Starting WRs?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 minutes ago, DeepPass said:

I agree about Coleman - a disappointment.  NFL cornerbacks seem to have figured him out already.  But with back-up QB's throwing to him he's going to look lost!

Coleman is just going to take some time to develop. I expect him to contribute with some splash plays, but don’t think he will come right in and be a star. 
 

I am not super worried about the receivers. I think we are going to see Shakir and Kincaid get the main targets, and Samuel and the RBs get the quick stuff and screens. The other guys will get sprinkled in; they just need to make the most of their few targets. 

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

In the meantime, everyone feel free to express your potentially fluctuating opinion daily even if some jag thinks you aren't relaxed enough. 

 

Those jags behind their screen right now:

 

 

[NewEra]

Doesn’t really matter- it’s all on Brady

[MJS]

1 hour ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

From everyone saying he could be cut last year in camp to our number one receiver. 

Really? I don't remember that. He was a very popular draft pick.

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

YOU need to relax.   It's only week one, for chrissakes! 

 

As I've said before.........you look at the team you took to camp and then you do the autopsy at the end of the season.   They took a bottom of the league WR corps to camp.   We won't know for certain if the plan worked until the end of the season.

 

In the meantime, everyone feel free to express your potentially fluctuating opinion daily even if some jag thinks you aren't relaxed enough. 

As we’ve all said before-  prior to the season KC had the worst WRs in the league last season.  Zero 900 yard WRs.  Zero 800 yard WR.  Zero 700 yard WRs.  
 

With the proper QB, TE and offensive play caller, great success can be had.  

 

Unfortunately i’m more sold on our WRs than I am sold on Brady.  The thing that gives me the most hope about him calling plays is knowing that he had crap QBs in the nfl prior to joining the Bills.   That’s not a lot of hope, but I’m trying to remain optimistic.  I definitely think there will be some growing pains this year, but they could gel come playoffs….  We just have to make it.  Right now, i think it’s about 55-45 that we make it considering the schedule and the inevitable injuries to our best players.  End rant

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Shakir will be the #1.  Hands down.  He will put up #1 stats. 

I agree he’ll be our leading WR.  Josh trusts him and he’s pretty dam good.  It seems like he’s really putting in the work to improve.  

[FireChans]

Man I just do not know what to expect with the WR’s.

 

I guess I’d expect us to be near the lead in the league in bunch sets? 
 

It’s hard to imagine lining up both Samuel and Shakir on non-bunches and finding success. 
 

I like the idea of lining up in traditional 12 then motioning into a bunch set with Samuel and Kincaid and playing find the LB. 
 

Ultimately, this team feels like they need an elite mismatch guy and a creative OC and they can be pretty dangerous. Whether that’s optimistic or damning with faint praise is hard to tell

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Man I just do not know what to expect with the WR’s.

 

I guess I’d expect us to be near the lead in the league in bunch sets? 
 

It’s hard to imagine lining up both Samuel and Shakir on non-bunches and finding success. 
 

I like the idea of lining up in traditional 12 then motioning into a bunch set with Samuel and Kincaid and playing find the LB. 
 

Ultimately, this team feels like they need an elite mismatch guy and a creative OC and they can be pretty dangerous. Whether that’s optimistic or damning with faint praise is hard to tell

Agree with all of this- minus the part about not finding success when lining up both shakir and Samuel in non bunch alignments. Both are capable of running routes on the outside.  We’re going to see it, we just aren’t going to see it the majority of the time.  

[Paup 1995MVP]

3 hours ago, jahnyc said:

Our outside WRs are bad.  Unreasonable to think that Coleman could be our X WR on day one as a rookie.

Hollins isn’t bad.  And Coleman will be good once he gets comfortable in the NFL.  Put Shakir outside if we have to.  He may very well turn into a top ten WR in the league this year.  He is super twitchy with great hands. 

[FireChans]

Just now, NewEra said:

Agree with all of this- minus the part about not finding success when lining up both shakir and Samuel in non bunch alignments. Both are capable of running routes on the outside.  We’re going to see it, we just aren’t going to see it the majority of the time.  

I don’t know man. 
 

Maybe early we have some success as teams are feeling out Brady.
 

But sooner or later, teams with the horses are gonna get in their grills and test if they can get off the line.

 

Brady will need to be ready with a counterpunch. We have all seen what it looks like when the OC doesn’t have one,

[BigAl2526]

If Buffalo lines up with 2 receivers, I'm guessing the two will be Samuel and Shakir.  They'll rotate in Coleman and even Hollis though.  If they go with three receivers, I don't know whether Hollis or Coleman will be the first guy in.  The only way Coleman is going to get better is by playing. Choosing between them may be affected by the situation more than anything.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don’t know man. 
 

Maybe early we have some success as teams are feeling out Brady.
 

But sooner or later, teams with the horses are gonna get in their grills and test if they can get off the line.

 

Brady will need to be ready with a counterpunch. We have all seen what it looks like when the OC doesn’t have one,

I don’t think both are going to be out wide very often, rather a handful of times per game.  I doubt they face press every time they’re out side.  
 

Brady will make or break our season imo. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

Shakir and somebody

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Coleman is just going to take some time to develop. I expect him to contribute with some splash plays, but don’t think he will come right in and be a star. 
 

I am not super worried about the receivers. I think we are going to see Shakir and Kincaid get the main targets, and Samuel and the RBs get the quick stuff and screens. The other guys will get sprinkled in; they just need to make the most of their few targets. 

Agreed- but I’d add samuel that Samuel will get some deep balls.  He knows how to play the ball better than a lot of “outside” WRs

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

As we’ve all said before-  prior to the season KC had the worst WRs in the league last season.  Zero 900 yard WRs.  Zero 800 yard WR.  Zero 700 yard WRs.  
 

With the proper QB, TE and offensive play caller, great success can be had.  

 

Unfortunately i’m more sold on our WRs than I am sold on Brady.  The thing that gives me the most hope about him calling plays is knowing that he had crap QBs in the nfl prior to joining the Bills.   That’s not a lot of hope, but I’m trying to remain optimistic.  I definitely think there will be some growing pains this year, but they could gel come playoffs….  We just have to make it.  Right now, i think it’s about 55-45 that we make it considering the schedule and the inevitable injuries to our best players.  End rant

I agree he’ll be our leading WR.  Josh trusts him and he’s pretty dam good.  It seems like he’s really putting in the work to improve.  

 

 

Prior to last season the Chiefs had 3 first ballot HOF'ers(Reid,Mahomes, Kelce) leading their passing game.    First ballot locks if they had all quit prior to the season. They had won 2 of the last 4 SB's and had two of the top 32 receiving yardage leaders for 5 consecutive seasons.......even after trading Tyreek.  

 

Contrast that with the 2024 Bills passing game.   They've been outperformed in the passing game by KC every year since 2020(which was the last time the Bills had two receivers in the top 32 in yardage).   If Allen retired tomorrow there is no HOF in his future.   He's Randall Cunningham or Mike Vick if it ends now.   Not even Cam Newton level yet because no SB appearance and no MVP award.  It was fun, but that's about it.   Brady? Kincaid?  Shakir?  Samuel?    Not even Hall of worth mentioning yet.

 

So it's pretty clear why the Chiefs might warrant the benefit of the doubt.   Is it not?   Is it really apples to apples when the Bills are as unproven by comparison?

 

But why were the Chiefs WR deficient in the first place?   Because they had 2022 1st and 2nd round picks on the team(guys who had made big plays and scored TD's in their most recent SB win) and a 2023 second round pick WR.  They were expecting those highly invested, high pedigree players to breakout and complement the already great Kelce and a receiver in MVS who had produced more yards in 2022 than any of the Bills current weapons did in 2023.   More than Kincaid, Shakir or Samuel.   

 

A lot went wrong..........but as usual they still finished with 2 of the top 32 receiving yardage leaders because Rice became a WR1 during the season.   They even rested their starters in week 18 and still ranked that highly.

 

So like I said........you judge what they took to camp which was unproven but made some sense given their investments made in Moore/Toney/Rice.   Then look at the autopsy.   The autopsy says they finished 3rd in pass completions and 6th in passing yards so their passing game was actually really good.  

 

And their season only ended because they ran out of teams to beat.  

 

If the Bills do that,  great.  But they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt like HOF'ers with rings.   Sorry.

 

 

Edited August 19 by BADOLBILZ

[Pete]

12 hours ago, Utah John said:

4.62 40 in 2021.  If you think Coleman is slow...

 

But putting another really big guy out there would be very interesting.  The two starting TEs are 6'4" and 6'5".  Most of the WRs are 6'3" or taller. Davidson is 6'7".  It would be strange to see a Bills huddle where Josh Allen is one of the short guys.  (OK, that's an exaggeration, but maybe the Bills are going to try winning with bulk.)

Jerry Rice was slow.  Anquan Boldin was slower

[colin]

we are not going to look as set at the wr and offensive sets as we did at the beginning of last season.  remember diggs putting on an absolute clinic vs the jets day one in a game we lost due to allen turning the ball over 4 times (and i think davis was basically the reason for two of them)?

 

a mix and match wr group, supplemented by what i expect to be top 5 TE and RB production is our key to getting our wins early in the season.  the d remains to be seen, but i fully expect it to be solidly top 10 and possibly top 5 (we were like 8 last year after some shocking let downs vs the jags, new england, and so on).

 

imo we will make our money with play action and allen going off script.  we have what looks like solid wr blocking for the first time since allen got here.  i've always thought allen with a legit running game (away from his own legs) is a scary sight, and i think we have that more than ever this season.  especially early, because the past 2 seasons cook was on the bench for the first 7 or so weeks.

[Sweats]

16 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

I'm not sure MVS makes the squad at this point. Claypool is gone. Coleman looks lost/ineffective.

So far Hollins is the only signing besides Samuel that is making a decent contribution. And that's not exactly comforting.

Dare we look at the trade market a little more in earnest??

 

 

 

 

This post looks a little lost and ineffective......JA played for 1 quarter in 2 games and Coleman wasn't the only player on the field. Also, how do you expect any WR in pre-season to do anything when Trubisky is throwing the ball?

[dwight in philly]

17 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I miss Lewis & Butler

I miss Dubey and Bass 

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Prior to last season the Chiefs had 3 first ballot HOF'ers(Reid,Mahomes, Kelce) leading their passing game.    First ballot locks if they had all quit prior to the season. They had won 2 of the last 4 SB's and had two of the top 32 receiving yardage leaders for 5 consecutive seasons.......even after trading Tyreek.  

 

Contrast that with the 2024 Bills passing game.   They've been outperformed in the passing game by KC every year since 2020(which was the last time the Bills had two receivers in the top 32 in yardage).   If Allen retired tomorrow there is no HOF in his future.   He's Randall Cunningham or Mike Vick if it ends now.   Not even Cam Newton level yet because no SB appearance and no MVP award.  It was fun, but that's about it.   Brady? Kincaid?  Shakir?  Samuel?    Not even Hall of worth mentioning yet.

 

So it's pretty clear why the Chiefs might warrant the benefit of the doubt.   Is it not?   Is it really apples to apples when the Bills are as unproven by comparison?

 

But why were the Chiefs WR deficient in the first place?   Because they had 2022 1st and 2nd round picks on the team(guys who had made big plays and scored TD's in their most recent SB win) and a 2023 second round pick WR.  They were expecting those highly invested, high pedigree players to breakout and complement the already great Kelce and a receiver in MVS who had produced more yards in 2022 than any of the Bills current weapons did in 2023.   More than Kincaid, Shakir or Samuel.   

 

A lot went wrong..........but as usual they still finished with 2 of the top 32 receiving yardage leaders because Rice became a WR1 during the season.   They even rested their starters in week 18 and still ranked that highly.

 

So like I said........you judge what they took to camp which was unproven but made some sense given their investments made in Moore/Toney/Rice.   Then look at the autopsy.   The autopsy says they finished 3rd in pass completions and 6th in passing yards so their passing game was actually really good.  

 

And their season only ended because they ran out of teams to beat.  

 

If the Bills do that,  great.  But they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt like HOF'ers with rings.   Sorry.

 

 

Of course-  that’s why I say the Brady is the biggest factor.  We have the HOf QB-  we have a TE that can dominate and has HoF upside.  Pretty sure Kincaid is capable of 93-984-5.  We need the play caller.  The guy that can put it all together….on both offense  and defense.  We’ve yet to have that and it matters.  

 

Keeping this on the surface of your statements-  as if having a WR with multiple  all pro seasons would actually change the outcome….. we’ve seen that it does not.  We’ve seen HoF DC Spags take away Diggs in 3 straight playoff games.  We’ve seen the Bucs spank the chiefs D in the SB by pounding the rock and throwing to the TE and RBs all game.  Evans and godwin combined for 3 catches.  Brown had 5-22.

There was no way we could’ve added added 2 star WRs this offseason.  That certainly would’ve been nice.  We have 3 guys that have proven they can get open, catch and run.  They just haven’t been featured (and/or lacked capable QBs).  They will this season.  I think we need a championship caliber play caller and sufficient OL play more than we need a star WR room.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

18 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

I guess Curtis Samuel sat out the last game, so that's why we got a lot of Keon, Hollins and Shakir 3 WR looks.

But in 12 personnel and in normal 3 WR sets, who do we expect to be out there?

 

12 - Kincaid, Knox, Samuel and ... Shakir?

3 WRs - Does Hollins start with Samuel and Shakir?  or is Keon in their with Hollins with only one of the slot guys at a time?

 

I can't say I've seen a lot of Samuel and Shakir on the field at the same time but they seem to be our best WRs, by far. Has Samuel been playing Z?

I still find it hard to believe that Hollins is leading the competition for the X role, even if Keon will eventually replace him.

 

 

 

 

 

I think it'll be a variety in 11.  Depends on how you plan to line up, 3x1 seems likely to be their bread and butter so your 1 options are samuel (speed), coleman/hollins (size), Kincaid (mismatch).  In the bunch you would likely have coleman/kincaid on the LOS, and samuel and shakir off the LOS.