Bears @ Bills - Preseason Game 1 - SAT 08/10 - 1 PM

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Our O-line is the biggest question mark facing this team. If McGovern cannot make a transition without a drop off, and Edwards cannot adequately replace McGovern at guard, how can we effectively present a run heavy threat to dominate with the passing game. As it is we’re throwing out all new receivers except for Shakir. Sooner or later Dawkins will show some real decline if he hasn’t already and our depth is just ordinary. I predict the rookie will be the center with McGovern back at guard before mid season.

I did not watch long enough to see who backed up Connor

But Edwards mat not be the answer at LG. And Cook missed his blitz pick up

Very lazy look from the team

Like they neither studied nor practiced their assignments/roles

[4merper4mer]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Correct.  Nothing in this game gives us hope….and I didn’t expect anything to give us hope.  
 

my only take aways from this game-

 

-the OL could be a big concern.  
-our WRs are going to be gangbusters blocking downfield. 

-Shane Buechele is terrible.

- most of guys that are going to get cut should be cut. 

 

Brady and Babich will make it break our season-  that was my belief going into the game and nothing has changed or had a possibility to change after the game.  It’s week 1 preseason 

Brady is already a proven failure.  Josh can overcome some of that.  It will put a lot of pressure on both Babich and Allen.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Didn't the Bills have a combined 4 - 12 preseason record the years they went to 4 straight Super Bowls? 

Haven't seen a single post in the thread concerned with losing. Lots of posts concerned with the level of play they saw.  Expectations were low for everyone. And for some the results were still below the expectations.  

[NewEra]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

Brady is already a proven failure.  Josh can overcome some of that.  It will put a lot of pressure on both Babich and Allen.

Yeah- a “proven” failure with Darnold, Teddy, pj Walker and cam Newton…..

[WideNine]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Didn't the Bills have a combined 4 - 12 preseason record the years they went to 4 straight Super Bowls? 

 

Luckily, we have had coaches that know how preseason should be leveraged to improve your team.

 

Of course you don't want to see sloppy technique and execution, and McDermott did exactly the right thing playing that up and serving notice to all the players vying for roster spots that they did not perform up to the standard needed.

 

The other more subtle message was to his coaches that they need to prepare those players better and work to correct what can be corrected.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Haven't seen a single post in the thread concerned with losing. Lots of posts concerned with the level of play they saw.  Expectations were low for everyone. And for some the results were still below the expectations.  

 

That is a good thing.

 

I saw a few panic posts, but mostly been there done that.

 

 

Edited August 11 by WideNine

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Haven't seen a single post in the thread concerned with losing. Lots of posts concerned with the level of play they saw.  Expectations were low for everyone. And for some the results were still below the expectations.  

A distinction without much of a difference.  I'll rephrase my statement though:  back in the day when they were going to Super Bowls the Bills had plenty of preseason games in which the level of play was bad.

 

 

[3rdand12]

11 minutes ago, WideNine said:

I would rather have a mistake-prone first outing where as a coach you have the players attention. You can identify areas where you need to tighten the thumb screws on preparation, proper technique, and execution.

 

You can find those things even on basic vanilla plays. And we have a lot of new drafted, udfa, or cast off players.

 

The main goal is to evaluate players for roster cuts in live action at NFL speed, off the practice field. And we all know you want to get out of preseason without losing starters to freak injury.

 

Better than coming out with scripted plays and winning the preseason and having a false sense of confidence that gets you smoked in regular season.

 

I thought with all the rule changes and new bodies STs had the potential to be a cluster, and yep it needs work.

 

Was only really surprised by the OL lack of push in the run game and folks can always see the drop-off from what Allen makes happen when we dip into our QB depth.

 

Always felt Allen had a bit of a slow trigger holding the ball, but lordy his backups made me appreciate his decisiveness and pocket presence.

 

The DL interior had a lot of inexperience manning the gaps, especially when Oliver left and with DQ out and it showed. Not a lot of push and when they did get penetration they were not gap sound.

 

That middle screen Chicago called that gained a chunk, just took advantage of that DL frustration to leak their RB out for the shovel. Preseason, but a good call at the right time.

 

Looking forward to Marino's All-22 review.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You make good points in regard to allowing players to be challenged during the game , then reviewing the mistakes /weakness and the many points of reference to improve.

Winning the preseason does nothing except build false swagger into week one.

 But this game earned a Humble  Pies for all  lol

[Eastport bills]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

I did not watch long enough to see who backed up Connor

But Edwards mat not be the answer at LG. And Cook missed his blitz pick up

Very lazy look from the team

Like they neither studied nor practiced their assignments/roles

This has been my knock on Sean, he has yet to provide an O -line that can support arguably the best arm talent QB in football. Couple that with his game day decision making and you have a team that comes up short every season.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 But this game earned a Humble  Pies for all  lol

Which is exactly what coaches want for next weeks practice.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Incorrect.

 

The salary cap is based on a revenue split between owners and the NFLPA that INCLUDES preseason revenues.   Which is SIGNIFICANT money.   If you were a season ticket holder you would know that we have to pay for those games whether attended or not.   20 games played is a fundamental aspect of the CBA.  That is unlikely to EVER change.   When they go to 18 there will still be 2 preseason games.

 

If the preseason was played with 53 man rosters they would HAVE TO issue game checks.   They don't because there is an understanding that the owners and actual players don't want to split revenues with those who aren't good enough to make teams.   Once you make the roster,  that preseason tv and ticket revenue is included in the basis for the salary cap which is in turn the basis the contract was negotiated and the game checks the players receive.    

We are both correct. Yes the income from the preseason games goes into the pot of money that ultimately determines the salary cap.  That is not tiny but still mostly insignificant compared to TV income from regular season games.  

It has been a ripoff since day 1 that season ticket holders have to pay full price for these games.  A true travesty but in the end people would jsut pay a higher cost for season tickets for the 8 games if the pre-season wasn't included.  

And I'm sure the players don't see it as real income.  They only get paid bonus checks and game checks and they aren't getting a game check for this week.  They do get a camp stipend of something like $3200 a week.  That pales in comparison to a say a $2M roster bonus or a $10M salary divided over 17 games which amounts to over $500K a game.  Even league average salary is nearly $180K a game.  So that $3200 for the week is 1.7% of the average NFL salary game check.  

6 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

This has been my knock on Sean, he has yet to provide an O -line that can support arguably the best arm talent QB in football. Couple that with his game day decision making and you have a team that comes up short every season.

They have the best LT, RT, RG combo they have ever had.  

Never though much of Morse anyways. 

If Edwards is not cutting it at LG I'd be fine moving McGovern back to G and playing Anderson or the rookie in the pivot.  

 

[GolfandBills]

It definitely looked like most of them didn’t want to be there.  Horrible effort top to bottom for the most part 

Edited August 11 by GolfandBills

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

We are both correct. Yes the income from the preseason games goes into the pot of money that ultimately determines the salary cap.  That is not tiny but still mostly insignificant compared to TV income from regular season games.  

It has been a ripoff since day 1 that season ticket holders have to pay full price for these games.  A true travesty but in the end people would jsut pay a higher cost for season tickets for the 8 games if the pre-season wasn't included.  

And I'm sure the players don't see it as real income.  They only get paid bonus checks and game checks and they aren't getting a game check for this week.  They do get a camp stipend of something like $3200 a week.  That pales in comparison to a say a $2M roster bonus or a $10M salary divided over 17 games which amounts to over $500K a game.  Even league average salary is nearly $180K a game.  So that $3200 for the week is 1.7% of the average NFL salary game check.  

 

 

 

 

No, you were wrong.   You were trying to refute my point that players and owners both profit from the preseason games and that's why they exist.

 

You clearly hadn't thought it thru.

 

If you make a roster you benefit financially from preseason AND postseason games.   Whether you play in them or not.  Because the cap is based on gross revenue not just regular season revenue.   When you get the paycheck is irrelevant.  If you work at a company that issues checks every other week did you not get paid for the other week where you didn't receive a "check"?  

 

My point is fact and stands.

 

And the Bills sold approximately 64,000 tickets for that game yesterday and the game was nationally televised live on NFLN.   These games draw big ratings.   It's 8 figures into the shared revenue pool for each game no matter how you slice it.    Spread that over 49 preseason games.    It's very significant and the easiest money the owners and players earn.

[Chaos]

53 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

A distinction without much of a difference.  I'll rephrase my statement though:  back in the day when they were going to Super Bowls the Bills had plenty of preseason games in which the level of play was bad.

 

 

Pretty big distinction. Your new point may be valid.  I would be lying if I could say I remember preseason games from the super bowl run.  One post in this thread said their recollection was that the starting offense typically came out, scored in 48 seconds, and then we called it a day.  So I am not sure if you recollection that the preseason games was ALL bad play like yesterday is true. 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Why do people still ask this?    It's MONEY.   Revenue.   They have been selling tickets for and now broadcasting all of 20 game seasons for 60 some years now.  Being preseason allows the owners and players to make money and use mostly camp fodder to do so in 6 of those games until 1978 and then 4 of those games........and now 3 of those games and soon 2 of those games.   

Thats assuming that nothing changes….but everything always changes. Heck, we now have kickoffs that look nothing like they did six months ago. So….why not change up preseason so the teams deal with it differently than they do now? 

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

We are both correct. Yes the income from the preseason games goes into the pot of money that ultimately determines the salary cap.  That is not tiny but still mostly insignificant compared to TV income from regular season games.  

It has been a ripoff since day 1 that season ticket holders have to pay full price for these games.  A true travesty but in the end people would jsut pay a higher cost for season tickets for the 8 games if the pre-season wasn't included.  

And I'm sure the players don't see it as real income.  They only get paid bonus checks and game checks and they aren't getting a game check for this week.  They do get a camp stipend of something like $3200 a week.  That pales in comparison to a say a $2M roster bonus or a $10M salary divided over 17 games which amounts to over $500K a game.  Even league average salary is nearly $180K a game.  So that $3200 for the week is 1.7% of the average NFL salary game check.  

They have the best LT, RT, RG combo they have ever had.  

Never though much of Morse anyways. 

If Edwards is not cutting it at LG I'd be fine moving McGovern back to G and playing Anderson or the rookie in the pivot.  

 

Being objective, Dawkins is just Ok. He’ll dominate periodically but he also is very spotty. Brown and Torrence  are potentially very solid, but Brown has to stay healthy.  A word of caution before dismissing Morse, we haven’t seen McGovern play a game that counts. Yesterday he had problems with pressure up the middle. I know it’s a meaningless few series but I don’t trust Sean with personnel decisions on offense. Remember, when it counted our O-line sucked against Cinn and KC.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

This has been my knock on Sean, he has yet to provide an O -line that can support arguably the best arm talent QB in football. Couple that with his game day decision making and you have a team that comes up short every season.

 

The Bills OL was rated one of the best last season and Kromer is a proven talent coaching up lines.

 

Did they bring their "A" game yesterday, not-so-much. I expect you will see gradual improvements as they tune things up over each preseason game and those that earn it will get increased opportunities and more reps to earn spots starting or backing those guys up. The rest will either be cut and/or stashed on the practice squad if they have some potential and need more time to develop.

 

Training camp from all reports has had a lot of good vibes, but I am a firm believer that humans are more motivated to avoid a slap than to work for a bit of positive reinforcement. Not advocating for abuse, but humans are pain and risk adverse by nature and very motivated to avoid both (the ol' iron sharpens iron adage). This outing will be a good learning tool and will help instill a sense of urgency for better focus and performance getting ready for the next game.

Yesterday there certainly were some missed assignments, but I expect yesterday was more about evaluating positions for our 2nd and 3rd string players and if they could adequately backup starting roles and giving those on the bubble a chance to try to change their trajectory.

Edited August 11 by WideNine

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thats assuming that nothing changes….but everything always changes. Heck, we now have kickoffs that look nothing like they did six months ago. So….why not change up preseason so the teams deal with it differently than they do now? 

 

They've made a lot of changes to the kicking game in the name of player safety over the years.    But they haven't changed the 20 game season.   Someone in ownership or the NFLPA would actually have to benefit from eliminating them.  

 

Once they get down to 2 games they could conceivably play the preseason without needing any snaps from players likely to make the 53 except kicker/punter/LS.   With practice squads up to 17(?) the NFLPA may want some of these guys to get some actual game reps before the season.    

[Eastport bills]

4 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

The Bills OL was rated one of the best last season and Kromer is a proven talent coaching up lines.

 

Did they bring their "A" game yesterday, not-so-much. I expect you will see gradual improvements as they tune things up over each preseason game and those that earn it will get increased opportunities and more reps. The rest will either be cut and/or stashed on the practice squad if they have some potential and need more time to develop.

 

Training camp from all reports has had a lot of good vibes, but I am a firm believer that humans are more motivated to avoid a slap than to work for a bit of positive reinforcement. Not advocating for abuse, but humans are pain and risk adverse by nature and very motivated to avoid both (the ol' iron sharpens iron adage). This outing will be a good learning tool and will help instill a sense of urgency for better focus and performance getting ready for the next game.

Yesterday there certainly were some missed assignments, but I expect yesterday was more about evaluating positions for our 2nd and 3rd string players and if they could adequately backup starting roles and giving those on the bubble a chance to try to change their trajectory.

Optimism is always refreshing, but consider Morse and McGovern were part of an O-line that has been changed. Dawkins said himself he hasn’t been with the same LG for more than a year and affects production.

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

They've made a lot of changes to the kicking game in the name of player safety over the years.    But they haven't changed the 20 game season.   Someone in ownership or the NFLPA would actually have to benefit from eliminating them.  

 

Once they get down to 2 games they could conceivably play the preseason without needing any snaps from players likely to make the 53 except kicker/punter/LS.   With practice squads up to 17(?) the NFLPA may want some of these guys to get some actual game reps before the season.    

I’m not suggesting to eliminate them. They haven’t eliminated the kickoff. They changed it. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not suggesting to eliminate them. They haven’t eliminated the kickoff. They changed it. 

 

What would they change?   Part of the reason they get away with charging full price for the games is that they could tell a court that they are technically the same product as the regular season.   60 minutes of competitive football.   There are no guarantees that any particular player will play in ANY game.   Sometimes late season games turn into preseason quality games too.   So the idea of playing differently formatted games, for instance, might undermine their racket.