Starr-Bills Posted August 16 Posted August 16 30 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said: Liberalism is the decision to lie to protect a person's feelings while simultaneously putting them in a much more dangerous situation. Monkeypox is a gay centric disease and those most likely to get it are promiscuous men. Lying about it does not protect them and being a monogamous gay relationship should keep them safe. Obviously you didn’t read the pdf. “Cuddling. Kissing. Vaginal secretions.” All vectors for spreading. Just ‘cause you can’t get laid doesn’t make it gay centric. Really, you might want to read your post back to yourself out loud so you can hear how ***** up you sound. now if you want to find a legit scientific paper and charge that with the class showing that it’s gay centric and not some “I don’t like their lifestyle” smear we can have a discussion on the merits.
Scraps Posted August 16 Posted August 16 10 minutes ago, phypon said: I was going to address your points one by one, but the end answer is do some research. You are wrong on every point you tried to make. Also, we don't close businesses or mandate vaccines or mandate a quarantine for people for the common cold or flu (which killed more people than covid). When you do your own research you will see that for yourself. And another note, livestock was culled for the bird flu but when it was detected in milk the fda said it was still safe to drink. In your own words: "MPox might be a pandemic but so what?". The point of the thread is, will you comply or think that MPox warrants mandatory vaccines or lockdowns? Based on your own words, I'm guessing you do not think those measures are necessary. I've done my research and come to the conclusion that you are wrong on every point. Please provide proof that the vaccine is worse than the virus. You also have a basic misunderstanding of what a Pandemic is. The definition is based on how wide spread a disease is. It does not mean that mandatory vaccination is necessarily warranted or lockdowns for that matter. Those might be mitigation techniques based on the virus. I can't see MPox warranting mandatory vaccinations and certainly never lockdowns. Since it is spread by direct contact with a symptomatic person with sores, just don't touch symptomatic people with sores. 2
Starr-Bills Posted August 16 Posted August 16 45 minutes ago, phypon said: As another poster posted this link, try reading for yourself. Also, the point isn't that it's a "gay" disease. How concerned are you that this is going to be a global pandemic? https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/monkeypox-spoiled-gay-mens-plans-invincible-summer-rcna45326 I hope you feel better now with your insults. So you agree that the people most likely to acquire MPox is the gay community. With that out of the way, the point of this thread is not about the gay community. Do you think, as it stands now, that we should be so concerned about MPox to label it a global pandemic that warrants lockdowns and mandatory vaccines? Go take your nap so you can answer. 13 minutes ago, phypon said: I was going to address your points one by one, but the end answer is do some research. You are wrong on every point you tried to make. Also, we don't close businesses or mandate vaccines or mandate a quarantine for people for the common cold or flu (which killed more people than covid). When you do your own research you will see that for yourself. And another note, livestock was culled for the bird flu but when it was detected in milk the fda said it was still safe to drink. In your own words: "MPox might be a pandemic but so what?". The point of the thread is, will you comply or think that MPox warrants mandatory vaccines or lockdowns? Based on your own words, I'm guessing you do not think those measures are necessary. So now you believe the MSM ‘cause it supports your view. The article I cited was from a health org. Again if you have a peer reviewed or other medical reviewed article that says it’s a gay problem then fine. But this cherry picking because it’s some conspiracy to destroy the economy/ scare people or shame gays is lame. also as the planet warms and humans expand into previously undeveloped lands and travel continues to be so open and free then yes it’s likely we will have more not less infectious diseases. This is another knock on effect of climate change and population growth. 1
Scraps Posted August 16 Posted August 16 58 minutes ago, phypon said: As another poster posted this link, try reading for yourself. Also, the point isn't that it's a "gay" disease. How concerned are you that this is going to be a global pandemic? https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/monkeypox-spoiled-gay-mens-plans-invincible-summer-rcna45326 I hope you feel better now with your insults. So you agree that the people most likely to acquire MPox is the gay community. With that out of the way, the point of this thread is not about the gay community. Do you think, as it stands now, that we should be so concerned about MPox to label it a global pandemic that warrants lockdowns and mandatory vaccines? Go take your nap so you can answer. Your article is 2 years old and may not be as relevant today. Part of the issue with MPox is keeping it from being a problem for the non-gay society. AIDS may have primarily affected the gay society back when it was discovered but that his hardly true 3 decades later. 1
phypon Posted August 16 Author Posted August 16 6 minutes ago, Scraps said: I've done my research and come to the conclusion that you are wrong on every point. Please provide proof that the vaccine is worse than the virus. You also have a basic misunderstanding of what a Pandemic is. The definition is based on how wide spread a disease is. It does not mean that mandatory vaccination is necessarily warranted or lockdowns for that matter. Those might be mitigation techniques based on the virus. I can't see MPox warranting mandatory vaccinations and certainly never lockdowns. Since it is spread by direct contact with a symptomatic person with sores, just don't touch symptomatic people with sores. If you did your own research you would see that the data is there about the effects of the vaccine vs the virus. Also, this thread is not about a "pandemic" but more so about the actions that would be implemented from said pandemic. You answered the topic, or point of this thread when you said "I can't see MPox warranting mandatory vaccinations and certainly never lockdowns". That was all I was really inquiring about, so thank you for your answer. I appreciate that. 4 minutes ago, Starr-Bills said: So now you believe the MSM ‘cause it supports your view. The article I cited was from a health org. Again if you have a peer reviewed or other medical reviewed article that says it’s a gay problem then fine. But this cherry picking because it’s some conspiracy to destroy the economy/ scare people or shame gays is lame. also as the planet warms and humans expand into previously undeveloped lands and travel continues to be so open and free then yes it’s likely we will have more not less infectious diseases. This is another knock on effect of climate change and population growth. This thread has nothing to do with "shaming gay people". If I post a MSM article (which another poster posted the link, not me, which I stated in the post you're replying to, but I guess you missed that), it's because most on here need a MSM link to think it's more credible than a non-MSM link. Now you're talking about global warming, really? Simple question, do you think that MPox warrants mandatory vaccines or lockdowns? What say you? 1
Tommy Callahan Posted August 16 Posted August 16 Last I checked Monkey pox is an STD with Physical symptoms. Seems pretty easy for most to avoid. 1 1
phypon Posted August 16 Author Posted August 16 3 minutes ago, Scraps said: Your article is 2 years old and may not be as relevant today. Part of the issue with MPox is keeping it from being a problem for the non-gay society. AIDS may have primarily affected the gay society back when it was discovered but that his hardly true 3 decades later. First of all, I wasn't the one that posted a link to the article. I also have no problem with the article. Again, my question is, if the WHO pushes this pandemic, how will you respond? Do you think lockdowns and mandatory vaccines are necessary and warranted? Will you comply with those edicts? The disease seems to be centered around the gay community, but this thread is not about the gay community, it's about another pandemic (the 3rd in 3 years), are you going to comply with their suggested restrictions and believe them with the track record they have at this point? 1
Scraps Posted August 16 Posted August 16 1 minute ago, phypon said: If you did your own research you would see that the data is there about the effects of the vaccine vs the virus. Also, this thread is not about a "pandemic" but more so about the actions that would be implemented from said pandemic. You answered the topic, or point of this thread when you said "I can't see MPox warranting mandatory vaccinations and certainly never lockdowns". That was all I was really inquiring about, so thank you for your answer. I appreciate that. This thread has nothing to do with "shaming gay people". If I post a MSM article (which another poster posted the link, not me, which I stated in the post you're replying to, but I guess you missed that), it's because most on here need a MSM link to think it's more credible than a non-MSM link. Now you're talking about global warming, really? Simple question, do you think that MPox warrants mandatory vaccines or lockdowns? What say you? For Covid, the data is clear that the virus is worse than the vaccine. That was proven in the Phase 3 trials back in 2020. No reputable study has disproven that. The mitigation steps for any virus are dependent on how the virus spreads. A virus that spreads by direct contact with symptomatic people is far easier to control and an aerosolized virus spread by asymptomatic people. 2
Starr-Bills Posted August 16 Posted August 16 5 minutes ago, phypon said: If you did your own research you would see that the data is there about the effects of the vaccine vs the virus. Also, this thread is not about a "pandemic" but more so about the actions that would be implemented from said pandemic. You answered the topic, or point of this thread when you said "I can't see MPox warranting mandatory vaccinations and certainly never lockdowns". That was all I was really inquiring about, so thank you for your answer. I appreciate that. This thread has nothing to do with "shaming gay people". If I post a MSM article (which another poster posted the link, not me, which I stated in the post you're replying to, but I guess you missed that), it's because most on here need a MSM link to think it's more credible than a non-MSM link. Now you're talking about global warming, really? Simple question, do you think that MPox warrants mandatory vaccines or lockdowns? What say you? This question game is tiring. (Poster was gay shaming, it’s not a “gay disease “). In general I believe vaccines work and are warranted if monkey pox reaches ‘dangerous levels’ lock downs etc are appropriate responses to a novel virus that is little understood, the population lacks immunity (novel), and its airborne transmitted. Thing is like antibiotics you have to take the whole course so twice as long as the incubation period with close to 100% compliance should put a highly infectious virus out of commission. Unfortunately that’s not what happened and so multiple were tried and only partially successful and millions world wide died. Disappointing to say the least in the 21st century. I’m not sure lockdown would be appropriate for monkey pox unless it became airborne.
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 16 Posted August 16 41 minutes ago, Starr-Bills said: Obviously you didn’t read the pdf. “Cuddling. Kissing. Vaginal secretions.” All vectors for spreading. Just ‘cause you can’t get laid doesn’t make it gay centric. Really, you might want to read your post back to yourself out loud so you can hear how ***** up you sound. now if you want to find a legit scientific paper and charge that with the class showing that it’s gay centric and not some “I don’t like their lifestyle” smear we can have a discussion on the merits. I will quote literally what you linked to: Monkeypox appears to be spreading now among some sexual and social networks of gay and bisexual men and other men who have sex with men (MSM). You can call me a bigot for recognizing facts, but that is on you. The beauty of where I live is that I could live anywhere and choose my town which is diverse in almost every single way except politics. I will also leave you with this article from NBC who obviously are bigots for making my point: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna45326 1 1
Starr-Bills Posted August 16 Posted August 16 Also from the article. (Note: Is monkeypox a gay disease? No. Monkeypox appears to be spreading now among some sexual and social networks of gay and bisexual men and other men who have sex with men (MSM). However, there is no such thing as a gay disease. Viruses and bacteria can and do infect anyone regardless of sexual orientation. It is also not a sexually transmitted infection. Instead, it is spread through close contact, as previously described. Anyone can get monkeypox, including heterosexual people, women, transgender and nonbinary people, and others. It is important not to stereotype gay and bisexual men and/or Africans as bearers of disease. Gay and bisexual men and African immigrants already experience significant stigma and prejudice and are vulnerable to discrimination and violence victimization. Stigma about gay and bisexual people, including laws criminalizing homosexuality and same-sex behavior which still exist in many countries, may cause men who have sex with men to fear disclosing their same-sex behavior. This may also make them reluctant to disclose that they are part of social and sexual networks that are disproportionately affected by the current outbreak, making prevention of the spread of monkeypox more difficult. The public health response to this outbreak of monkeypox should not be allowed to exacerbate homophobia and racism and the scapegoating of gay and bisexual men and African immigrants. 2
Big Blitz Posted August 16 Posted August 16 Amazing to have gone our whole lives with no global pandemics then you get 2 in four years - both during a U.S. presidential election. Incredible coincidence. 1 1
Tommy Callahan Posted August 16 Posted August 16 6 minutes ago, Starr-Bills said: Also from the article. (Note: Is monkeypox a gay disease? No. Monkeypox appears to be spreading now among some sexual and social networks of gay and bisexual men and other men who have sex with men (MSM). However, there is no such thing as a gay disease. Viruses and bacteria can and do infect anyone regardless of sexual orientation. It is also not a sexually transmitted infection. Instead, it is spread through close contact, as previously described. Anyone can get monkeypox, including heterosexual people, women, transgender and nonbinary people, and others. It is important not to stereotype gay and bisexual men and/or Africans as bearers of disease. Gay and bisexual men and African immigrants already experience significant stigma and prejudice and are vulnerable to discrimination and violence victimization. Stigma about gay and bisexual people, including laws criminalizing homosexuality and same-sex behavior which still exist in many countries, may cause men who have sex with men to fear disclosing their same-sex behavior. This may also make them reluctant to disclose that they are part of social and sexual networks that are disproportionately affected by the current outbreak, making prevention of the spread of monkeypox more difficult. The public health response to this outbreak of monkeypox should not be allowed to exacerbate homophobia and racism and the scapegoating of gay and bisexual men and African immigrants. Truth. Has nothing to do with homosexuality. It will/could affect anyone that has UNPROTECTED sex with physically visual symptoms. 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 16 Posted August 16 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Starr-Bills said: Also from the article. (Note: Is monkeypox a gay disease? No. Monkeypox appears to be spreading now among some sexual and social networks of gay and bisexual men and other men who have sex with men (MSM). However, there is no such thing as a gay disease. Viruses and bacteria can and do infect anyone regardless of sexual orientation. It is also not a sexually transmitted infection. Instead, it is spread through close contact, as previously described. Anyone can get monkeypox, including heterosexual people, women, transgender and nonbinary people, and others. It is important not to stereotype gay and bisexual men and/or Africans as bearers of disease. Gay and bisexual men and African immigrants already experience significant stigma and prejudice and are vulnerable to discrimination and violence victimization. Stigma about gay and bisexual people, including laws criminalizing homosexuality and same-sex behavior which still exist in many countries, may cause men who have sex with men to fear disclosing their same-sex behavior. This may also make them reluctant to disclose that they are part of social and sexual networks that are disproportionately affected by the current outbreak, making prevention of the spread of monkeypox more difficult. The public health response to this outbreak of monkeypox should not be allowed to exacerbate homophobia and racism and the scapegoating of gay and bisexual men and African immigrants. As I stated, you worry more about the stigma than solving the problem. Why are you not proud of yourself, you are differentiating yourself from me, I tell uncomfortable truths and you worry about their feelings, damn the results. I am going to add pretending the American reaction to gays and American reaction is similar is disingenuous. Edited August 16 by Orlando Buffalo 2
Scraps Posted August 16 Posted August 16 3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Amazing to have gone our whole lives with no global pandemics then you get 2 in four years - both during a U.S. presidential election. Incredible coincidence. There have been several pandemics since 2000. SARS Cov-1, H1N1, Zika and SARS Cov-2. The last was just more disruptive.
Tommy Callahan Posted August 16 Posted August 16 1 minute ago, Big Blitz said: Amazing to have gone our whole lives with no global pandemics then you get 2 in four years - both during a U.S. presidential election. Incredible coincidence. Come on. you think the people are paying top dollar directly to the industry for the vaccines? Designating it an health emergency opens up Funding to big pharm. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-022-01463-3 The health emergency demands prompt action, and the availability of ready-made vaccines is reassuring. In July, the European Medicines Agency recommended the smallpox vaccine made by Danish biotech Bavarian Nordic be authorized for monkeypox disease. The product, Imvanex (Jynneos in the United States and Imvamune in Canada), has been approved in the European Union since 2013 for smallpox. The US Food and Drug Administration had given the vaccine the go-head in 2019 to protect from smallpox or monkeypox infection. Bavarian Nordic’s vaccine is made from live non-replicating virus, a modified strain of the vaccinia virus named Ankara that is closely related to smallpox or monkeypox but is less virulent. It was developed largely through funding from the US government’s Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) program and is the World Health Organization’s vaccine of choice in the current outbreak; as yet around 95% of the available 16.4 million doses are yet to be filled into vials and finished. The efficacy of smallpox vaccines can no longer be tested in the field, but phase 3 results testing Ankara as a standalone smallpox vaccine show that it provokes immune responses similar to those of established smallpox vaccines. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2024-07-02/u-s-government-to-pay-moderna-176-million-to-develop-mrna-flu-vaccine https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2024/07/02/hhs-provides-176-million-develop-pandemic-influenza-mrna-based-vaccine.html U.S. government to pay Moderna $176 million to develop mRNA flu vaccine (medicalxpress.com) 1
SectionC3 Posted August 16 Posted August 16 4 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: Governments around the world blew any trust they had with the people on public health matters. And deservedly so. If we get a respiratory pathogen pandemic that legitimately calls for the measures instituted during covid like influenza H5N1 etc.? We're *****. Why? HCQ and ivermectin should knock that thing right out. 1 hour ago, Tommy Callahan said: Last I checked Monkey pox is an STD with Physical symptoms. Seems pretty easy for most to avoid. I doubt you’re a candidate for it, that’s for sure. 1 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 16 Posted August 16 2 hours ago, dickleyjones said: I agree re blind trust. Cry wolf, maybe. I think it was/is simply authority figures who don't have a clue about epidemiology being afraid of being wrong so they hid behind doctors (who also have no clue about epidemiology). Damn shame, the epidemiologists i know were pissed off the whole time as doctors were viewed as experts instead of the real experts. And of course we know anyone who dared speak out got the stick (my brother, an er doc, included). The problem is if we assume cry wolf then we end up like the story ie eaten by wolves ie *****. "it's all a conspiracy" isn't helping. One slight modification. I can accept that the science involved with the virus was evolving, and at times they advocated the equivalent of hiding under the desk in the event a nuclear bomb detonated overhead. I alos understand that politicians were flying without a net (which is a whole 'nother issue engtirely), and that nobody wanted to be the big dog if this thing turned really, really sideways. I tried to view Andrew Cuomo's position with significant latitude, though looking back he botched several elements very badly. Our leadership, however, did not simply 'cry wolf'. They cried wolf and then in many cases, completely and irrefutably ignored the rules and guidelines they established as THE ground rules to prevent millions from dying. I'm in my office setting up plexiglass sneeze guards (the gold standard in avoiding the zombie apocalypse) under threat of criminal/civil penalty, and politicians were encouraging/participating in mass gatherings where people walked arm in arm for hours at a clip. Governors and Senators were seen dining in vacant restaurants, or bypassing restrictions on flights to see family members, or claiming 'mischief' afoot when seen maskless at baseball games with their friends immediately to their right or left. I can forgive crying wolf, but I have always been quite certain that high ranking officials behave hypocritically not because they ignore the rule, but because they have better access to inside information not readily available for the public. We it time and again while politicians raise alarms over climate change and pollute on a massive scale. I don't believe any of the offenders wanted to come down with a case of COIVD--or infect their family members, but I do believe they knew the fallout if they did was likely going to mild, temporary and short-lived. As for mpox, not a concern of mine at this point. I'll stay tuned though. 1 1
Tommy Callahan Posted August 16 Posted August 16 18 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: I doubt you’re a candidate for it, that’s for sure. you doubt it, but are sure of it, at the same time. that's some amazing logic
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