Cook continues to drop passes

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 hours ago, NORWOODS FOOT said:

Cook is really talented, if a bit one dimensional, but it’s the gaffs in the big spots that lost my trust. He had a big statistical year, but still for some reason my gut says “wait and see”

 

PS Hope we draft this kid next year…

 

 

One dimensional???

How can you watch last season and call him one dimensional? He was top 5 in all-purpose yards. 

[Sierra Foothills]

14 hours ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Sax :

 

"Though never regarded as one of the top fielding second basemen in the league, Steve Sax inexplicably became incapable of making routine throws to first base in 1983, committing 30 errors that season.[6] This is referred to in baseball terminology as "Steve Sax syndrome", the fielder's variant of "Steve Blass disease", named after the Pirates pitcher who suffered a similar breakdown of basic mechanics (also known as "the yips"). As his accuracy suffered, fans sitting behind the first base dugout began wearing batting helmets as mock protection.[7] (Teammate Pedro Guerrero, an outfielder pressed into service at third base in 1983, once reportedly stated that his first thought whenever he was in the field was "I hope they don't hit it to me", while his second thought was "I hope they don't hit it to Sax.")"

 

The "yips" are a real thing.

 

Former Mets catcher Mackey Sasser reached a point where he couldn't toss the ball back to the pitcher after a pitch.

 

I think I read where he had to work with a psychotherapist to overcome the problem.

 

 

12 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

Wasn’t cook a football catching vacuum in college? I’m not overly concerned, I think his couple of bad drops on easy TDs have skewed a lot of perception. It’s gotta be just a concentration thing, he has the skill. 

 

It could be concentration or it could be psychological.

 

It could also be that he needs to see an eye doctor... incredibly that is sometimes an issue even in pro sports.

 

 

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Cook is pretty good. Let him touch the ball 400+ times over the next two years and then let him go.

 

Hopeful that Bass turns it around, but he sneaky was never really good. I think we have a new kicker in 25 personally.

 

I think the word is "quietly" not "sneaky."

 

[BillsVet]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

well 5 of the top 10 in drops are RBs so it should immediately be clear that they are overrepresented----maybe because they aren't wide receivers........

 

if your  RB1 can  otherwise catch over 80% of his targets while racking up over 1500 total yards, I'm struggling to see the logic in what you are trying to argue. 

 

The offense is going to be a lot different this season minus Diggs and Davis than it was last year.  They feature no decent options downfield and defenses will focus on defending a shorter field.  I don't see Cook replicating last season for that reason.  If he's dropping passes now, he'll do it in the regular season when the element of an intermediate passing game was in place.   

 

9 hours ago, Bockeye said:

The beloved Fred Jackson had 4 or more fumbles in FIVE of his seasons.  Never had 1,500 total yards either. 

Fred Jackson’s catch % was 73.7% for his career in Buffalo.

Cooks catch % so far is 75.6%

 

Marshall Faulk’s career % was 75.7%

 

Fred Jackson had almost 1,400 yards in 10 games in 2011 when he went down with a season-ending injury.

 

And if there's a choice between a 2009-2011 era Fred Jackson or 2023 James Cook the choice is easy who I'd want on the field at RB.  And it ain't Cook.

Edited August 14 by BillsVet

[DJB]

I’ve said this since he was drafted here. He has terrible hands and he is not a top end RB. He’s a product of Josh and our offense.

 

We need an elite 3 down back 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 minutes ago, DJB said:

I’ve said this since he was drafted here. He has terrible hands and he is not a top end RB. He’s a product of Josh and our offense.

 

We need an elite 3 down back 

Me think you don't know what the word elite means...

3rd RB in all purpose yards and 4th in rush yards

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Me think you don't know what the word elite means...

3rd RB in all purpose yards and 4th in rush yards

I think stats can be a bit mis leading though. He got a lot of yards cause he had light boxes and teams game planned to stop Josh/the deep pass.

 

For example: Brock Purdy had elite stats- Do you think he's an elite QB or did he benefit a lot cause the system he's in?

[Sierra Foothills]

17 minutes ago, DJB said:

I’ve said this since he was drafted here. He has terrible hands and he is not a top end RB. He’s a product of Josh and our offense.

 

6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I think stats can be a bit mis leading though. He got a lot of yards cause he had light boxes and teams game planned to stop Josh/the deep pass.

 

For example: Brock Purdy had elite stats- Do you think he's an elite QB or did he benefit a lot cause the system he's in?

 

Not saying how good Cook is/isn't but these are two good points.

 

Josh is a great QB and virtually everyone on the team benefits statistically by playing with him... and stats can be misleading.

 

 

[Bob in STL]

Cook shows signs that he can be very good.  Then he drops the ball an plays with inconsistency.  We are counting on more from him, hope he gets it going soon. 

[Mr. WEO]

40 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The offense is going to be a lot different this season minus Diggs and Davis than it was last year.  They feature no decent options downfield and defenses will focus on defending a shorter field.  I don't see Cook replicating last season for that reason.  If he's dropping passes now, he'll do it in the regular season when the element of an intermediate passing game was in place.   

 

 

Fred Jackson had almost 1,400 yards in 10 games in 2011 when he went down with a season-ending injury.

 

And if there's a choice between a 2009-2011 era Fred Jackson or 2023 James Cook the choice is easy who I'd want on the field at RB.  And it ain't Cook.

 

Well, Fred Jackson and his one really good season 13 years ago isn't walking through that door.  But so what?

 

Bills loaded up at WR this off-season, how do you know what their game will be like?  If Cook catches over 80% of his targets this year, I would take it.  Diggs disappeared after thanksgiving last year--they still won 6 in a row.   Ditto for Davis after Halloween.  What were the Defenses focusing on?

[DCofNC]

14 hours ago, BillsClinton said:

The amount of James Cook hate on this forum is.... pretty hilarious. He has dropped some untimely passes (that's an understatement) but he was literally sixth in yards from scrimmage in the NFL last year. The only RBs with more were McCaffrey and Breece Hall (whom Cook has a higher rushing avg). He had a higher rushing avg (4.7) and more yards than Travis Etienne, Bijan Robinson, Joe Mixon, Derrick Henry, Gibbs, Saquon, etc. etc. But I guess he's a bum and we should move on from him as quickly as possible.

 

Yes it sucks that he has problems catching the ball. That's why he's a running back and not a slot receiver. Do I wish he was CMC? Of course. But the Bills could do, and have done, a lot worse than James Cook. 

Look, the stats are what they are, BUT who’s to say another guy wouldn’t have been just as good, if not better.  RBs have been plugged into systems and succeeded for stints for many teams, over many years.  The most famous being the Broncos, making everyone and their brother look good.  Cook is pretty fast, but it’s all he brings.  I would argue, Ty Johnson would be just as successful and possibly more reliable than Cook.  So long as Davis gets over the fumble issue, he will over take Cook as the primary guy, pretty quickly and Johnson may be the primary back-up.  NFL is Not For Long when you can’t do the basics. He sucks at pass blocking, can’t be relied on to catch and isn’t a strong inside runner.  Davis does all of it, Samuel can do everything Cook does and Johnson is just as fast, just slightly less bounce to him.  Cook may find himself the odd man out, pretty quickly this year. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

50 minutes ago, DJB said:

I’ve said this since he was drafted here. He has terrible hands and he is not a top end RB. He’s a product of Josh and our offense.

 

We need an elite 3 down back 

Agreed on the first part but I don’t necessarily think we need an elite player at the position. It’d be nice, but reliability would be ideal.

[JohnNord]

17 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

“A lowlight was also produced during team drills, as running back James Cook recorded yet another drop on a pass from Allen as the team was backed up inside its own five-yard line. Cook has yet to resolve the drop issues that cropped up a season ago, which leaves cause for concern as the regular season draws near.”

https://www.thedailynewsonline.com/sports/bills-lb-milano-exits-practice-with-apparent-arm-injury-other-injury-roster-updates-from-tuesday/article_6bf0ec72-5995-11ef-9643-83fec1f719c3.html

 

If this continues to be a problem, I hope the Bills will not rely on Cook in the passing game.

The drops last season were killers and they continue to be baffling.  Cook was known as having “great hands” coming out of college

Edited August 14 by JohnNord

[Ethan in Cleveland]

58 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

Not saying how good Cook is/isn't but these are two good points.

 

Josh is a great QB and virtually everyone on the team benefits statistically by playing with him... and stats can be misleading.

 

 

Ok stats are meaningless and it is all Josh...

But but....

 

So then riddle me this, why did Singletary never go over 1000 yards rushing?  Hell he never even got to 900 yards. But Cook did. Did they not play soft boxes and defend deep passes when Singletary was the RB? 

[Sierra Foothills]

8 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Ok stats are meaningless and it is all Josh...

But but....

 

So then riddle me this, why did Singletary never go over 1000 yards rushing?  Hell he never even got to 900 yards. But Cook did. Did they not play soft boxes and defend deep passes when Singletary was the RB? 

 

I said stats can be misleading, not that they are meaningless.

 

Also I didn't judge Cook as a player so I'm certainly not saying that he's only as good or worse than Singletary.

 

Cook's certainly much more explosive and I imagine that accounts for the statistical differences you pointed out.

 

 

Edited August 14 by Sierra Foothills

[SoMAn]

18 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

They have to give Davis a fair shot to win the job.

History repeating? 

We had a decent starting back called Ronnie Harmon in the late 80s, but he too had some dropping issues and eventually lost his job with the emergence of Thurman Thomas, a more dynamic back that could run, catch, and block.

Edited August 14 by SoMAn

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

The "yips" are a real thing.

 

Former Mets catcher Mackey Sasser reached a point where he couldn't toss the ball back to the pitcher after a pitch.

 

I think I read where he had to work with a psychotherapist to overcome the problem

 

It could be concentration or it could be psychological.

 

 

I used to play in a tennis league with a sports psychologist. Everybody knew that in tight situations you could crowd his second serve and he was very likely to double fault. 

 

I never used him professionally.  

[The Firebaugh Kid]

VERY explosive player, but he seems to lose focus easily, and doesn't have that eye of the tiger vibe. 
Too mellow of a guy. 

[NORWOODS FOOT]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

One dimensional???

How can you watch last season and call him one dimensional? He was top 5 in all-purpose yards. 

I don’t get to watch many Bills games where I live. You probably have a larger sample size than me. 

[BillsVet]

55 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Well, Fred Jackson and his one really good season 13 years ago isn't walking through that door.  But so what?

 

Bills loaded up at WR this off-season, how do you know what their game will be like?  If Cook catches over 80% of his targets this year, I would take it.  Diggs disappeared after thanksgiving last year--they still won 6 in a row.   Ditto for Davis after Halloween.  What were the Defenses focusing on?

 

"Loaded up at WR this off-season..." 

 

Last season's over dude.  Brady's run-based offense isn't going to surprise anyone either this year.  

 

Many outlets have ranked the Bills WR's as bottom quartile in the NFL.  Buffalo acknowledged their issues by signing guys who are one foot out of the league like MVS and Claypool after the draft because they offer no one who can stretch a defense.    

 

Josh will largely be throwing to a bunch of slot receivers and backs this year.  That's how you know what their offense is going to be and if you can't see that, I'm sorry.    

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

"Loaded up at WR this off-season..." 

 

Last season's over dude.  Brady's run-based offense isn't going to surprise anyone either this year.  

 

Many outlets have ranked the Bills WR's as bottom quartile in the NFL.  Buffalo acknowledged their issues by signing guys who are one foot out of the league like MVS and Claypool after the draft because they offer no one who can stretch a defense.    

 

Josh will largely be throwing to a bunch of slot receivers and backs this year.  That's how you know what their offense is going to be and if you can't see that, I'm sorry.    

 

did "most outlets" predict that the Bills will have a bottom quartile passing Offense?