Predict what positional groups are better/worse in 2024?

[MasterStrategist]

I don't tend to think of position groups, rather overall offense and defense- which some groups are of higher importance due to scheme.

 

Offense:

1. Overall: this will always be QB dependent, and everything from training camp play to leadership, points to an improved Josh.  On top of that, offensive coordinator has a strong likelihood of being better than LY (Dorsey scheme).

 

2. Improvement: Qb play, coaching, short to intermediate passing game, RB play, TE usage/play

 

3. Same/not sure yet:

a. OL play.  I lean toward improvement, mainly if Torrence and Brown continue to ascend.  I like more physical Edwards vs Morse.  Doubt is if Edwards stays healthy, and if McGovern is better suited for LG vs C.

 

b. Deep passing game: Gabe was not great LY, Diggs became a #2/slot guy mostly too.  Keon and MVS, rook and an inconsistent player are pur best bets.  I'd lean toward early growing pains, and possible trade later in year

 

Defense:

1. Overall: this is so dependent on Milano and Von getting back to or very close to prior form.  This defense is predicated on strong LB play, and front 4 being able to control the line.  If someone said we'd have Milano/Bernard/Jones for 90% of games...that's enough to say they improved IMO - then a healthy Von would put us Top 5 IMO.   Safety play concerns me in pass defense, but haven't seen Edwards or Bishop yet.  Hamlin/Rapp combo, good against rub but not trusting in pass def.

 

2. Improvement: DT depth, I'm more hopeful about this group.  CB play looks very solid, Elam is more consistent and Ingram rounds out as a solid #4. 

 

3. Same: LB depth, still a concern.  Unless Dorian steps up.  

 

4. Worse: Safety play.  Athleticism improved, but getting in the right position/reading plays/etc was the Hyde and Poyer strength (instincts).  Safety can be hidden to some extent, but I'm concerned with lack of turnovers from this group-also think Rapp/Edwards/Hamlin are all stop gap types.  Bishop needs to get healthy and get into a more signicant role by early-mid season to have a chance to be the same as LY.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

LB's- slight improvement if Milano & Bernard stay healthy. 

 

QB, RB, TE, CB - all the same as I don't see any drastic drop off or improvement in any of these groups. 

 

DLine, S, Wrs- of these 3 the safety room is my biggest concern.  Not sold on Hamlin at all and hoping Bishop can get up to speed soon. Von will not achieve what Floyd did last season.  AJE still drips of mediocrity. The DLine will be the teams 2nd biggest issue. I think there will be a small drop in receiving efficiency,  BUT I can see Josh eventually developing very good chemistry with Samuel, Shakir & Coleman. 

 

OL- TBD?

Edited August 12 by LABILLBACKER

[H2o]

Safety and the OL are my biggest concerns. Weeks 2-6 will tell us how we stack up pretty quick. That will be Miami, Jax, Baltimore, Houston, and NY Jets. Tough schedule this year. No room for error. 

[msw2112]

My biggest concerns are safety and interior OL.  While Poyer and Hyde were clearly slower and it was time to move on, the replacement players lack the veteran leadership and savvy, plus Edwards and Bishop are new to the system and have lost a ton of reps due to injury.  I'd feel a lot more comfortable of all the new guys had the benefit of a full camp, but that's far from what's happened.  On the interior OL, McGovern at C is an experiment and may not go well.  It also may work out fine.  Only time will tell, but it's a risky move.  Saturday's game, while largely meaningless, did not instill any confidence that the new OL is ready.  The run blocking was nothing short of abysmal.

 

WR will be fine.  Shakir is really coming into his own and Samuel has a lot of talent and experience.  Coleman is a work in progress, but will be effective in certain situations (and hopefully, eventually, in all situations).  Hollis, MVS, Hamler, Claypool, etc. are probably better than our 4-7 last season.

 

Many young players should be better, just given more experience and another year in a NFL weight room.  That group includes Dorian Williams, Elam, Shakir (who has already been mentioned), Kincaid, and Torrence.  Cook and Benford too.  Arguably, Spencer Brown, Rousseau, and Epenesa could be also be better due to more experience and seasoning, but those guys have been around a while now and are "young veterans" so there's less room for improvement with them.  Von Miller should be better this year too, although I don't anticipate him returning to his career-best form, as those years are long behind him.

 

As mentioned above, Saturday's stinker didn't do much to move the needle, but a poor performance in a meaningless preseason game doesn't necessarily mean much of anything.

Edited August 12 by msw2112

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

This is why I don't understand anyone that doesn't want MVS on this team.  I don't care if he has hands issues.. we don't have his skillset currently and need someone to go out there and periodically run those clear out routes that once in a while Allen throws to. 

 

 

Yeah but MVS is washed up, IMO.   He put up a paltry 300 yards last season with a HOF QB in his prime and lot's of opportunity.   They probably have to keep him because they don't have options outside.......but his presence isn't going to draw extra attention unless he and Allen prove they can make teams pay over the top.  He hadn't really been doing that in KC so not sure why it will be different now.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Gabe went from whipping boy to a key departure?   Perhaps we will miss him. Don’t know. 
how did the CB room get worse?  Cause the dude on IR is gone?   Sad to see White go regardless. 
safety yes.  That’s the only group that took a major hit.  Which could be an issue. 
why not sign Tannehill over Trubisky?  Back up QB is rather important.  

Back up QB =  worse

 

I agree. Tannehill would’ve been a great insurance policy. People say the season would be over anyways if the starting QB goes down, but it’s not always gonna be a season ending injury. If Josh were to go out 4 games or so, I guarentee he would go a respectable .500 in that event. We now know w/ Trubisky, the defense is going to have to play lights out and Cook will need to summon his inner Barry Sanders for the Bills to have a shot. I just don’t get why they brought him back. He went 2-5 w/ Pittsburgh and played horribly in the process. Either shell the money over to get a top backup QB or sign a high-ceiling developmental guy who can learn behind Allen. I never understood why some of the worst backups float around the NFL for so long (and this goes the same for coaches.) Why field a guaranteed bust when you could take your chance on catching lightning in a bottle by playing a rookie who showed a little bit of magic  in college? 

[GASabresIUFan]

5 hours ago, DJB said:

Right now I’m very leery about giving him a big contract 

I don't think you have to worry.  Unless he plays like a pro-bowl caliber player this season, the Bills will let him go to free agency.  I think they really like Van Denmark.

[GASabresIUFan]

Better

1. TE - same players, but Kincaid in his 2nd year will take a major step forward.  90 catches with 1000 yards+.  Also a fully healthy Knox should contribute more than he did last season.  Brady will be calling a large number of 12 personnel plays

 

2. LBs - a healthy Milano, coupled with an improving Benard added to excellent depth in Williams, Spector and any of Morrow, Jones or Ulofoshio.

 

3. RBs - Cook will continue to develop plus the addition of Davis.  Add a more run oriented offense Brady at the helm

 

Same, but could be better

1. DE - Lost Floyd, but gained a healthy Miller coupled with a return of Rousseau to his natural position.  May have better depth with the development of Jonathan, the addition of Smoot, return of Epenesa plus draft pick Solomon

2. CB - Douglas, T Johnson and Benford return.  Elam looks improved.  If Elam and Benford continue to improve, the could become a huge strength of the D.

 

Same

1. DT - Oliver and Jones return.  Like the addition of Austin Johnson. Will Carter and D Williams provide adequate depth?

2. QB - Allen is Allen and could actually have a great season without having to force feed Diggs.  No depth behind him, just like in years past.

3. Kickers - Martin and Bass.  Talk about hit or miss here.  Let's hope Bass can return to being Bass-o-Matic.

 

Same, but could be worse

1. OL - 4/5 of the Oline return, with key depth David Edwards stepping in the lineup.  Morse and Bates are gone taking significant experience with them.  Van Denmark, Anderson, SVP and Grable have zero NFL game experience.  

 

Worse 

1. Safety - Rapp and Edwards, the pre-camp penciled in starters, are a downgrade from Hyde and Poyer.  Now add that Edwards is hurt and high draft pick Bishop is hurt.  Lewis is more CB than safety. That leaves the returning Hamlin as a de facto starter.   Hamlin played in only 5 games last season and mostly on special teams.  He did start 13 games at FS before his injury in 2022.  NFL vets K Jackson and Burgess were signed as injury insurance.  This position is currently a mess.  

 

Complete Unknown

1. WR - Out with Diggs, Davis, Harty and Sherfield.  In with Shakir (as a focal point), Samuel, rookie Coleman, Hollins, and maybe MVS or rookie Shavers.  Diggs was the only WR in the NFL to catch 1000+ that last 5 seasons.  However, Shakir has more effective than Diggs from week 7 forwards catching about the same number of yards on 1/3 the targets and had significantly more chunk plays per target (17 on 45 targets).  A significant piece of Diggs' 160 targets with be going to Kincaid at TE, thus possibly limiting the number of opportunities for the receivers.  Our top 3 WRs accounted for 2540 yards on 191 catches (286 targets) with 17 TDs.    Can Samuel, Shakir and Coleman give us 2500 yards?  I doubt it.  I'm projecting 2200 yards for the trio.  

 

 

 

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Yeah but MVS is washed up, IMO.   He put up a paltry 300 yards last season with a HOF QB in his prime and lot's of opportunity.   They probably have to keep him because they don't have options outside.......but his presence isn't going to draw extra attention unless he and Allen prove they can make teams pay over the top.  He hadn't really been doing that in KC so not sure why it will be different now.

 

The timing of the MVS signing was interesting to me - a whole 2 weeks after the draft and immediately after they released Quintez Cephus.  

 

It would really stink that they have to keep a lesser player on the active roster as little more than a decoy because they were late to acknowledge needing someone to be a true intermediate to deep threat. 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

Better:

 

WRs overall are better.  We didn’t have a slot guy last year.  Davis was terrible.  Diggs MIA weeks 10-20

 

Dline - healthy Von; Jones; Oliver; Groot; AJ, Johnson I like it - especially if Miller is at least 90 percent of 2022 Von.  

 

TE - experienced Kincaid, Knox in the role he was built for

 

 

Worse:

 

RBs - Cook and? 

Kicker and Punter - just a bad feeling about both.  Bass hasn’t improved he’s regressed.  He makes all his extra points that’s great.  No one feels good about any FGs beyond 40 yards.  

Safety - This could be fine bc McDs track record - or we regress bc Hamlin is a starter as of now and I don’t know what that means.  
 

[notpolian]

How about a different way to look at it:

 

Running game:  RBs are a wash to slightly improved.  OL is far more important and you are now missing your very experienced center/blocking coordinator.  Morse may not have been an elite talent but he knew what to do.  Plus your TEs still can't block much.  So at best overall a wash.

 

Passing game:  personnel are similar but you no longer have anyone who will draw a double team.  That with lack of receiver speed will compress defenses.  Teams may be able to just play man and dare us to beat them because we won't be able to separate.  If Kincaid becomes a master zone breaker ala Kelce it would help a lot.  So I fear worse, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

Run defense:  if everyone is healthy at best a wash because nothing has fundamentally changed except your safeties may be a liability.  Milano can help with splash plays but he's never been a thumper.  

 

Pass defense:  clearly worse.  The DL cannot consistently generate pressure on its own. I won't believe Miller is back until I see it, and he was less than worthless last year.  If both LBs are healthy they are better than what we had in the playoffs and both starters are good blitzers, but...the backfield, oof.  The DBs are not quick enough to play man except for Elam, who is a DPI machine and hasn't figured out zone last I saw him.  You can't play zone every down.  The safeties are the biggest concern on the team as many have stated.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 8/12/2024 at 7:55 AM, dave mcbride said:

By the latter part of 2023, Shakhir was a significantly better receiver than Davis, so they didn’t lose their top two receivers.

 

 

They lost their top 2 boundary receivers though.

 

Slot-only receivers like Shakir are easier to find.

 

I know some people think Shakir is somehow going to be great outside the numbers but I don't see it.   And when I was at practice he was the only receiver NOT running anything intermediate or deep.   They'd all be breaking it off 10-15 or more yards down the field and in the same sequence Shakir was pivoting at 5 yards.

 

I think they know what Shakir is and want to keep him there.

 

The problem is that Samuel is also best in the slot and IDEALLY Coleman would be given a ton of slot reps because successful teams are using the slot to

 

A) free up their WR1(see how the Dolphins use Tyreek Hill for instance). 

 

B) Break in raw rookies with WR1 ceilings (Rashee Rice and Puka Nacua for example).

 

 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They lost their top 2 boundary receivers though.

 

Slot-only receivers like Shakir are easier to find.

 

I know some people think Shakir is somehow going to be great outside the numbers but I don't see it.   And when I was at practice he was the only receiver NOT running anything intermediate or deep.   They'd all be breaking it off 10-15 or more yards down the field and in the same sequence Shakir was pivoting at 5 yards.

 

I think they know what Shakir is and want to keep him there.

 

The problem is that Samuel is also best in the slot and IDEALLY Coleman would be given a ton of slot reps because successful teams are using the slot to

 

A) free up their WR1(see how the Dolphins use Tyreek Hill for instance). 

 

B) Break in raw rookies with WR1 ceilings (Rashee Rice and Puka Nacua for example).

 

 

 

Agree with all this, although on B that is just traditionally where McVay uses his best receiver. He is an exception not the rule though. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They lost their top 2 boundary receivers though.

 

Slot-only receivers like Shakir are easier to find.

 

I know some people think Shakir is somehow going to be great outside the numbers but I don't see it.   And when I was at practice he was the only receiver NOT running anything intermediate or deep.   They'd all be breaking it off 10-15 or more yards down the field and in the same sequence Shakir was pivoting at 5 yards.

 

I think they know what Shakir is and want to keep him there.

 

The problem is that Samuel is also best in the slot and IDEALLY Coleman would be given a ton of slot reps because successful teams are using the slot to

 

A) free up their WR1(see how the Dolphins use Tyreek Hill for instance). 

 

B) Break in raw rookies with WR1 ceilings (Rashee Rice and Puka Nacua for example).

 

 

I see your point, but I was referring to the term "best receiver." Shakhir without question is a better player than Gabe Davis right now not factoring in specific WR sub-position. Davis was useless down the stretch in 2023.

Edited August 13 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I see your point, but I was referring to the term "best receiver." Shakhir without question is a better player than Gabe Davis right now not factoring in specific WR sub-position. Davis was useless down the stretch in 2023.

 

 

Technically correct but Davis is the better outside receiver.........and that's the more premium position because it's harder to fill with quality.

 

 Davis and Shakir are both very position specific, IMO.   Every camp the Bills would try to integrate Davis as a big slot and fail.   Last year they put him in the slot on the first snap of the preseason with both Allen and Davis on the field.........Allen gave him a perfect pass on a slant and it deflected off of his hands for an interception.   Experiment over.   As time went on and it became clearer that Davis didn't have any secondary pitches defense's just sat on his limited route tree.  

[Blank Stare]

Linebacker if Milano is out again:

 

 

Edited August 13 by Blank Stare

[PrimeTime101]

On 8/12/2024 at 7:50 AM, Einstein said:

QB - Same

RB - Same Better (depth is much better)

WR - Objectively worse with the loss of our top 2 WR’s Better (With Diggs gone, JA scanning the field with rout progression improves. We essentially have 2# 2 WR's on the field. Maybe 3. That makes us a more dangerous team then having one big target.)

TE - Same  Better (Kincaid off his rookie season will be a better player for it)

O Line - I fear that the loss of Morse which affects the left side of our line will loom large but i’m willing to same “Same” for now with 4/5 players returning.

 

D Line - Same, as I feel Miller will be better, offsetting the loss of Floyd

Linebackers - Improved with Milano back

Cornerbacks - Question mark. I’m really curious to see what happens here. Same
Safeties - Worse in leadership, improved in age and perhaps improved in athleticism (due to the improvement in age) This worries me only because of the unknown.  I think Speed will compensate for lack of talent at this position. We are way faster then last year. Poyer took horrible angles at open field players running towards him. We could always get Hyde back any time we want. He wont play for any other team.  In my humble opinion, I think we do not bring hyde back only because of the lack of speed at the position needed. 

Let me fix this for you.  

 

There you go. 

 

With Respect bro.

Edited August 14 by PrimeTime101