Bill from NYC Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 And if you read what I said, and what I bolded, I agree. But sometimes they have errored on the side of too much forgiveness. 362367[/snapback] Then we primarily agree. It seems to me that many in power did not see these acts of abuse to be as disgusting and shocking as they in fact were. I don't attribute ALL of this to "too much forgiveness." I sincerely hope that this rapidly changes, because I do not wish to see the collapse of the Catholic Church.
rockpile Posted June 20, 2005 Author Posted June 20, 2005 When they take the collection is just another glaring example of the Catholic church's reliance on guilt and shame. Why not just have an anonymous box for depositing their "donations"? Why, because then the entire congregation wouldn't get to see who donated and who didn't. It's only purpose is to shame people into opening their wallets and dumping cash into a basket on a stick. 362301[/snapback] Um, passing a plate or a basket on a stick to collect money is hardly limited to Catholics.
Johnny Coli Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 But feel free to remain "outraged". I mean, DAMN that terrible Catholic Church for asking for money to do all those terrible guilty things. You know....like pay the electric bill and clothe the poor of the Parish 362330[/snapback] Where did I say I was outraged? I AM a catholic...well, WAS a catholic. I find the catholic church to be hypocritical and exclusionary. I find my own views completely opposite to their views/stance on abortion and gay marriage. Their handling of pedophile priests bordered on the criminal. I am not outraged, I just do not identify with what their version of faith is.
VABills Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Where did I say I was outraged? I AM a catholic...well, WAS a catholic. I find the catholic church to be hypocritical and exclusionary. I find my own views completely opposite to their views/stance on abortion and gay marriage. Their handling of pedophile priests bordered on the criminal. I am not outraged, I just do not identify with what their version of faith is. 362384[/snapback] I know of plenty of people who do not "put into" the basket on Sunday. Some cannot afford it, others have money automatically donated and sent to the church on a given periodic basis, I know one guy who donates a lump sum once per year, and other who will wad some bills up and put them in the basket so others cannot see what they give. Trust me those in the pews do not really care whether one gives or not nor how much. And those that do have issues and should be concerned with themselves. Again there are Good and bad Catholics. It is not my job to judge those that give too much or too little. Where I go, the emphasis is more on donating your time then on giving money. I know money is an issue, at our Church, but the priests have always tried more to push the people to volunteer, get involved and help out with the mowing, the cleaning, the school setup, etc.... Never a big push for money. I cannot say about other Churches, but most I have gone to, it really was not lectured on during the mass and if something was said, it maybe one sentence about combining collections. But I look at that as administrative detail and pass over it. Anyone who picks that out is being overly sensitive in my opinion.
Johnny Coli Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Um, passing a plate or a basket on a stick to collect money is hardly limited to Catholics. 362383[/snapback] True. The money grab is not exclusive to the RCC. I just don't think it should be part of the religious ceremony. But, truth be told, it doesn't really matter to me, because I don't go to church. Look, I'm not a religious person if it is to be defined by how and where a person worships. I just try to live my life without screwing anybody over. I probably react the way I do because I was formerly Catholic. I'm only in this thread to piss off Ben Franklin, anyway.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Look, I'm not a religious person if it is to be defined by how and where a person worships.362397[/snapback] Au contraire, you ARE religious, because... I know you probably don't believe this, but religion is something inherent in all of us.
Adam Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 There are a lot of generalizations in this thread- not everybody that follows organized religion is a lemming, but there are way too many that do fit that category. Too often I have seen people follow a tradition that doensnt even hold any meaning for them, and they dont even know why they are doing things. This is habit- not religion.
rockpile Posted June 20, 2005 Author Posted June 20, 2005 I am not Catholic but am a "Born Again Christian". I am sorry you feel that way about Organized religion. My typical response to that is when someone says they had a bad experience for one reason or another, visiting churches and trying different denominations should maybe be like falling in love. I am also not Catholic (my wife is) and I am a born again Christian. I am certainly not ANTI-Catholic. When we baptised our children in the Catholic church, I made a promise to my God, that I would support them in their spiritual growth through all sacraments, and I kept my promise. Just because one breaks your heart and/or dissappoints you, doesn't mean the next one will. After the first girlfriend broke your heart, did you decide you would never go out with another girl again? Just because one church isn't what you think it should be for whatever reason, it shouldn't leave you so jilted that you never go again or generalize that they are all the same. (Rock - for the record i know you did not say they were all the same). Oooh, bad analogy. I do not need any church to practice my religion. But that girl thing.... some things are better when NOT done alone. This Parish, by the way is usually one of the better ones. In regard to your experience...i don't know what to tell you. In our church the guy that does the announcements and greets people ususally says, "if you are visiting please know that our church is fully supported by the tithes and offerings of our members so please do not feel any obligation to give anything. (I know that is what he says, because i am the guy that says it.) As far as the message, yesterday my Pastor preached a message on the love of the prodigal son's father. Good stuff. ...and for the record, all I find distasteful in the Catholic church is the method and timing of speaking about the NEED for money. 1. Easter Sunday, the 1st thing said should not be financial. 2. A prayer mass for my father-in-law was also a homily for raising money. 3. Father's Day homily was a pitch for WJZS In my experience, which includes almost all denominations, the Catholics are the only ones who did this - leaving a bad taste in my mouth and a reluctance to attend their mass. By the way, except for (some of) the mud-slinging I am enjoying this thread.
Alaska Darin Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Come check out the Mormons. You'll be impressed. 362332[/snapback] Everything I ever needed to know about the Mormon religion I learned by watching South Park. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb...
Lemur King Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 There is plenty of misdeeds attributable to the RCC but that should not extend to those things the RCC did well. Unless of course you are simply and completely anti-Catholic. 362313[/snapback] I hear Manson made a creat chicken fried steak. If he could serve one up for me right now, I would love it. Maybe even invite him over to my table. You know: I can take the good with the bad.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Everything I ever needed to know about the Mormon religion I learned by watching South Park. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb... 362425[/snapback] Creepy and unbelievably harsh would be more like it.
Rubes Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Everything I ever needed to know about the Mormon religion I learned by watching South Park. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb... 362425[/snapback]
Gavin in Va Beach Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Everything I ever needed to know about the Mormon religion I learned by watching South Park. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb... 362425[/snapback] The multiple wives thing could be kinda cool though...
Alaska Darin Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 The multiple wives thing could be kinda cool though... 362451[/snapback] Really? You able to keep the one you have happy?
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 The multiple wives thing could be kinda cool though... 362451[/snapback] Yeah...because being henpecked by one isn't torture enough...
Johnny Coli Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 I know of plenty of people who do not "put into" the basket on Sunday. Some cannot afford it, others have money automatically donated and sent to the church on a given periodic basis, I know one guy who donates a lump sum once per year, and other who will wad some bills up and put them in the basket so others cannot see what they give. Trust me those in the pews do not really care whether one gives or not nor how much. And those that do have issues and should be concerned with themselves. Again there are Good and bad Catholics. It is not my job to judge those that give too much or too little. Where I go, the emphasis is more on donating your time then on giving money. I know money is an issue, at our Church, but the priests have always tried more to push the people to volunteer, get involved and help out with the mowing, the cleaning, the school setup, etc.... Never a big push for money. I cannot say about other Churches, but most I have gone to, it really was not lectured on during the mass and if something was said, it maybe one sentence about combining collections. But I look at that as administrative detail and pass over it. Anyone who picks that out is being overly sensitive in my opinion. 362394[/snapback] Then why have the basket passed around at all? Why not have the basket/box/slot near the entrance to the church where people can unload their pockets on their way in or out? It's been a while for me, but isn't the basket passed around while the priest is preparing the sacrements? Shouldn't that be a time for personal reflection rather than emptying your pockets of spare change? As an example, maybe a bad one, but here it is none-the-less.... You're walking down the street thinking about something important (job, kids, life, the Bills), and a homeless person cuts you off and asks for your spare change. What's the first thought that crosses your mind? Seriously. If you are being truthfull, you're probably a bit irritated that this person is begging for change. You may give them some change, but what was your first reaction? Or...you tune into NPR (I know, quite a stretch for some of you) and they are having another damn fund drive. You wanted to hear the news, and they're asking you for cash on your commute. You wanted to hear more insightful analysis regarding the MJ trial, and instead these commies are hasseling you for your hard-earned cash. To top it off, you're at a stoplight and there's yet another vagrant walking between the cars begging for change, and another one soaping up your windshield. Leave me the hell alone, you say to yourself...the guy at the gas station just squee-geed my windshield, and I tipped him with all my spare change. This country has gone to hell.
Benjamin Franklin Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 This is a truly brilliant line of bull sh--. Really, it's genious. Pure art work. I'm going to print it and have it framed. Too bad the intelligent design you so desperately cling to in the real world is so sadly lacking in your own post... 362269[/snapback] Even in your higher mammalian brain, I see the hand of God. And I needn't study at a University (or even a college) to see it. Let's make a friendly wager. If you cannot refute ID, and I have yet to see a post where you do, attend Mass for a year. The stakes are low: you just need to prove that the hand of God is not at work in all you see. If you fail to do this, going to Mass for a year is a minor thing. If your faith in the science god is so unshakeable, this should be a triviality. Take a few days. And please, in the tradition originated by Catholics, "SHOW YOUR WORK."
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 The multiple wives thing could be kinda cool though... 362451[/snapback] Yeah... Wife #1: Get out and wash the cars! Wife #2: Mow the lawn! Wife #3: Did you clean out the garage yet? Wife #4: We don't have time to watch sportscenter! I need to go shopping! Uh, I'll pass.
Gavin in Va Beach Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Really? You able to keep the one you have happy? 362454[/snapback] I'd like to think so. But I'm mainly thinking along child care lines. I hate the idea of possibly sending my son to day care (don't have to at the moment). If I had another wife or two, one could stay home and tend to the kids while the rest work. I'm telling you it's gold Jerry, gold!
Benjamin Franklin Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Then why have the basket passed around at all? Why not have the basket/box/slot near the entrance to the church where people can unload their pockets on their way in or out? It's been a while for me, but isn't the basket passed around while the priest is preparing the sacrements? Shouldn't that be a time for personal reflection rather than emptying your pockets of spare change? As an example, maybe a bad one, but here it is none-the-less.... You're walking down the street thinking about something important (job, kids, life, the Bills), and a homeless person cuts you off and asks for your spare change. What's the first thought that crosses your mind? Seriously. If you are being truthfull, you're probably a bit irritated that this person is begging for change. You may give them some change, but what was your first reaction? Or...you tune into NPR (I know, quite a stretch for some of you) and they are having another damn fund drive. You wanted to hear the news, and they're asking you for cash on your commute. You wanted to hear more insightful analysis regarding the MJ trial, and instead these commies are hasseling you for your hard-earned cash. To top it off, you're at a stoplight and there's yet another vagrant walking between the cars begging for change, and another one soaping up your windshield. Leave me the hell alone, you say to yourself...the guy at the gas station just squee-geed my windshield, and I tipped him with all my spare change. This country has gone to hell. 362457[/snapback] Ahh- Dr. Biology. Welcome to the thread. The basket is important. It serves as a truly visible reminder how, as a bound community, we acheive more than as individuals. Sure, the individual can feed a man a meal, but only together can we teach him to farm.
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