Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 2

[GunnerBill]

Picking the bones out of last week wasn't fun, but I contributed my thoughts in @FireChans thread. There was more positive to go at this week so here goes.....

 

Good Night for...

 

Joe Andreessen - Last week the kid made it for fulfilling a lifelong ambition even if in the game his head appeared to be spinning slightly and it all happened a bit fast for him. But last night, with the Milano situation, Spector injured and Bernard held out, Andreessen got a shot as the starting middle linebacker alongside Dorian Williams and he was impressive. He was diagnosing plays, knifing into the backfield, sticky and fast in coverage and even had an open field tackle on Justin Fields. 12 total tackles, including 2 for loss. I think he might have made the roster last night. Because that performance will have made other teams sit up and notice and the Bills would be taking a risk trying to sneak him onto the practice squad.  

 

Greg Rousseau - I don't usually include proven, guaranteed starters in this thread because they don't really have much to gain or lose in pre-season action but Groot was so good last night that you can't leave him out. 2.5 sacks and 2 tackles for loss in the three defensive series he played. He was a one man wrecking ball and if he could have a breakout season this year similar to the one Ed Oliver had last year we'd all feel better about the Bills pass rush moving forwards.

 

Ray Davis - I wanted to say "all the running backs" in this spot, but it is right to save the biggest bunch of flowers for the rookie Davis who averaged over 7 yards a tote on his 8 carries and ran hard for the Bills. I think he went into camp, at least theoretically, in a battle for the #2 job but Ty Johnson's injury opened the door and Davis has burst through it. It was a good night for all the backs. James Cook looked more decisive behind better run blocking and Darrynton Evans and Frank Gore Jnr who are the likely practice squad backs both had nice nights too. It's a spot where the Bills look to have some depth. 

 

Tylan Grable - I think Grable went into the pre-season games right on the roster bubble but for two weeks in a row I think he has been the most impressive of the Bills backup linemen and last night he switched from right tackle in week one to left tackle. Some of that was likely trying to get a look at Ryan Van Demark at right tackle where 12 months ago he look appreciably worse than on the left side but I don't think it is unreasonable to think another part of the calculation was getting a look at Grable on the blindside. He did not disappoint. He has to make the 53. This kid has not just starter but star potential down the road.

 

Brandon Beane - After including two of his day three picks and one of his UDFAs in the list of good nights I think it is right to give Brandon Beane a bit of a bump based on what we have seen so far. While his days 1 and 2 of the 2024 NFL draft are not yet flashing in the way we might hope man the way he used that glut of day three picks looks pretty good so far. Javon Solomon has been excellent through two pre-season games too, Daequan Hardy showed some juice last night with the ball in his hand and has done some nice things as the second team nickel and Sedrick Van Pran-Granger had another steady outing (albeit mainly by the time the Steeler 3rd team was in). It is true to say the roster was always going to be easier for rookies to make this year given the mini-rebuild, but Davis, Grable, Solomon, Hardy and SVP are all on track to make it.

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Mitch Trubisky - Ugh. In a disaster class of a night from both sets of Quarterbacks, the concerns about Trubisky show no sign of abating. The interception was terrible - Morris wasn't even open if he hadn't overthrown it - but even worse was the sacks he took holding the ball being slow processing the field. I will look again at the all22 because in his defence I didn't see much separation by receivers (more of which later) but Trubisky is making the offensive line look bad. He is indecisive and tentative and he HAS to get the ball out. I think the Bills will stick with him, but there will be concern in the organisation. In his last spell as the backup here Mitch moved the offense pretty easily in pre-season. He looks like he has come back from Pittsburgh a broken man. 

 

Kingsley Jonathan - I think Jonathan went into camp probably as a guy whose roster spot was not guaranteed but was penciled in. The Bills like him, they have taken time to develop him and he saw snippets of game action last year where he looked serviceable. However, despite decent camp reports his has been awful in the two pre-season games and with the Bills now having a young, developmental, edge guy that they drafted in Solomon looking so impressive I think Kingsley's name is at risk of being rubbed out. He could miss the cut. 

 

O'Cyrus Torrence - There is a certain irony that after all the gnashing of teeth about the left side of the offensive line following Mitch Morse's departure and McGovern's move to center it has been the right side of the starting group (which was much improved in 2023) that has been the source of concerns through two weeks. Last week I thought Spencer Brown in particular struggled but Torrence wasn't great. This week Torrence was just bad. I know he has always been a heavier guy but he looks big and sluggish to me. I wonder if he needs to shed a few pounds still to get in game shape before week 1. Him taking another step on an encouraging rookie year is important for this group I think.

 

The receiver 'battle' - The Bills receiver situation continues to be of concern. There wasn't a ton of separation with the starters out there and then the guys battling for roster spots showed nothing. Marquez Valdes-Scantling leaving on a cart after being bent up on following his one catch might remove another name from this uninspiring competition by default but Tyrell Shavers has faded after a great first week of camp and didn't show much here either, Hamler had one nice bubble screen for a first down but was otherwise invisible... okay the third string Quarterback not knowing the playbook and therefore having to run it almost every down didn't help. But they need to keep turning over every stone. I'd not be surprised if they go back to the Corey Davis idea this week.  

 

The practice squad candidates - Other than running back, as mentioned above, and Andreessen who might now have necessitated a place on the roster finding guys who have flashed enough to say they are worth keeping for the practice squad has been particularly difficult through these first two games. I think Richard Gouraige as a versatile olineman will probably end up spending a second year there and Kendall Williamson had a couple of moments again and looks a viable candidate. But there is just not a ton of guys here who I am worried about sneaking through. Anyone good enough to have that thought about is probably making the 53. 

 

Flame away and add your own....

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Brandon beane doesn't belong on this list, because if you can't nail top two round picks regularly, what's the point?

 

That's how you end up with a "good" roster that lacks game changing talent.

Otherwise, this is a decent enough list 

 

I will say, however, it seems he knows how to draft and find tight ends, which is a plot twist 

 

Edited August 18 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[EmotionallyUnstable]

10 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Brandon beane doesn't belong on this list, because if you can't nail top two round picks regularly, what's the point?

 

That's how you end up with a "good" roster that lacks game changing talent.

Otherwise, this is a decent enough list 

 

I will say, however, it seems he knows how to draft and find tight ends, which is a plot twist 

 

I agree on the 1st and 2nd round game changers. 2nd round has been especially rough. That said, you can’t ding him for a Bishop injury and QB play that makes in really difficult to get a fair look at Coleman. Like with all drafts, time will tell. 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Brandon beane doesn't belong on this list, because if you can't nail top two round picks regularly, what's the point?

 

That's how you end up with a "good" roster that lacks game changing talent.

Otherwise, this is a decent enough list 

 

I will say, however, it seems he knows how to draft and find tight ends, which is a plot twist 

 

 

The list isn't a "Brandon Beane is a great GM" post. It is a last night was a good  night for him. Think legit to ask questions about his inability to find true difference makers. I have been asking them for 3 years.

[NeverOutNick]

29 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Brandon beane doesn't belong on this list, because if you can't nail top two round picks regularly, what's the point?

 

That's how you end up with a "good" roster that lacks game changing talent.

Otherwise, this is a decent enough list 

 

I will say, however, it seems he knows how to draft and find tight ends, which is a plot twist 

 

I sort of agree with you but he so regularly nails rounds 4- 7 that it makes me feel McD has a lot of say early on in the draft. How else do you explain back to back DEs in 2021 for the rotational D line guru or forcing yourself to take CB when it was clear as day the guy they wanted was just taken a pick ahead of them in 2022. Even this year we check the box of getting Josh ONE WR early (IN A LOADED WR class) and then go right back to positions we could easily find cheap in free agency (rotational D line and safety)…Beane is great at finding diamonds but sucks at seeing the biggest problem right in front of him. Our franchise QB needs a consistent plethora of weapons. GB, SF and even Cincy do it year in and year out and never have a problem letting their overpaid guys go because of it (Adams, Aiyuk,…Diggs 🤔) 

 

Side note: I was flabbergasted at how well Andreessen played but I’m also skeptical because he looked so out of place and easily pushed around the first game. I hope he’s more like this 2nd preseason game but I want to see it again before I buy him quality flowers and roll out the 53 man roster carpet 

 

everything else @GunnerBill nailed. Rousseau was clearly the best player on the field last night not even close and if he’s like this all year, with a healthy Von oh boy watch out 

Edited August 18 by NeverOutNick

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I sort of agree with you but he so regularly nails rounds 4- 7 that it makes me feel McD has a lot of say early on in the draft. How else do you explain back to back DEs in 2021 for the rotational D line guru or forcing yourself to take CB when it was clear as day the guy they wanted was just taken a pick ahead of them in 2022. Even this year we check the box of getting Josh ONE WR early (IN A LOADED WR class) and then go right back to positions we could easily find cheap in free agency (rotational D line and safety)…Beane is great at finding diamonds but sucks at seeing the biggest problem right in front of him. Our franchise QB needs a consistent plethora of weapons. GB, SF and even Cincy do it year in and year out and never have a problem letting their overpaid guys go because of it (Adams, Aiyuk,…Diggs 🤔) 

 

Side note: I was flabbergasted at how well Andreessen played but I’m also skeptical because he looked so out of place and easily pushed around the first game. I hope he’s more like this 2nd preseason game but I want to see it again before I buy him quality flowers and roll out the 53 man roster carpet 

 

everything else @GunnerBill nailed. Rousseau was clearly the best player on the field last night not even close and if he’s like this all year, with a healthy Von oh boy watch out 

 

I have explained it multiple times. He learned in Carolina under two GMs who taught him you draft defensive line early and often. I crunched the numbers again the other day. In his years as a senior exec with the Panthers they spent about 30% of day 1 and 2 picks on defensive line and about 50% on defensive front 7 and Beane's numbers are right around those spots too. 

[OldTimer1960]

I was impressed with Javon Solomon.  Thought he produced pass rush pressure and held up reasonably vs the run.

[CNYfan]

It may be difficult to get Z. Davidson on the practice squad.   My theory from week one was that they buried him on the 3rd team/4th qtr reps so that he wouldn't be noticed.   

[Orlando Buffalo]

56 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Brandon beane doesn't belong on this list, because if you can't nail top two round picks regularly, what's the point?

 

That's how you end up with a "good" roster that lacks game changing talent.

Otherwise, this is a decent enough list 

 

I will say, however, it seems he knows how to draft and find tight ends, which is a plot twist 

 

His first round picks, are Tre White, Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmonds, Ed Oliver, Rousseau, Elam, and Kincaid. That is an extremely good list even not counting Diggs as the other pick. I won't say no other GM has been that good l, but few ever run it that well.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

It may be difficult to get Z. Davidson on the practice squad.   My theory from week one was that they buried him on the 3rd team/4th qtr reps so that he wouldn't be noticed.   

 

I think he makes the 53. I think no more than 5 receivers conceivably have a route. So 5 WRs and 4 TEs.

[SectionC3]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he makes the 53. I think no more than 5 receivers conceivably have a route. So 5 WRs and 4 TEs.

I thought the same thing last night.  Why keep 6?  None of the potential bottom of the group players is going to get claimed.  And, I have a sneaking suspicion we're going to run a lot of 12 this year.  So I'm skeptical that we need more than 5.  Maybe the dynamic changes if there's a trade available, or if there's somebody they really like who hits the transaction wire at the end of the month.  

31 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I was impressed with Javon Solomon.  Thought he produced pass rush pressure and held up reasonably vs the run.

And he didn't blow contain like Jonathon.  I still think Jonathon makes the team if they keep 10 DL.  But Solomon has passed him. 

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

His first round picks, are Tre White, Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmonds, Ed Oliver, Rousseau, Elam, and Kincaid. That is an extremely good list even not counting Diggs as the other pick. I won't say no other GM has been that good l, but few ever run it that well.

?

 

This is a very average list outside of Josh. 

[benderbender]

McDermott failed from jump. His decision to not play Josh a single snap gave the second half to DiNucci  by default but he didn’t plan on Trubisky crapping the bed and hurting himself. Now we need another QB AND didn’t get the first team any meaningful reps against an AFC contender. 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Picking the bones out of last week wasn't fun, but I contributed my thoughts in @FireChans thread. There was more positive to go at this week so here goes.....

 

Good Night for...

 

Joe Andreessen - Last week the kid made it for fulfilling a lifelong ambition even if in the game his head appeared to be spinning slightly and it all happened a bit fast for him. But last night, with the Milano situation, Spector injured and Bernard held out, Andreessen got a shot as the starting middle linebacker alongside Dorian Williams and he was impressive. He was diagnosing plays, knifing into the backfield, sticky and fast in coverage and even had an open field tackle on Justin Fields. 12 total tackles, including 2 for loss. I think he might have made the roster last night. Because that performance will have made other teams sit up and notice and the Bills would be taking a risk trying to sneak him onto the practice squad.  

 

Greg Rousseau - I don't usually include proven, guaranteed starters in this thread because they don't really have much to gain or lose in pre-season action but Groot was so good last night that you can't leave him out. 2.5 sacks and 2 tackles for loss in the three defensive series he played. He was a one man wrecking ball and if he could have a breakout season this year similar to the one Ed Oliver had last year we'd all feel better about the Bills pass rush moving forwards.

 

Ray Davis - I wanted to say "all the running backs" in this spot, but it is right to save the biggest bunch of flowers for the rookie Davis who averaged over 7 yards a tote on his 8 carries and ran hard for the Bills. I think he went into camp, at least theoretically, in a battle for the #2 job but Ty Johnson's injury opened the door and Davis has burst through it. It was a good night for all the backs. James Cook looked more decisive behind better run blocking and Darrynton Evans and Frank Gore Jnr who are the likely practice squad backs both had nice nights too. It's a spot where the Bills look to have some depth. 

 

Tylan Grable - I think Grable went into the pre-season games right on the roster bubble but for two weeks in a row I think he has been the most impressive of the Bills backup linemen and last night he switched from right tackle in week one to left tackle. Some of that was likely trying to get a look at Ryan Van Demark at right tackle where 12 months ago he look appreciably worse than on the left side but I don't think it is unreasonable to think another part of the calculation was getting a look at Grable on the blindside. He did not disappoint. He has to make the 53. This kid has not just starter but star potential down the road.

 

Brandon Beane - After including two of his day three picks and one of his UDFAs in the list of good nights I think it is right to give Brandon Beane a bit of a bump based on what we have seen so far. While his days 1 and 2 of the 2024 NFL draft are not yet flashing in the way we might hope man the way he used that glut of day three picks looks pretty good so far. Javon Solomon has been excellent through two pre-season games too, Daequan Hardy showed some juice last night with the ball in his hand and has done some nice things as the second team nickel and Sedrick Van Pran-Granger had another steady outing (albeit mainly by the time the Steeler 3rd team was in). It is true to say the roster was always going to be easier for rookies to make this year given the mini-rebuild, but Davis, Grable, Solomon, Hardy and SVP are all on track to make it.

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Mitch Trubisky - Ugh. In a disaster class of a night from both sets of Quarterbacks, the concerns about Trubisky show no sign of abating. The interception was terrible - Morris wasn't even open if he hadn't overthrown it - but even worse was the sacks he took holding the ball being slow processing the field. I will look again at the all22 because in his defence I didn't see much separation by receivers (more of which later) but Trubisky is making the offensive line look bad. He is indecisive and tentative and he HAS to get the ball out. I think the Bills will stick with him, but there will be concern in the organisation. In his last spell as the backup here Mitch moved the offense pretty easily in pre-season. He looks like he has come back from Pittsburgh a broken man. 

 

Kingsley Jonathan - I think Jonathan went into camp probably as a guy whose roster spot was not guaranteed but was penciled in. The Bills like him, they have taken time to develop him and he saw snippets of game action last year where he looked serviceable. However, despite decent camp reports his has been awful in the two pre-season games and with the Bills now having a young, developmental, edge guy that they drafted in Solomon looking so impressive I think Kingsley's name is at risk of being rubbed out. He could miss the cut. 

 

O'Cyrus Torrence - There is a certain irony that after all the gnashing of teeth about the left side of the offensive line following Mitch Morse's departure and McGovern's move to center it has been the right side of the starting group (which was much improved in 2023) that has been the source of concerns through two weeks. Last week I thought Spencer Brown in particular struggled but Torrence wasn't great. This week Torrence was just bad. I know he has always been a heavier guy but he looks big and sluggish to me. I wonder if he needs to shed a few pounds still to get in game shape before week 1. Him taking another step on an encouraging rookie year is important for this group I think.

 

The receiver 'battle' - The Bills receiver situation continues to be of concern. There wasn't a ton of separation with the starters out there and then the guys battling for roster spots showed nothing. Marquez Valdes-Scantling leaving on a cart after being bent up on following his one catch might remove another name from this uninspiring competition by default but Tyrell Shavers has faded after a great first week of camp and didn't show much here either, Hamler had one nice bubble screen for a first down but was otherwise invisible... okay the third string Quarterback not knowing the playbook and therefore having to run it almost every down didn't help. But they need to keep turning over every stone. I'd not be surprised if they go back to the Corey Davis idea this week.  

 

The practice squad candidates - Other than running back, as mentioned above, and Andreessen who might now have necessitated a place on the roster finding guys who have flashed enough to say they are worth keeping for the practice squad has been particularly difficult through these first two games. I think Richard Gouraige as a versatile olineman will probably end up spending a second year there and Kendall Williamson had a couple of moments again and looks a viable candidate. But there is just not a ton of guys here who I am worried about sneaking through. Anyone good enough to have that thought about is probably making the 53. 

 

Flame away and add your own....

Good list.

 

Rousseau had a funny night. I’ve been hard on him needing to step up as a pass rusher and he put on a show last night.

 

My only quibble is that I think he just did the same pass rush power move over and over and over? I have to rewatch but that’s what it looked like.

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

?

 

This is a very average list outside of Josh. 

You don't know what the word average means. Do you think most players go to Pro Bowls regularly? 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Re Kingsley Johnathan, I will admit that I didn’t watch him a lot. But he single-handedly blew up that last Steelers drive. I think he had a sack, TFL, and multiple pressures.  always seems to flash when they have played him in the past.

[Matt_In_NH]

Kingley Jonathan had 2 reps in the fourth where he got a sack and then stripped Fields on the next play that would have been a sack it it did not bounce back to fields.  Probably against guys who won’t be nfl players and I was not watching him earlier but o b that drive he was dominant.  

Edited August 18 by Matt_In_NH

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Good list.

 

Rousseau had a funny night. I’ve been hard on him needing to step up as a pass rusher and he put on a show last night.

 

My only quibble is that I think he just did the same pass rush power move over and over and over? I have to rewatch but that’s what it looked like.

The bull rush did seem to be effective tonight. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

10 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

The bull rush did seem to be effective tonight. 

Unfortunately he won't be going against Broderick Jones every week.

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Good list.

 

Rousseau had a funny night. I’ve been hard on him needing to step up as a pass rusher and he put on a show last night.

 

My only quibble is that I think he just did the same pass rush power move over and over and over? I have to rewatch but that’s what it looked like.

 

Yea he doesn't have a ton of moves. He wins on power, length and a good understanding of leverage.