Brown was a 4th round pick and had over 900 yards as a rookie. Puka Nacua was a 5th round pick and had over 1400 yards as a receiver. Stefon Diggs himself was a 5th round pick and posted over 700 yards as a rookie. You can say that the PROBABILITY of a day three pick making a difference is low, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It absolutely does. And the only way to have a shot at that type of "outlier" is to take a swing at it. Even if a day three WR pick has, say, a 10% chance at making a difference, that's still higher than the 0% chance at WR productivity the Bills get by not taking one at all.

Exactly. It’s shots at the lottery. The more shots you take, the better chance you have to win. Plus you have Allen so your margin for error is a lot higher. And they are cheap and can be molded. 
 

I like Hollins but he is what he is. Same with MVS. The only one who might have some upside is Samuel. But you want players who scare DCs and we don’t have that guy.

Just now, Motorin' said:

We need to target an outside #1 we next off season. 

 

If I could pick anyone in the league to go after who fits what the Bills need with the skill set and production, at the current cost, I'd trade for Terry McClauren in the last year of his current contract. 

 

His play is similar to Diggs with a team first attitude. 

That would be a great trade for him and the Bills. However, I doubt a team that drafted a rookie wants to give away one of his only weapons. 

[Success]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'll grant you KJ Hamler. He was a productive college receiver chosen in the 2nd round whose only downfall thus far has been an inability to stay healthy.

I don't think it needed to be either/or, though. Taking a day three WR wouldn't have impacted the Bills' ability to bring Hamler to camp.

In any case, I just don't think the Bills take enough swing at WR in the draft, particularly considering the importance of the position in the 2024 NFL. To give just one example, they attack the RB position with greater regularity and aggression and higher draft capital than the WR position, and that just doesn't make any sense to me. I want to see them regularly re-stocking the cupboards with quality receiving options, and they just seem absolutely unwilling to do so.

 

I can't disagree w/ that.  I'd love to see us have at least a top 10 WR corps.

 

Personally, I don't mind the focus on RB - we need a running game, and we're still not there yet.  I really like what I saw out of Davis, and think he and Cook can potentially be the best tandem we've had under JA.  We'll see, but that would improve our offense as much as an upgrade at the 3 or 4 receiver position.

 

And I almost always rationalize lack of investment in the WR position by looking at what the Pats did for 15+ years while they were going to Super Bowls every other year.  It was so rare to see them make that investment. Moss stands out.  You can say guys like Welker & Edelman were great, but they were both late rounders that I'd guess we would hardly know if they played for a lot of other teams.

 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

The fact that Samuel might be a big loss says a lot about the WRs in the first place. 
 

this is a very meh group with a great qb. There is no one who scares defenses unless Keon makes some dramatic leap. Still it is plenty to win a bunch of games but like KC last year, the margin of error becomes so slim.

 

Does it though?  I think it’s in the eye of the beholder.  The people most panicked about the Samuel injury are also mostly the same people who are the most negative or pessimistic about our weapons over all, so they see Samuel as more. WR1 or WR2.  And that has a lot to do with that same group having low expectations for Keon.

 

However, by seasons end I think Samuel has a good chance to finish as WR4 on the target share list because Kincaid and Shakir very likely out touch him in the pass game, and if the chemistry between Allen and Keon transitions into the regular season, Keon probably does too.  
 

So depends on one’s view of the group.  I don’t think the Samuel toe injury is that big of a deal right now…it’s week to week and may not miss much time, if even any time. And in my opinion, he’s more of a Swiss army piece than a primary target in this offense anyway.
 

I like Samuel and what he brings to the offense, but I’m not going to panic about someone likely to be the 3rd to 5th option in the offense on any given week.  

There is only one football.  But we still have plenty of weapons to go around and make plays on passing downs.  Kincaid and Knox…Keon and Shakir.  Davis and Cook.  Allen’s legs.

 

And I know people doubt Hollins, but he’s looked very good on the All-22 and I think he is going to be a better depth player for us than his bigger naysayers think.  He is consistently getting open and running good routes on the All-22.  We could do a lot worse for a 5th option on an offense IMHO…and we have for years.  

[Mark Vader]

17 hours ago, Logic said:

Respectfully, you've been one of the loudest cheerleaders -- if not the loudest -- of the current WR corps all offseason. You wrote hundreds of words across multiple threads telling me that my concerns about the lack of depth at WR and the Bills' refusal to draft more than one WR were unfounded, and that they'd be just fine. And now here we are, staring down the barrel of Mack Hollins as WR2 and Tyrell Shavers as WR4.

The reality is this: Two of the WRs that got hurt weren't any good anyway. Claypool is dangerously close to being an NFL washout at age 26. MVS's career high in single season receiving yardage is 690. So yeah, those guys are hurt, but even if they WEREN'T, they're still not very good players, and the Bills' depth chart at WR is/was still thin.

I (and others) said back as far as the draft that the WR corps was shallow and was placing an AWFUL LOT in the "if everyone stays healthy, we'll have Samuel, Coleman, and Shakir, and that seems pretty good" basket. Well, guess what? Everyone DIDN'T stay healthy, the lack of depth at the position is showing, and it's looking fairly likely that the Bills will start the season with Mack Hollins and Tyrell Shavers playing major minutes at WR. But again, even if Samuel was the only player lost to injury, you'd still be looking at two JAGs in Claypool and MVS getting major playing time. 

Spin it however you want. The Bills' potential week 1 depth chart at WR looks bleak. We've got a shiny new 3rd round rotational DT and a shiny new 4th round running back, while guys like Javon Baker and Jalen McMillan and Jordan Whittington make noise for other teams. WR got short shrift AGAIN. It looks like Josh Allen is gonna have to play Superman AGAIN. It just gets so damned old, and I get damned tired of being gaslit into thinking that I'm crazy for wanting more for support for our franchise QB.

I don't always agree with your takes, however you pretty much nailed it with this argument.

 

I was hoping that the Bills would fill the roster with WR's this offseason and make it as competitive as possible, even before they traded Diggs. The Bills needed help desperately at this position and when the offseason was over the results were underwhelming. Claypool & MVS were not that inspiring, nor was Hollins.

For weeks I railed for the likes of Van Jefferson, Donovan Peoples-Jones & DJ Chark, not superstars but proven veterans, unlike last year's finds in Harty & Sherfield.

 

I didn't like the pick of Keon Coleman, but I'm willing to give the guy a chance. It's tough to deal with because I like Beane as a GM. Which makes it even more frustrating, because I thought he would address the WR position with a very serious approach.

 

Now we have to wait and see.

[Logic]

10 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I don't always agree with your takes, however you pretty much nailed it with this argument.

 

I was hoping that the Bills would fill the roster with WR's this offseason and make it as competitive as possible, even before they traded Diggs. The Bills needed help desperately at this position and when the offseason was over the results were underwhelming. Claypool & MVS were not that inspiring, nor was Hollins.

For weeks I railed for the likes of Van Jefferson, Donovan Peoples-Jones & DJ Chark, not superstars but proven veterans, unlike last year's finds in Harty & Sherfield.

 

I didn't like the pick of Keon Coleman, but I'm willing to give the guy a chance. It's tough to deal with because I like Beane as a GM. Which makes it even more frustrating, because I thought he would address the WR position with a very serious approach.

 

Now we have to wait and see.

Thanks. I agree with what you say here as well.

The only argument people seem to be able to offer in rebuttal is "well, this year is a reset year anyway, and NEXT year they'll be making some noise!". Which, okay, fine. But as @HappyDays pointed out, if that IS the path they've chosen to take, then it would've made all the sense in the world to get a few young receivers in our building THIS year, have them get their growing pains out of the way THIS year, and then NEXT year they'd be ready to "make some noise" along with the rest of the roster. Instead, even if the Bills draft another WR or two next year, they'll be rookies, and we'll be hearing "we can't expect them to fully contribute until 2026."

At the end of the day, I realize that you can't fill every need every offseason. You have to choose where to attack roster improvement, where to concentrate your spending and draft pick allocation. Just once, I wanted them to make wide receiver the TOP priority in the offseason, even if it meant steady vets and not superstars, as you say, and a couple draft picks. We've seen what happens when they focus their attention elsewhere and "get by" at WR. It hasn't gotten the results we want. I was/am ready to see what would happen if they loaded up the WR room and were willing to "get by" at other positions, and this year was a great draft class to do it with, but they chose not to.

Frustrating.

[RobbRiddick]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Reid won nothing before Mahomes; was laughed at for his time management; and got fired in Philly. He identified Mahomes, traded up in the draft for him when they had a serviceable qb who took them to the playoffs.

 

Reid is a very good offensive coach. Mahkmes has had the best start to his career of any qb in history and now Reid is looked as an all time great coach. So yes, you have to be a hater to not understand how good Mahomes. With that receiving core last year, that is one of the worst teams in the nfl. 

Mahomes is great no doubt, but Reid went to 5 NFC champs with a very sub par QB (4 in a row). He also nearly won a super bowl with him against Brady. I hear this a lot about how Reid was a bad coach in Philly. He wasn't. Mahomes is WAY better than McNabb, but I honestly believe if Reid retired tomorrow their grip on the AFC ends. Maybe if they 3peat he will retire. And if I turn out to be wrong I'll hold my hands up and say I'm wrong.

 

This isn't about knocking Mahomes, it's the insane level of praise he gets from the media. I heard one show where they said the chasm that exists between Mahomes' tier and the next one (Burrow and Allen) is wider than the Grand Canyon. It's becoming insane now. Mahomes probably is better than Allen and Burrow, but the gap is nowhere near as wide as everyone says, and the one that does exist would close in a second without Reid.

[Cvanvol7]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Does it though?  I think it’s in the eye of the beholder.  The people most panicked about the Samuel injury are also mostly the same people who are the most negative or pessimistic about our weapons over all, so they see Samuel as more. WR1 or WR2.  And that has a lot to do with that same group having low expectations for Keon.

 

However, by seasons end I think Samuel has a good chance to finish as WR4 on the target share list because Kincaid and Shakir very likely out touch him in the pass game, and if the chemistry between Allen and Keon transitions into the regular season, Keon probably does too.  
 

So depends on one’s view of the group.  I don’t think the Samuel toe injury is that big of a deal right now…it’s week to week and may not miss much time, if even any time. And in my opinion, he’s more of a Swiss army piece than a primary target in this offense anyway.
 

I like Samuel and what he brings to the offense, but I’m not going to panic about someone likely to be the 3rd to 5th option in the offense on any given week.  

There is only one football.  But we still have plenty of weapons to go around and make plays on passing downs.  Kincaid and Knox…Keon and Shakir.  Davis and Cook.  Allen’s legs.

 

And I know people doubt Hollins, but he’s looked very good on the All-22 and I think he is going to be a better depth player for us than his bigger naysayers think.  He is consistently getting open and running good routes on the All-22.  We could do a lot worse for a 5th option on an offense IMHO…and we have for years.  

 

 

Curtis Samuel was paid by Brandon Beane to be WR1 this year...…  You should be slightly panicked that the veteran receiver making the most money after the diggs trade is now out potentially multiple weeks. 

[Success]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The fact that Samuel might be a big loss says a lot about the WRs in the first place. 
 

this is a very meh group with a great qb. There is no one who scares defenses unless Keon makes some dramatic leap. Still it is plenty to win a bunch of games but like KC last year, the margin of error becomes so slim.

I think Kincaid could be kind of scary if he takes a next step and has a bigger role (both of which I see as likely). Maybe he's not technically a WR - but he kind of is.  Almost how Kelce is w/ KC.

 

Shakir might not be 'scary' in the traditional sense, but he's a playmaker and can hold it down as a top target in the WR group.

 

[Bangarang]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

We need to target an outside #1 wr next off season. 

 

If I could pick anyone in the league to go after who fits what the Bills need with the skill set and production, at the current cost, I'd trade for Terry McClauren in the last year of his current contract. 

 

His play is similar to Diggs with a team first attitude. 

 

He'll be 29 next off season. Maybe if it's a 1 or 2 year deal at the right price. 

[NeverOutNick]

It really feels like Beane has a trade in the works at WR. Why else would he not bring in another camp body/competition after all the injuries

[Lofton80]

Hollins was targeted by Josh a lot at camp practices particularly in the endzone. He seems pretty good at high pointing the ball and catching the fade patterns in the redzone. He might not be an all-pro but I think he will surprise in the redzone.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

I can't disagree w/ that.  I'd love to see us have at least a top 10 WR corps.

 

Personally, I don't mind the focus on RB - we need a running game, and we're still not there yet.  I really like what I saw out of Davis, and think he and Cook can potentially be the best tandem we've had under JA.  We'll see, but that would improve our offense as much as an upgrade at the 3 or 4 receiver position.

 

And I almost always rationalize lack of investment in the WR position by looking at what the Pats did for 15+ years while they were going to Super Bowls every other year.  It was so rare to see them make that investment. Moss stands out.  You can say guys like Welker & Edelman were great, but they were both late rounders that I'd guess we would hardly know if they played for a lot of other teams.

 

Welker was a one man show in Miami. Everyone knew about him there he was all over every sports show. 

[Success]

6 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

It really feels like Beane has a trade in the works at WR. Why else would he not bring in another camp body/competition after all the injuries

 

At this point, we haven't really lost much in terms of the season.  Samuel is week to week - with a little less than 3 weeks to go.  MVS will take longer, but it's not like he was going to be in the top 3 anyway.

 

People here are kind of panicking unnecessarily, imo.

 

[NeverOutNick]

5 minutes ago, Success said:

 

At this point, we haven't really lost much in terms of the season.  Samuel is week to week - with a little less than 3 weeks to go.  MVS will take longer, but it's not like he was going to be in the top 3 anyway.

 

People here are kind of panicking unnecessarily, imo.

 

MVS shouldn’t even be an option for making the team. He’s done absolutely nothing since joining our team. 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

 

At this point, we haven't really lost much in terms of the season.  Samuel is week to week - with a little less than 3 weeks to go.  MVS will take longer, but it's not like he was going to be in the top 3 anyway.

 

People here are kind of panicking unnecessarily, imo.

 

it's not panic, it's simply pointing out an obvious deficiency

 

matter of fact i imagine the panic is going to come from the folks who swore up and down this receiver room was sufficient come roughly week6

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, BeastMaster said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mahomes win a SB last season with basically nothing at WR? Brady did the same. Great QB's have made the receivers...not the other way around.

 

The jury is obviously still out, but I personally want to see Josh with a group of lesser talented guys that play hard and do things the right way so that Josh and the system can operate as intended.

 

Now it could fail spectacularly and I will be regretting what we didn't do, but the fact is that we didn't have cap space and Diggs/Davis wasn't a good fit anymore.

 

They brought guys in that had experience and at least a modicum of success in Samuel, Holllins, Claypool, and MVS. Should they have drafted another receiver in the draft? Probably. 

 

Would that have made a significant difference? Consider my highly skeptical on that one.

 

This year we find out how good Josh can make a group of receivers without proven pedigrees...just like many greats have done before him. If it doesn't work, this organization is set up with draft capital and cap space to remedy it.

 

I suggest accepting what many expected this season to be at the end of last season...a reset of the cap so we can make a run after this upcoming season. If we exceed expectations, consider it a bonus.

Pretty sure Brady had Gronk and Belichick and Mahomes has Kelce and Reid. 

Those are two of the three greatest TEs in NFL history, and probably two of the top 10 NFL coaches in league history.

 

Kincaid isn't there yet and let's just say McDermott isn't making any all-time HC list anytime soon. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Cvanvol7 said:

 

 

Curtis Samuel was paid by Brandon Beane to be WR1 this year...…  You should be slightly panicked that the veteran receiver making the most money after the diggs trade is now out potentially multiple weeks. 

Lol no he wasn’t 

[JohnNord]

On 8/19/2024 at 4:39 PM, Desert Bills Fan said:

Brandon Aiyuk and CeeDee Lamb are not satisfied with contract offers, so there is still a chance. Rework Josh’s contract again to get some more cap space?

is there a chance at the:

Lions Jameson Williams?
Rams Tutu Atwell?

Chargers Quentin Johnston?

Raiders DaVonte Adam’s?

 

others?
 

 

 

 

This is called a “pipe dream.”