Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 2

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Brandon beane doesn't belong on this list, because if you can't nail top two round picks regularly, what's the point?

 

That's how you end up with a "good" roster that lacks game changing talent.

Otherwise, this is a decent enough list 

 

I will say, however, it seems he knows how to draft and find tight ends, which is a plot twist 

 

 

exactly re: Bean.  great mid-round drafter, but we need more elite talent.  Watching Worthy score TDs all over for KC and Coleman drop a TD was annoying.  

[MikePJ76]

5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

exactly re: Bean.  great mid-round drafter, but we need more elite talent.  Watching Worthy score TDs all over for KC and Coleman drop a TD was annoying.  

OMG Coleman has not dropped anything.  If he had a decent qb playing with him these past two weeks he would have had two TD's.  He doesn't because of two horrendous throws.

 

Worthy was wide open on what looked like a blown coverage.

 

Other than that he had two other plays, one should not have counted as he was moving forward before the snap, so much so that trent green laughed during the broadcast, it was clearly illegal motion on worthy.

 

his other catch I saw he fumbled and got lucky the ball came right back to him.

 

If everyone here wants to be a chicken little over worthy that is their right.

 

The bills got Coleman and Carter out of that trade.  

Edited August 18 by MikePJ76

[HappyDays]

The WRs as a whole have had a poor preseason. I know people use the excuse of "you can't evaluate them with this QB play" but other teams' backup QBs are finding ways to move the ball and score TDs in preseason. Our supposedly great WR depth hasn't showed up at all. Hollins is showing zero separation out there, MVS has 1 catch in two games (hopefully his neck is okay), Shavers and other guys vying for the WR6 spot have all but vanished. Also to my eyes it looks like the game is moving too fast for Coleman right now, he has a lot of learning still to do before he is ready to be a primary outside WR.

 

As of right now I only feel good about Shakir and Samuel (and only good, not great, at that), and if Samuel ever misses time as is very possible with his body type we are in serious danger of fielding a 2018-esque WR corps.

 

Defenses are quickly going to learn to clog the middle of the field to slow down our TEs and RBs and slots and dare our outside WRs to punish them for it. Based on what I've seen in preseason I'm not remotely convinced they can.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Good list.

 

Rousseau had a funny night. I’ve been hard on him needing to step up as a pass rusher and he put on a show last night.

 

My only quibble is that I think he just did the same pass rush power move over and over and over? I have to rewatch but that’s what it looked like.

 

Rousseau had a very good night although it's fair to note Broderick Jones was playing out of position (he was an LT in college and has been throughout the offseason, I think injury forced him into the RT spot) and apparently he is banged up according to Steelers fans. But there are plenty of bad RTs out there so if Rousseau can take advantage it is still a meaningful development. What struck me is that these weren't clean up sacks, he just straight up won the reps quickly and took the QB down. That ability has been missing from his game. Hopefully it continues.

[harmonkillebrew]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Brandon beane doesn't belong on this list, because if you can't nail top two round picks regularly, what's the point?

 

That's how you end up with a "good" roster that lacks game changing talent.

Otherwise, this is a decent enough list 

 

I will say, however, it seems he knows how to draft and find tight ends, which is a plot twist 

 

Agree. 

The Coleman trade down selection is not looking great so far, coupled with refusing to add a real FA replacement

[MikePJ76]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

The WRs as a whole have had a poor preseason. I know people use the excuse of "you can't evaluate them with this QB play" but other teams' backup QBs are finding ways to move the ball and score TDs in preseason. Our supposedly great WR depth hasn't showed up at all. Hollins is showing zero separation out there, MVS has 1 catch in two games (hopefully his neck is okay), Shavers and other guys vying for the WR6 spot have all but vanished. Also to my eyes it looks like the game is moving too fast for Coleman right now, he has a lot of learning still to do before he is ready to be a primary outside WR.

 

As of right now I only feel good about Shakir and Samuel (and only good, not great, at that), and if Samuel ever misses time as is very possible with his body type we are in serious danger of fielding a 2018-esque WR corps.

 

Defenses are quickly going to learn to clog the middle of the field to slow down our TEs and RBs and slots and dare our outside WRs to punish them for it. Based on what I've seen in preseason I'm not remotely convinced they can.

I am a fan of Darius Slayton and have seen rumblings he would like to be moved.

 

So I am all in on trading a round 5 maybe potentially a conditional 4th for Slayton if the Giants want to move him.  He fits the outside speed role you are referring to and he can actually catch.

 

If MVS is out for a month or something they are in a real bind.  They are going to have to trade for someone and at least Slayton is an average wr who has a really good trait.

[That's No Moon]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

The WRs as a whole have had a poor preseason. I know people use the excuse of "you can't evaluate them with this QB play" but other teams' backup QBs are finding ways to move the ball and score TDs in preseason. Our supposedly great WR depth hasn't showed up at all. Hollins is showing zero separation out there, MVS has 1 catch in two games (hopefully his neck is okay), Shavers and other guys vying for the WR6 spot have all but vanished. Also to my eyes it looks like the game is moving too fast for Coleman right now, he has a lot of learning still to do before he is ready to be a primary outside WR.

 

As of right now I only feel good about Shakir and Samuel (and only good, not great, at that), and if Samuel ever misses time as is very possible with his body type we are in serious danger of fielding a 2018-esque WR corps.

 

Defenses are quickly going to learn to clog the middle of the field to slow down our TEs and RBs and slots and dare our outside WRs to punish them for it. Based on what I've seen in preseason I'm not remotely convinced they can.

After Trubisky went out they didn't really throw the ball the rest of the game. Shorter and Shavers were mostly asked to block and they both did well at that.

[Dillenger4]

13 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

OMG Coleman has not dropped anything.  If he had a decent qb playing with him these past two weeks he would have had two TD's.  He doesn't because of two horrendous throws.

 

Worthy was wide open on what looked like a blown coverage.

 

Other than that he had two other plays, one should not have counted as he was moving forward before the snap, so much so that trent green laughed during the broadcast, it was clearly illegal motion on worthy.

 

his other catch I saw he fumbled and got lucky the ball came right back to him.

 

If everyone here wants to be a chicken little over worthy that is their right.

 

The bills got Coleman and Carter out of that trade.  

Two weeks in a row Coleman has literally turtled when a defender is near him. Scared of being hit! He missed the TD last night, perfect throw in his hands. WTF are u watching?!? He will not start week 1 I bet. He can't separate and is scared to be hit. That's not good. We will see... but so far nothing.

[MikePJ76]

Just now, Dillenger4 said:

Two weeks in a row Coleman has literally turtled when a defender is near him. Scared of being hit! He missed the TD last night, perfect throw in his hands. WTF are u watching?!? He will not start week 1 I bet. He can't separate and is scared to be hit. That's not good. We will see... but so far nothing.

I'm sorry are you saying the slant to Coleman was a perfect throw?  is this what you are saying to me?  

 

and last weeks throw was worse.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

I'm sorry are you saying the slant to Coleman was a perfect throw?  is this what you are saying to me?  

 

and last weeks throw was worse.  

 

Perfect definitely oversells it. So does terrible though. Coleman should have done better with that ball.

24 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

The WRs as a whole have had a poor preseason. I know people use the excuse of "you can't evaluate them with this QB play" but other teams' backup QBs are finding ways to move the ball and score TDs in preseason. Our supposedly great WR depth hasn't showed up at all. Hollins is showing zero separation out there, MVS has 1 catch in two games (hopefully his neck is okay), Shavers and other guys vying for the WR6 spot have all but vanished. Also to my eyes it looks like the game is moving too fast for Coleman right now, he has a lot of learning still to do before he is ready to be a primary outside WR.

 

As of right now I only feel good about Shakir and Samuel (and only good, not great, at that), and if Samuel ever misses time as is very possible with his body type we are in serious danger of fielding a 2018-esque WR corps.

 

Defenses are quickly going to learn to clog the middle of the field to slow down our TEs and RBs and slots and dare our outside WRs to punish them for it. Based on what I've seen in preseason I'm not remotely convinced they can.

 

This, to the letter, is how I feel about the receiver situation right now.

[MikePJ76]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Perfect definitely oversells it. So does terrible though. Coleman should have done better with that ball.

everything about the throw was bad.

 

it was high and it was away.  The two critical points of throwing a slant, never be high and never lead your wr into danger.

 

That throw was a classic medicine ball.  It should have been right on him between the numbers where he can get his hands on it and protect himself or down low where only he can catch it.

 

You never throw a slant high, and you 100% do not throw it where the WR has to completely extend his arms and put him in danger.

 

I am going to keep repeating this today, Bill Walsh's rule, SIX INCHES in front of the numbers.

Edited August 18 by MikePJ76

[Dillenger4]

9 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

I'm sorry are you saying the slant to Coleman was a perfect throw?  is this what you are saying to me?  

 

and last weeks throw was worse.  

 

 

Nope - I'm saying it was 100% catchable and should have been. Especially for a rook trying to make the team. Right through his hands! Literally. He turtled. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BillsDad51 said:

Gunner, your thoughts on Trubisky are spot on. Watching last night with my son, I said Mitch was good in preseason for the Bills  in '21. Some thing happened to him in Pitt. He's playing scared.

 

Not going to take anything away from Trubisky's awful performance but it's possible that there simply isn't a lot of room to fit the ball. For a QB with a slow trigger, a lack of separation would compound how bad he looks. Put a backup QB on the field with a bottom of the barrel WR corps and this is what you get.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, MikePJ76 said:

everything about the throw was bad.

 

it was high and it was away.  The two critical points of throwing a slant, never be high and never lead your wr into danger.

 

That throw was a classic medicine ball.  It should have been right on him between the numbers where he can get his hands on it and protect himself or down low where only he can catch it.

 

You never throw a slant high, and you 100% do not throw it where the WR has to completely extend his arms and put him in dangers.

 

I am going to keep repeating this today, Bill Walsh's rule, SIX INCHES in front of the numbers.

It was a bad throw, but quibbling over how bad is not significant to the future success of the team.

The lack of reliable outside speed is and has been an obvious deficit from before the draft. Beane seems to have had a solid draft (it's promising, at least), but neglecting a crucial facet of the WR room is just not good, and it accentuates the fear that he is simply always going to follow a Carolina paradigm that undervalues the position.

 

That's absolutely criminal when your QB is Josh Allen.

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Two weeks in a row Coleman has literally turtled when a defender is near him. Scared of being hit! He missed the TD last night, perfect throw in his hands. WTF are u watching?!? He will not start week 1 I bet. He can't separate and is scared to be hit. That's not good. We will see... but so far nothing.

It’s PRESEASON. You have no idea if the coaching staff told their top Draft Pick to ‘not get carried away’. 

[Dillenger4]

4 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

everything about the throw was bad.

 

it was high and it was away.  The two critical points of throwing a slant, never be high and never lead your wr into danger.

 

That throw was a classic medicine ball.  It should have been right on him between the numbers where he can get his hands on it and protect himself or down low where only he can catch it.

 

You never throw a slant high, and you 100% do not throw it where the WR has to completely extend his arms and put him in dangers.

 

I am going to keep repeating this today, Bill Walsh's rule, SIX INCHES in front of the numbers.

Here you go - from Brian Baldinger (Baldy breakdown) breakdown:

 

Keon Coleman Fails To Haul In Goal-Line Pass

Share: 

3 mins agoBuffalo Bills wide receiver Keon Coleman made an appearance in Saturday night's preseason victory over the hosting Pittsburgh Steelers at Acrisure Stadium, hauling in one of his three passes for 12 yards in the win. Coleman began the second quarter with a 12-yard reception from a short pass via backup quarterback Mitchell Trubisky on Saturday against Pittsburgh, but it's also worth noting he failed to haul in a would-be touchdown catch despite creating separation on the route later in the period. The rookie second-rounder out of Florida State gives QB Josh Allen a big-bodied wideout to work with alongside slot men Curtis Samuel and Khalil Shakir as well as tight end Dalton Kincaid, but he'll need to make the most of his opportunities to emerge as a consistent WR3/flex fantasy starter in Year 1. There should be ups and downs for Coleman, who profiles as a young Allen Robinson based on workout metrics.

[MikePJ76]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

It was a bad throw, but quibbling over how bad is not significant to the future success of the team.

The lack of reliable outside speed is and has been an obvious deficit from before the draft. Beane seems to have had a solid draft (it's promising, at least), but neglecting a crucial facet of the WR room is just not good, and it accentuates the fear that he is simply always going to follow a Carolina paradigm that undervalues the position.

 

That's absolutely criminal when your QB is Josh Allen.

this might be true but not sure what it has to do with what I said.

 

The fastest man in the universe wasn't catching that ball last night.  Coleman was wide open.  A good ball and he scores there and people today are talking about the good route he ran to get inside the defender and make himself look like a huge target, he was wide open. 

 

If Allen is playing I believe Coleman has a TD in the back of the endzone last week and has an easy pitch and catch on that slant last night for a TD. 

3 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Here you go - from Brian Baldinger (Baldy breakdown) breakdown:

 

Keon Coleman Fails To Haul In Goal-Line Pass

Share: 

3 mins agoBuffalo Bills wide receiver Keon Coleman made an appearance in Saturday night's preseason victory over the hosting Pittsburgh Steelers at Acrisure Stadium, hauling in one of his three passes for 12 yards in the win. Coleman began the second quarter with a 12-yard reception from a short pass via backup quarterback Mitchell Trubisky on Saturday against Pittsburgh, but it's also worth noting he failed to haul in a would-be touchdown catch despite creating separation on the route later in the period. The rookie second-rounder out of Florida State gives QB Josh Allen a big-bodied wideout to work with alongside slot men Curtis Samuel and Khalil Shakir as well as tight end Dalton Kincaid, but he'll need to make the most of his opportunities to emerge as a consistent WR3/flex fantasy starter in Year 1. There should be ups and downs for Coleman, who profiles as a young Allen Robinson based on workout metrics.

I stand by exactly what I said.  It was a bad throw and a huge miss to a wide open wr who won his slant route.

 

There is nothing and no one that will change my mind it was a bad throw.  If you think that was a good throw then fine we see NFL football much differently.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, MikePJ76 said:

this might be true but not sure what it has to do with what I said.

 

The fastest man in the universe wasn't catching that ball last night.  Coleman was wide open.  A good ball and he scores there and people today are talking about the good route he ran to get inside the defender and make himself look like a huge target, he was wide open. 

 

If Allen is playing I believe Coleman has a TD in the back of the endzone last week and has an easy pitch and catch on that slant last night for a TD. 

Yeah, I'm just making a broader point, because there is a fair amount of argument over how one should interpret that particular throw and who is to blame. I think it's a lot of energy devoted to a relatively unimportant play. I agree that Allen at QB likely results in an easy TD.

[mrags]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have explained it multiple times. He learned in Carolina under two GMs who taught him you draft defensive line early and often. I crunched the numbers again the other day. In his years as a senior exec with the Panthers they spent about 30% of day 1 and 2 picks on defensive line and about 50% on defensive front 7 and Beane's numbers are right around those spots too. 

If only he would spend this kind of capital on the offensive side of the ball. Mainly the WR room. You know, to give the best QB this team has ever had, a plethora of options. Instead we get no hands MVS, black sheep of the league Claypool, and a WR that they loved so much they traded down twice to get him. SMH. 

[hondo in seattle]

Torrance's play is worrisome.  I've been a frequent critic of Beane's for not giving Josh an elite bodyguard.   This year we're challenged with Morse's departure and now, possibly, regression by Torrance.  I am not excited.

 

The wideout play is beginning to worry me, too.  I was decidedly so-so (i.e. not negative) with the WR room during the offseason.   I reasoned that Samuel and Shakir are legit starters.  We just needed either Coleman, MVS, or Claypool to step up and fill the other spot.  It seemed likely to me that one would.  Then Claypool went out with a toe, MVS with a neck, and Coleman hasn't done much.  I'm feeling nervous now.