VABills Posted June 22, 2005 Posted June 22, 2005 We're gonna have a great time in Purgatory listening to the Ramones and tossing back some cold ones, brother. 364802[/snapback] Might want to do some looking around. My understanding is purgatory sucks, big time. Like being in hell or possibly worse. The only thing that makes it better is knowing in a few centuries you can sit around listening to Billy Joel slamming down cold ones. Oh and I am 125 dollar richer so I don't have to worry about the .70 I spent today.
VABills Posted June 22, 2005 Posted June 22, 2005 Works for me. And I can go to Mass in cutoffs and a T-shirt, and nobody cares. Try that in a Southern Baptist Church. Miss Ellie wouldn't give me a soda water the next week. Probably accuse me of mouthing the words to "In His Ever Loving Arms". 364739[/snapback] Yes you can. As the old priest that erynthered and I discussed the other day, he also said , God knows what you look like with no clothes on. He just wants to see you in his house talking to him. Jeans and tshirts are fine, and you can have any available seat you want, cost of admitance is free, other than your time. It's actually a pretty good deal and a decent show on occassion. Everyone should try it. Go to a few different ones though because to be honest, some are very lacking.
Alaska Darin Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Might want to do some looking around. My understanding is purgatory sucks, big time. Like being in hell or possibly worse. The only thing that makes it better is knowing in a few centuries you can sit around listening to Billy Joel slamming down cold ones. Oh and I am 125 dollar richer so I don't have to worry about the .70 I spent today. 364809[/snapback] Yeah, but that's YOUR understanding.
VABills Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Yeah, but that's YOUR understanding. 364819[/snapback] Darin, I am always right, remember?
Ghost of BiB Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Darin, I am always right, remember? 364822[/snapback] No, you're not.
GG Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Yeah, but VA will be .35 cents short on being there............ 364806[/snapback] I'll dip into some Google funds to help him out...
erynthered Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 No, you're not. 364828[/snapback] He's not speaking to you, remember? Oh, BTW, you're right.
VABills Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 I'll dip into some Google funds to help him out... 364842[/snapback] You're so dreamy.
Ghost of BiB Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Who asked you? 364832[/snapback] I don't need permission.
Dan Gross Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 You are correct in saying that we are saved through the grace of God alone, but you are cutting a key component completely out. There is no “room for interpretation” as to who God allows into heaven. If your interpretation is correct, how do you address these two verses: John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life” and then Ephesians 2:8 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God”. A little logic lesson: If "A" then "B" does not logically equate to If "not A" then "not B." As an example, people say that "If you masturbate you will go blind." Does that mean that if you don't masturbate you won't go blind? Your quote of John 3:16 supports what I said before: believe and you are in. It doesn't say "don't believe and you won't get in." For your interpretation, you must completely ignore the words in bold – the key action phrases in both of these verses. You can’t simply say it is through the grace of God alone – you must include the act of faith of believing that Christ died on the cross. To ignore that is to completely misunderstand Christianity. As I said above, the quotes support what I said. Ephesians 2:8 is about as crystal clear as you can get – it is only through faith that we can be saved, but that saving faith is only possible because of a gift from God – grace extended to us as sinners. Where is the word only in there? Not in any of the four versions I read before giving up. The phrase relates to the fact that salvation through faith is God's doing, not man's. It absolutely must follow that all non-Christians go to Hell. Scripture is God’s Word and scripture clearly indicates a non-Christian will not get into heaven (because he doesn’t believe). If you use your argument, you are arguing something that is in direct contrast to the teachings of Christ.No one is questioning God’s motive - the theology of saving grace through faith is direct from scripture. Finally, the new covenant which was brought about through Christ’s death on the cross was not made only with the Jews, as you indicate here. Read the New Testament – the new covenant is open to Jews and Gentiles (non-Jews) – God’s saving grace is open to anyone – as long as they have faith in Christ’s death on the cross. Just thought I should clarify these points, because your initial statement was not a true description of Christianity and the theology of grace and faith according to scripture. 364067[/snapback] You're right in correcting my mis-spoken words about the New Covenant being made to all, Jew and Gentile. I still say, and the Roman Catholic Church in Vatican II concurred, that while the only way to God is through Jesus, and God's grace came to all of us through the death of Jesus, it isn't necessarily so that only Christians are saved, or, more succinctly, only people who are Christians at the time of their death are saved. Chew on the semantics there a bit before responding...it's a long sentence . Read up on Romans 2:11-16. In Matthew 25 Jesus himself says that on judgement day that people will not be sorted by faith, but by deed. Call them 'implicit believers' or 'anonymous Christians,' but there are those who have led a good life who called God by another name You may be content with the notion that Ghandi, for example, is burning in perdition, but I am not. In the end we may agree to disagree on this, but I appreciate the chance to debate with you. If this side-chatter annoys others we can talk further through PM's, but I certainly invite the opportunity to share in fair debate. It is yet another way that us Kool-Aid drinkers can learn how to come closer to our God.
Recommended Posts