Receivers the Bills could go after?

[BeastMaster]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I didn't miss the point.   A lot of fans on here think that KC's WR's have sucked the past two years and that they've won in spite of them.  

 

They are wrong.  They have had a WR1 level producer in every season since Mahomes has been there.

 

Add in the GOAT split TE in Travis Kelce and they had 2 of the top pass catchers in the NFL yet again last season.

 

Could Kincaid or Shakir or Keon give the Bills two of the top 32 pass catchers in the NFL?   Perhaps but it was less likely than when KC brought back the 1338 yard 12 TD Kelce to go along with 3 early picks in the 2022-2023 drafts.

 

KC hedged their bets by having 3 players who were seen as round 1 or round 2 prospects in those drafts........and one of them panned out.   The Bills need to go 1 for 1.  

 

And Coleman has nowhere near the experience and production that Rice had coming out of SMU so expecting him to excel as quickly is asking A LOT.   Rice put up more than twice the yardage that Coleman did in their final seasons and twice the catches and yardage for their careers.   

The fact that you keep making my point for me and that my original point is still lost on you is really something 

 

Yes, the KC offense has still been good enough to not just win, but to win it all despite getting rid of a top flight WR in Tyreek Hill and replacing him with average wideouts speaks to the value of a great offensive scheme and a QB that operates it to perfection. Sure, they have Kelce, but we have Kincaid. They replaced Hill with JAGS and drafted some guys...we did the same. And you can try to say Rice was more accomplished than Keon, but it's nowhere near an apples to apples comparison. Different offense in different conferences means something. We could've drafted another wideout, but that's nowhere near a guarantee that he pans out (see Skyy Moore). We signed Samuel, who will likely be more productive than any second or third rounder we would've picked.

 

We have basically copied what KC has done by drafting a pass catching TE and let our overpaid headache walk and replaced with draft picks and middling aqusitions via free agency. 

 

All the pearl clutching and belly aching is silly until we see how Josh does with this group in this offense

[C.Biscuit97]

20 hours ago, Roundybout said:

I have zero interest in Q. Johnston, and I doubt the Lions are going to give up Williams. 

 

Would love to give Pittsburgh a second for Pickens. They need draft capital. 

Pickens could be one of the best receivers in the nfl. He also is a giant head case without the resume and contract. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Christian Watson could probably be had for a 3rd or 4th Rd pk.

I think they really like their receiving core and have very high hopes this year. Watson also really struggles fo stay healthy. 

[HappyDays]

55 minutes ago, LLCoolCy said:

 

I suspect this is sarcasm and means Beane should have taken a 2nd WR. Reality none of these 3-4 round WRs would likely be a solution to this years team. 

 

Malachi Corley - Currently a 5th WR slot only behind Wilson, William and X Gibson (slot).  

Jermaine Burton - 4th WR behind Chase, Higgins, and Iosivas.

Roman Wilson - hurt, playing behind Pickens, Jefferson and Austin entering camp. 

Jalen McMillan - Likely winning a top 3 starters role. - This one would have helped. 

Luke McCaffrey - Slot only some positive buzz but all the WR after McLaurin haven't earned a locked in spot. 

Troy Franklin - 6th WR, Staff has already indicated this will be a Red Shirt year for him

Javon Baker - Couple flash plays but behind Bourne, Douglas, and K.J Osborn right now.  

Tez Walker - Has played every preseason game unlike all the Baltimore Starters. Reports he's having trouble adjusting and not likely to have a major role year 1.

 

Good exercise to actually go through the options and see that a 3rd or4th round WR likely wouldn't break the top 3 in Buffalo this year (other than potentially McMillian). 

Plus taking one of those WR means losing Ray Davis and DeWayne Carter both who have already flashed and will be contributors year 1. 

 

You could play this game with our picks too.

 

Cole Bishop - Was firmly playing a backup role before suffering an injury and now his path onto the field is questionable in his rookie season.

 

DeWayne Carter - Firmly entrenched as a backup/rotational DT and has not shown any real flashes so far.

 

Ray Davis - Backup at the least important position on the offense.

 

And other than Javon Baker, every one of these WRs is playing behind a better set of pass catchers than what we're trotting out this year. Jermaine Burton isn't going to beat out Tee Higgins, but beating out Mack Hollins? Yeah I would rather have that chance over any of the 3 picks we made after Coleman.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

I think Beane will wait to see where cuts from around the league settle out before he makes a move.  He may also not feel a need to do anything and stand pat.

There also some teams that are desperate for o-line help that might give up a receiver in a trade.  The Bills o-line play in the second preseason game could make some of the backups attractive trade bait.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Total myth. Name one WR that Mahomes "made." Not Toney, not MVS, not Skyy Moore. Tyreek Hill has had the most production of his career in Miami. QBs elevate overall passing production, they don't elevate passing talent.

Eh, he made that bottom 5 group of WRs win the SB. Taking out Josh, there’s not another qb in the nfl that wins the SB with that crappy group. 
 

of course, their margin of error was super slim because of this crappy wrs. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

The fact that you keep making my point for me and that my original point is still lost on you is really something 

 

Yes, the KC offense has still been good enough to not just win, but to win it all despite getting rid of a top flight WR in Tyreek Hill and replacing him with average wideouts speaks to the value of a great offensive scheme and a QB that operates it to perfection. Sure, they have Kelce, but we have Kincaid. They replaced Hill with JAGS and drafted some guys...we did the same. And you can try to say Rice was more accomplished than Keon, but it's nowhere near an apples to apples comparison. Different offense in different conferences means something. We could've drafted another wideout, but that's nowhere near a guarantee that he pans out (see Skyy Moore). We signed Samuel, who will likely be more productive than any second or third rounder we would've picked.

 

We have basically copied what KC has done by drafting a pass catching TE and let our overpaid headache walk and replaced with draft picks and middling aqusitions via free agency. 

 

All the pearl clutching and belly aching is silly until we see how Josh does with this group in this offense

 

 

So you've gone from KC had "nothing" at WR to "average" and still think I missed your point?

 

Being a WR1 producer is obviously not AVERAGE.   They got WR1 production from Juju and Rice each of the last two years.

 

With Mahomes they have ALWAYS had 2 pass catchers that would have been the top pass catcher on a number of other teams.   The Bills have not.   Even with Diggs in 2021, 2022 and 2023.  

 

You are trying to cherry pick from apple and orange trees.   It's not working. 

[C.Biscuit97]

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's pretty simple. The Bills let their top 2 WRs walk this offseason (I 100% agreed with those decisions by the way), but they had an opportunity to refresh the room with a historically top heavy and deep WR draft. They instead drafted a single WR, and spent the rest of their middle round picks on a safety, a backup DT, and a backup RB. There was no amount of spin that justified it at the time and it looks even worse now. I'm prepared for people to blame injuries when the passing offense takes a big step back, but this regime intentionally decided to leave themselves dreadfully thin at the position.

Agree 100%. I would have kept Diggs another year but I can understand it with the distraction he was becoming. But it is insane they didn’t take multiple WRs in this draft and are majnly relying on castoffs from other teams. 
 

we see if all the time that you draft a guy in the same position in the draft and the later drafted guy turns out to be the better player: McCargo, Kyle Williams; Hayden Hurst, Mark Andrews; RG3, Kirk Cousins. They left themselves no room for error plus rookies are cheaper. 

[GoBills808]

the lions are counting on jameson williams this season so i doubt he is on the table

 

love his game fwiw, he might be legitimately the fastest player in the league

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Pickens could be one of the best receivers in the nfl. He also is a giant head case without the resume and contract. 

pickens is one of the most fun wideouts to watch

 

talent is bonkers

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh, he made that bottom 5 group of WRs win the SB. Taking out Josh, there’s not another qb in the nfl that wins the SB with that crappy group. 
 

of course, their margin of error was super slim because of this crappy wrs. 

 

The Chiefs scored 3 points in the 1st half and then Mahomes threw a terrible INT coming out of halftime that gave the 49ers the ball at the 50. It's nice that they were able to beat an elite team with that game script but no chance we could replicate that IMO. For a myriad of reasons we shouldn't be using the Chiefs' season last year as any kind of barometer for the type of team we need to win a championship. Pointing to the quality of their WRs is just a last-ditch bad-faith effort some make to excuse how little our regime has invested into the position.

[Success]

This is all a pretty premature freak-out.

 

They have said Samuel is week to week. That means it's low grade.  There is probably a very good chance he's playing week 1.

 

It's not like we're all of a sudden in a more dire situation than a month ago.  The WR group was always going to be a question mark this year.  I don't chalk this up as some "Beane fail" or anything.  Another WR pick in the 4th round wasn't going to make any discernible difference this season.

 

 

[Logic]

I'll play along with the "who should the Bills go after at WR" game.

I don't think the Bills are going to trade for a WR. I wish they would, but I don't think they will.

IF they were going to do it, though, one target that I think would be both realistic and attainable, from both a compensation and contract cost standpoint, is Marvin Mims from the Broncos.

Depending who you ask, he rangers anywhere from 2nd to 5th on the Broncos depth chart. Crucially, though, Sean Payton seems to be consciously moving the Broncos WR corps to a more size-based approach. Mims only saw ONE preseason snap last week. That may be an indication that he has a starting spot locked up, or it MAY be an indication that -- like last year -- he has fallen somewhat out of favor with the coaching staff.

He his a fast, twitchy receiver with RAC ability who could be the Bills kick and punt returner AND -- if necessary -- fill in for Samuel as the "motion guy"/diverse and movable chess piece.

He's 5'11", 182 lbs, and had over 1000 yards and 6 TDs as a JR at Oklahoma. I like him a lot and I think the Broncos, for whatever reason, are wasting him.

I think an early day three 2025 pick could get the job done, and would be a worthwhile move to make.

 

3 minutes ago, Success said:

Another WR pick in the 4th round wasn't going to make any discernible difference this season.

You simply don't know that.

Amon Ra St Brown was a 4th round pick and had over 900 yards as a rookie. Puka Nacua was a 5th round pick and had over 1400 yards as a receiver. Stefon Diggs himself was a 5th round pick and posted over 700 yards as a rookie. You can say that the PROBABILITY of a day three pick making a difference is low, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It absolutely does. And the only way to have a shot at that type of "outlier" is to take a swing at it. Even if a day three WR pick has, say, a 10% chance at making a difference, that's still higher than the 0% chance at WR productivity the Bills get by not taking one at all.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Success said:

Another WR pick in the 4th round wasn't going to make any discernible difference this season.

 

We just don't know that. What we do know is that besides Coleman (and Shakir to a certain extent) we have exactly zero upside waiting in the wings. So when an injury inevitably happens, we have no one that can even possibly step into the role and produce at an above average level. If say Burton or McMillan were on the team this year, the fanbase would be disappointed in Samuel's injury but excited to see our other rookie get a shot. And if we're counting this as a retooling season which I am fine with, getting young WR talent in the room now also would have set us up better for 2025. Instead we have exactly one prospect that we're banking on for the future.

 

Like I said before there is no spin that can excuse the lack of investment. It was a known problem months ago and the spotlight has only gotten bigger in the wake of Samuel's injury.

[Success]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

You simply don't know that.

Amon Ra St Brown was a 4th round pick and had over 900 yards as a rookie. Puka Nacua was a 5th round pick and had over 1400 yards as a receiver. Stefon Diggs himself was a 5th round pick and posted over 700 yards as a rookie. You can say that the PROBABILITY of a day three pick making a difference is low, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It absolutely does. And the only way to have a shot at that type of "outlier" is to take a swing at it. Even if a day three WR pick has, say, a 10% chance at making a difference, that's still higher than the 0% chance at WR productivity the Bills get by not taking one at all.

 

Fair.  

 

But couldn't you say the same about a Hollins or Hamler?  I get that we can see how they've actually done in the NFL - but we've also seen great QB's get the best out of receivers who were previously unheralded pretty often throughout the years.  Manning & Brady were most notable on that front.

[RobbRiddick]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Chiefs scored 3 points in the 1st half and then Mahomes threw a terrible INT coming out of halftime that gave the 49ers the ball at the 50. It's nice that they were able to beat an elite team with that game script but no chance we could replicate that IMO. For a myriad of reasons we shouldn't be using the Chiefs' season last year as any kind of barometer for the type of team we need to win a championship. Pointing to the quality of their WRs is just a last-ditch bad-faith effort some make to excuse how little our regime has invested into the position.

 

People call me a Mahomes hater but I maintain the main reason they won last year was Reid. He figured out a way late in the year to scheme those guys open (and Kielce as well who was struggling for a lot of the year).

 

Early in the season Mahomes was having to do too much and play super man (that's what the media guys defending his rough play earlier in the season were saying) and that was the reason he was throwing ints and the Chiefs were losing games. Once Reid figured out what he had KC started winning more consistently again. That Kielce TD in the game against us says it all. The guy was about 10 yards away from the nearest defender. All Mahomes had to do was toss it to him, then he gets all the credit for slaying the Bills again. Obviously their defense helped hugely as well, although in the playoffs the Bills had a lot of success against them.

[Alphadawg7]

Aren’t some of you over reacting about a week to week injury?  Quite possible Samuel doesn’t even miss any time.  

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Fair.  

 

But couldn't you say the same about a Hollins or Hamler?  I get that we can see how they've actually done in the NFL - but we've also seen great QB's get the best out of receivers who were previously unheralded pretty often throughout the years.  Manning & Brady were most notable on that front.

mack hollins and kj hamler had 226 and 381 yards as rookies respectively so no, you cant say the same about them. they are known quantities

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

People call me a Mahomes hater but I maintain the main reason they won last year was Reid. He figured out a way late in the year to scheme those guys open (and Kielce as well who was struggling for a lot of the year).

 

Early in the season Mahomes was having to do too much and play super man (that's what the media guys defending his rough play earlier in the season were saying) and that was the reason he was throwing ints and the Chiefs were losing games. Once Reid figured out what he had KC started winning more consistently again. That Kielce TD in the game against us says it all. The guy was about 10 yards away from the nearest defender. All Mahomes had to do was toss it to him, then he gets all the credit for slaying the Bills again. Obviously their defense helped hugely as well, although in the playoffs the Bills had a lot of success against them.

Reid won nothing before Mahomes; was laughed at for his time management; and got fired in Philly. He identified Mahomes, traded up in the draft for him when they had a serviceable qb who took them to the playoffs.

 

Reid is a very good offensive coach. Mahkmes has had the best start to his career of any qb in history and now Reid is looked as an all time great coach. So yes, you have to be a hater to not understand how good Mahomes. With that receiving core last year, that is one of the worst teams in the nfl. 

[Logic]

5 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Fair.  

 

But couldn't you say the same about a Hollins or Hamler?  I get that we can see how they've actually done in the NFL - but we've also seen great QB's get the best out of receivers who were previously unheralded pretty often throughout the years.  Manning & Brady were most notable on that front.

I'll grant you KJ Hamler. He was a productive college receiver chosen in the 2nd round whose only downfall thus far has been an inability to stay healthy.

I don't think it needed to be either/or, though. Taking a day three WR wouldn't have impacted the Bills' ability to bring Hamler to camp.

In any case, I just don't think the Bills take enough swing at WR in the draft, particularly considering the importance of the position in the 2024 NFL. To give just one example, they attack the RB position with greater regularity and aggression and higher draft capital than the WR position, and that just doesn't make any sense to me. I want to see them regularly re-stocking the cupboards with quality receiving options, and they just seem absolutely unwilling to do so.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Aren’t some of you over reacting about a week to week injury?  Quite possible Samuel doesn’t even miss any time.  

The fact that Samuel might be a big loss says a lot about the WRs in the first place. 
 

this is a very meh group with a great qb. There is no one who scares defenses unless Keon makes some dramatic leap. Still it is plenty to win a bunch of games but like KC last year, the margin of error becomes so slim.