GunnerBill Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 3 hours ago, Beck Water said: I think several things are at play. One is, the scheme does rely on some fast but undersized guys who compensate by going hard and hitting hard. I don't think it's an accident that we had a rash of injuries playing on the turf-over-cement field in UK and then another rash of injuries during the Pittsburgh playoff game in cold weather that made the fill under our turf hard and unyielding. A second is, bad luck. When you have a player like Tre White who tore his ACL and then returned and tore his Achilles, that's just bad luck A third is, we did "age out" on some players like Poyer and Hyde and are ageing out on others, like Milano. Agree with this. But to see two stalwart players like White and Milano both go down with consecutive long term injuries right on top of one another is just pure bad luck IMO. Nothing anyone could have done differently. Although trainers letting a guy that might have torn a bicep do a push up was beyond silly the damage was, by then, done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42Knuck Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 The team is trading size for speed. The smaller defenders get hurt more frequently. 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 We need to go back to the days of Shane Conlan and Takeo Spikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 (edited) 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Agree with this. But to see two stalwart players like White and Milano both go down with consecutive long term injuries right on top of one another is just pure bad luck IMO. Nothing anyone could have done differently. Although trainers letting a guy that might have torn a bicep do a push up was beyond silly the damage was, by then, done. Not being a trainer, I'm not going to comment but I've been told that a torn tendon is felt as it occurs as a burning pain and being able to feel/see the tendon retract. There must have been something atypical about Milano's injury. I agree, the Bills have had some really horrid injury luck the past couple years. Edited August 17 by Beck Water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Harris 69 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Anyone have stats on how the bills rank in games list to injury compared to other teams? I have wondered about the effectiveness of their training philosophies and regiments in light of these injuries. Of course “everything’s a situation” (NYPD Blue). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 5 hours ago, 42Knuck said: The team is trading size for speed. The smaller defenders get hurt more frequently. This is definitely a part of it. The other part is that a lot of big money contracts were given out on the defensive side especially before Josh’s extension. Injuries to guys still on their rookie deal don’t hurt nearly as much as injuries to Tre, Miller, and Milano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrW Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 5 hours ago, 42Knuck said: The team is trading size for speed. The smaller defenders get hurt more frequently. As most injuries occurred during practice, this is especially true this year where the skill players on offense have gotten bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Maybe we should fire someone, 🤣😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 53 minutes ago, Jimmy Harris 69 said: Anyone have stats on how the bills rank in games list to injury compared to other teams? I have wondered about the effectiveness of their training philosophies and regiments in light of these injuries. Of course “everything’s a situation” (NYPD Blue). Believe we had 20th most games lost in 2023 So on the healthier side of things 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 16 hours ago, mannc said: Over the past few seasons, it seems that the overwhelming majority of the Bills' serious injuries (injuries that result in multiple lost games) have been on defense...Tre White, Von Miller, Matt Milano, Daquan Jones, Damar Hamlin, Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer, Terrel Bernard, Baylon Spector, and Christian Benford is only a partial list of Bills' defenders who have missed a lot of time because of injuries. And I suppose we can add Mike Edwards and Cole Bishop, too. On the other hand, it's hard to name any starter on offense who has missed much time. Mitch Morse, Dawson Knox and Spencer Brown might have missed a game or two, but injuries have really had no measurable impact on the Bills' offense for a couple years running. Anyone have any explanation for this? Is it just luck, or does it have something to do with the scheme or the type of players the Bills have been drafting and acquiring on defense? My sense is that it's more than just luck and that it might have something to do with the Bills favoring smaller, more mobile, more versatile defenders. I can't remember ever seeing a team with so many key injuries on one side of the ball and almost none on the other, especially over an extended period of time. Curious what others think. I think its weird. Worse, we've had stars at all three levels of our defense: Miller on the DL; Milano at LB; Tre, Hyde & Poyer in the secondary. And they've all struggled with injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleezoid Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 13 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said: maybe its all that back peddling on third and long . They have to move with the chains backwards. Might also have to do with the fact that defensive players are always reacting which might put more strain on joints and muscles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 17 minutes ago, Fleezoid said: Might also have to do with the fact that defensive players are always reacting which might put more strain on joints and muscles. Well that too as well as getting older Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 15 hours ago, Dr.Sack said: Most of the worst injuries are incurred by aging players. Young guys tend to be more pliable. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 19 hours ago, mannc said: Over the past few seasons, it seems that the overwhelming majority of the Bills' serious injuries (injuries that result in multiple lost games) have been on defense...Tre White, Von Miller, Matt Milano, Daquan Jones, Damar Hamlin, Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer, Terrel Bernard, Baylon Spector, and Christian Benford is only a partial list of Bills' defenders who have missed a lot of time because of injuries. And I suppose we can add Mike Edwards and Cole Bishop, too. On the other hand, it's hard to name any starter on offense who has missed much time. Mitch Morse, Dawson Knox and Spencer Brown might have missed a game or two, but injuries have really had no measurable impact on the Bills' offense for a couple years running. Anyone have any explanation for this? Is it just luck, or does it have something to do with the scheme or the type of players the Bills have been drafting and acquiring on defense? My sense is that it's more than just luck and that it might have something to do with the Bills favoring smaller, more mobile, more versatile defenders. I can't remember ever seeing a team with so many key injuries on one side of the ball and almost none on the other, especially over an extended period of time. Curious what others think. Small, soft, lack of physicality 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Ralph is cheap! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Ralph is cheap! I read somewhere that he was buried with his wallet and both front pockets of his pants filled with quarters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPJax Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Just a couple thoughts , but I bet there are studies available to answer this. Educated guesses : D players are running backwards or being pushed backwards which is not regular kinesiology, so you are stressing muscle groups in different directions than they were developed for against large resistences. Many of these injuries are non contact, like Achilles injuries and torn tendons from their attachments. Perhaps those chronic micro injuries take a toll Offensive players know the directions they want to go , are not reacting , and reacting causes greater strains on muscle groups / tendons with huge forces generated from suddenly slowing or changing directions or suddenly stopping against an opposing force hitting you. Again, reacting and sudden deceleration or acceleration puts tremendous stress on ligaments and tendons. You may be right about our scheme using smaller lbs and more dbs against large o lineman , large backs running you over and basic physics regarding force comes into play. Mass , acceleration or speed results in forces acting on you, and I’m sure smaller guys tend to lose those battles more than the smaller guy comes out on top. Offensive players have a warning many times they are going to be hit , so they can go down , slow down, change their body Angle to avoid full impact. D players do none of that. They keep going full speed , they try to hit with maximum impact , many times they get blindsided by blockers or they may have already made impact only to have one of their own fully hit them from behind , adding yet more force that comes w no warning. We all have seen d players miss hitting the offensive player who ducks , only to hit his fellow team mate and cause a broken long bone or head injury. Plus , it’s only been recently that spearing or using the head / helmet as a weapon has been outlawed and many times those spearing hits could end up hitting a teammate in a pile etc. D is about hitting to cause fumbles , knock players back to stop forward momemtum etc, you just don’t usually see d players slow down before hitting someone. The o guys can try to adjust impact by going down , going out of bounds , twisting to avoid impact. It just seems like basic physics regarding impacts that d players take puts them more at risk. I agree , luck is an issue. But overtraining plays a role. Both tre and Matt were recovering from serious injuries that required surgery and immobility of the injured limb. They still continue to train tho , and being very competitive, they may overtrain the other functional grouos and both interestingly were tendon ruptures on other prior healthy limbs. Matt was a safety turned into a lb. He has huge biceps and they didn’t get that way by not stressing against resistance , lifting large weights over time , and finally those tendons can tear as they don’t enlarge where they attach to bone while the muscles are enlarging much more His biceps probably doubled or tripled in size / force it was capable of compared to no tendon enlargement , and finally all that added strength ( force) of that growing biceps tears the tendon holding it to forearm. I’m not a sports med specialist or orthopedist but get some training in sports injuries in family practice. It would make sense that tre had modified or altered the use of his prior non injured limb. So his Achilles attaches two muscle groups to the back of the heel and bottom of the foot as the plantar fascia. He had a non contact injury or tesr, but this was at least a year of altered use as his other limb was the one with the torn ACL. Obviously he used the other limb more while rehabbing , and prob developed micro tears in his Achilles and it finally snapped. So training , altered use prob plays a role in these non contact injuries In addition , who really knows what these guys are willing to use , take , inject to keep earning huge $. I’m sure some guys know how to cycle to minimize detection and things like creatine that bulk muscles or increase training capacity may also play a role in injuries. Not accusing tre of using anything illegal , but I am sure some in the league have , as alzedo for example died from complications of years of anabolic steroid use. It’s been mostly eliminated but still every year someone’s urine has a banned substance. That’s prob an anomaly , but these are huge men with low percentages of body fat hitting each other, so it’s just natural to wonder ! lol! Just some educated guesses why the d may be more at risk. If I find time ( unfortunately I’m dealing with an undisclosed / unduagnised abdominal situation right now and just had two cat scans. Still looks like I need colonoscopy and may need surgery , so not feeling great and it’s hard to read a lot when you feel lousy. It’s so true , if you have your health , you have everything. 😊) I could see if a literature search has definitive answers because there has to have been some long term studies done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillenger4 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 20 hours ago, mannc said: Over the past few seasons, it seems that the overwhelming majority of the Bills' serious injuries (injuries that result in multiple lost games) have been on defense...Tre White, Von Miller, Matt Milano, Daquan Jones, Damar Hamlin, Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer, Terrel Bernard, Baylon Spector, and Christian Benford is only a partial list of Bills' defenders who have missed a lot of time because of injuries. And I suppose we can add Mike Edwards and Cole Bishop, too. On the other hand, it's hard to name any starter on offense who has missed much time. Mitch Morse, Dawson Knox and Spencer Brown might have missed a game or two, but injuries have really had no measurable impact on the Bills' offense for a couple years running. Anyone have any explanation for this? Is it just luck, or does it have something to do with the scheme or the type of players the Bills have been drafting and acquiring on defense? My sense is that it's more than just luck and that it might have something to do with the Bills favoring smaller, more mobile, more versatile defenders. I can't remember ever seeing a team with so many key injuries on one side of the ball and almost none on the other, especially over an extended period of time. Curious what others think. You should watch the study they did on WGRZ TV about it. They said it's because we hit so hard. The Bills, on average, hit harder on D than any other NFL team. They tested our guys, made them run straight into a brick wall (with helmet of course) and we were the best at not passing out. After the Bills test, the wall had a slight crack in it and some paint chips from the bricks. In comparison, for example, the Dolphins players simply spary painted on the wall (Grafitti) and stuff. One of them was found getting baked with pot. KC, their team was arrested on way to the wall for DUI.. Kirk Cousinns was asked to tdo the test, but he was at a prayer service. It's just bad luck bruh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Perhaps undersized players on some of these? Other times freak injuries. 10 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said: You should watch the study they did on WGRZ TV about it. They said it's because we hit so hard. The Bills, on average, hit harder on D than any other NFL team. They tested our guys, made them run straight into a brick wall (with helmet of course) and we were the best at not passing out. After the Bills test, the wall had a slight crack in it and some paint chips from the bricks. In comparison, for example, the Dolphins players simply spary painted on the wall (Grafitti) and stuff. One of them was found getting baked with pot. KC, their team was arrested on way to the wall for DUI.. Kirk Cousinns was asked to tdo the test, but he was at a prayer service. It's just bad luck bruh. I thought they said Cousins was too busy running around the locker room holding his giant chain and yelling "Do you like that!?!?!" In all his teammates faces 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillenger4 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 12 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Perhaps undersized players on some of these? Other times freak injuries. I thought they said Cousins was too busy running around the locker room holding his giant chain and yelling "Do you like that!?!?!" In all his teammates faces 🤣 Only his wife should know about his Giant Chain... but according to you.... LOL Get wrecked. GO BILLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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