Starting WRs?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1/10/13

 

we are going to shoehorn and force this Hollins into a role he doesn’t live up to. His off the field stuff is going to get us to act like he deserves to be a starter. The guy is a 5 on an average team…in absolutely no way should he even be considered a starter but he will be here.

[I'm Spartacus]

1 hour ago, dwight in philly said:

I miss Dubey and Bass 

I miss Bobby Crockett and Billy Joe out of the backfield.

[SoonerBillsFan]

19 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

I guess Curtis Samuel sat out the last game, so that's why we got a lot of Keon, Hollins and Shakir 3 WR looks.

But in 12 personnel and in normal 3 WR sets, who do we expect to be out there?

 

12 - Kincaid, Knox, Samuel and ... Shakir?

3 WRs - Does Hollins start with Samuel and Shakir?  or is Keon in their with Hollins with only one of the slot guys at a time?

 

I can't say I've seen a lot of Samuel and Shakir on the field at the same time but they seem to be our best WRs, by far. Has Samuel been playing Z?

I still find it hard to believe that Hollins is leading the competition for the X role, even if Keon will eventually replace him.

 

 

 

 

12 - Kincaid, Knox, Samuel and ... Shakir.  That is our base 12 set for now.

 

We will see a lot of Coleman and Hollins sprinkled in. By seasons end I would like to see Coleman/ Shakir as 1-2 and Samuel #3/ Used like Debo in SF.  IF the OL can do its job, damn that is tough for Defenses to deal with.

[dwight in philly]

45 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

I miss Bobby Crockett and Billy Joe out of the backfield.

That draft where they got Crockett and Bobby Burnett out of Arkansas was sweet ..

[Warriorspikes51]

I don't see DK Metcalf on this list.   Sigh. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

I hope the saved money is worth burning a year of Josh’s prime. Every other even remotely decent qb is surrounded by better WR talent. We will always be small time. 

[frostbitmic]

Kincaid

Shakir

Samuel

 

Knox is the TE, Kincaid will line up mostly as a WR would and should get the most targets, besides, calling him a TE lessens his pay grade.

[The Jokeman]

12 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Kincaid

Shakir

Samuel

 

Knox is the TE, Kincaid will line up mostly as a WR would and should get the most targets, besides, calling him a TE lessens his pay grade.

Kincaid is certainly a movable part, yet think we could see a base Ace formation with Kincaid at the TE spot and Shakir in slot with Samuel and Coleman on the outside. Yet it wouldn't be crazy to see Kincaid in the slot too if want to give a 4 Wide Out look/Run and Shoot look. Yet Samuel's another one of those pieces that can also lineup at a RB spot and then shift out to WR or stay in for use on running plays like he was used by Brady in Carolina. 

Edited August 19 by The Jokeman

[Mikey152]

21 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You aren't going to have Samuel, Shakir, and Kincaid split out alone. You can do that in 4 WR sets, but I don't think you'll see it alone. If you do, it won't be a regular thing.

 

Samuel is a Tweener that you can split Out on the perimeter half the time. Shakir and Kincaid are pure slots from the WR position.

 

So you're pretty much always going to have at least one of Coleman and Hollins on the Outside. As to whom has the upper leg as the first Outside guy between the two, I assume it's Coleman. But it may be a 50/50 split to start the year.

 

In standard two WR's on the Outside sets, it'll be One of Coleman and Hollins with Samuel on the other side half the time. The other half it'll be Coleman and Hollins with Samuel on the Inside or out of the Backfield.

 

Nothing about his prior usage or what Beane has said about Samuel suggests he'll be used on the Outside more than 50% of the time. And that's the problem with our current room. Our top 3 known commodities are all best served working out of the Slot. But you can't have more than 2 people working out of the slot at once and even putting 2 on requires 4 WR sets, which you aren't going to regularly run. 

Condensed sets...

 

Kincaid/Shakir/Samuel can be in "the slot" and on the line at the same time. The days of a traditional split end are coming to a close with all the two high zone everyone is playing these days.

[benderbender]

23 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

I guess Curtis Samuel sat out the last game, so that's why we got a lot of Keon, Hollins and Shakir 3 WR looks.

But in 12 personnel and in normal 3 WR sets, who do we expect to be out there?

 

12 - Kincaid, Knox, Samuel and ... Shakir?

3 WRs - Does Hollins start with Samuel and Shakir?  or is Keon in their with Hollins with only one of the slot guys at a time?

 

I can't say I've seen a lot of Samuel and Shakir on the field at the same time but they seem to be our best WRs, by far. Has Samuel been playing Z?

I still find it hard to believe that Hollins is leading the competition for the X role, even if Keon will eventually replace him.

How were we supposed to evaluate our first team WRs without the starter to throw to them? It was the waste of a game. You only get so many chances to practice under live fire and McD punted. Any guesses we have are just that because Trubisky was shell shocked before he injured himself. 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

Condensed sets...

 

Kincaid/Shakir/Samuel can be in "the slot" and on the line at the same time. The days of a traditional split end are coming to a close with all the two high zone everyone is playing these days.

 

If you condense the set, someone is still going to be on the Outside lined up on a Boundary CB. 

[Fan in San Diego]

Curis Samual has turf toe. Just cut MVS and sign another WR.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Samuel is now week to week with a toe injury.  This probably explains some of the combinations we have been seeing.  Maybe we will be seeing more 12 personnel in the short term.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Of course-  that’s why I say the Brady is the biggest factor.  We have the HOf QB-  we have a TE that can dominate and has HoF upside.  Pretty sure Kincaid is capable of 93-984-5.  We need the play caller.  The guy that can put it all together….on both offense  and defense.  We’ve yet to have that and it matters.  

 

Keeping this on the surface of your statements-  as if having a WR with multiple  all pro seasons would actually change the outcome….. we’ve seen that it does not.  We’ve seen HoF DC Spags take away Diggs in 3 straight playoff games.  We’ve seen the Bucs spank the chiefs D in the SB by pounding the rock and throwing to the TE and RBs all game.  Evans and godwin combined for 3 catches.  Brown had 5-22.

There was no way we could’ve added added 2 star WRs this offseason.  That certainly would’ve been nice.  We have 3 guys that have proven they can get open, catch and run.  They just haven’t been featured (and/or lacked capable QBs).  They will this season.  I think we need a championship caliber play caller and sufficient OL play more than we need a star WR room.  

 

 

Like I said........for many, many reasons their passing game doesn't project to be as good as the Chiefs did.   You may very optimistically claim that Kincaid (or Shakir and Samuel for that matter) have "HOF upside" coming off 600 yard receiving seasons........but the Chiefs had 3 HOF locks.   Kelce was coming off 1338 yards and 12 TD's.     

[benderbender]

On 8/18/2024 at 4:57 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

12 - Kincaid, Knox, Coleman, and a mix of Samuel/Shakir 

 

12 wrinkle - line up Samuel in the backfield and go Kincaid, Knox, Coleman, and Hollins. Then motion Samuel out. If they catch them in man coverage it's a TD

 

12 wrinkle 2 - Kincaid, Knox, Samuel, and MVS. Cook or Davis in the backfield. This set will be lethal. They can run WR deep and the TEs will be open underneath. If they play man you have some guys that can win some 1:1 deep shots. And last you have multiple screen options out of this group

 

3 WR - any combo plus Shakir. Shakir is going to be amazing out of the 3 WR set. He can play the Brown or Beasley role interchangeably.  He has enough quickness and enough speed to go short, middle, or deep. He will be the 3rd down chain mover.

12 would count on Knox being in the lineup consistently. Believe me, I'm hoping. But he's definitely not the sturdiest. Perhaps could actually be the hurt-iest. I'd place bets on Kincaid and Davidson if he makes the 53. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Like I said........for many, many reasons their passing game doesn't project to be as good as the Chiefs did.   You may very optimistically claim that Kincaid (or Shakir and Samuel for that matter) have "HOF upside" coming off 600 yard receiving seasons........but the Chiefs had 3 HOF locks.   Kelce was coming off 1338 yards and 12 TD's.     

Correct-  I guess the HoF title means a lot more to you than it does to me.  I really just look at current player ability.  I see Josh as very close to Mahomes, with the ability to be better on any given day.  I think the current ability of Kincaid is very close to the current ability of Travis Kelce.  Maybe not as good, but not that far off.  That’s what’s on the field Sundays-  

 

Kcs playcalling >>>> Buffalos

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, benderbender said:

12 would count on Knox being in the lineup consistently. Believe me, I'm hoping. But he's definitely not the sturdiest. Perhaps could actually be the hurt-iest. I'd place bets on Kincaid and Davidson if he makes the 53. 

I can't defend Knox any longer. He's one of my favorite players. At this point however,  I'm not getting back on the bandwagon until I see it. 

Davidson is intriguing.  See no reason why they shouldn't keep him over Morris. Oh wait I can. McD has his favorites and Morris is one of them

[TBBills Fan]

On 8/18/2024 at 5:24 PM, hondo in seattle said:

 

I miss Reed & Lofton.

Don't forget Don Bebee 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

I hope the saved money is worth burning a year of Josh’s prime. Every other even remotely decent qb is surrounded by better WR talent. We will always be small time. 

At this point it doesn't matter anymore.  This organization will continue to waste Josh and have an excuse ready and waiting. The Angels did the same with Trout & Ohtani.

[DaVinci]

The sun is setting on the Bean McDermott era