LeviF Posted August 21 Posted August 21 6 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: As far as I’m concerned they can choose to be American or not, just like I can. Then being "American" is pure accident, meaningless. And as far as they go, many of them "choose" to not be American. So why should they be able to lay claim to the term "native American?" 1
phypon Posted August 21 Posted August 21 5 minutes ago, Roundybout said: Yes I’m sure this is completely legitimate Yes, I'm sure all of the agents and security guards were all in on the ruse. You still have time, go to the convention and see if you can get in. Let us know how that works out for you. 1 1
Roundybout Posted August 21 Posted August 21 3 minutes ago, phypon said: Yes, I'm sure all of the agents and security guards were all in on the ruse. You still have time, go to the convention and see if you can get in. Let us know how that works out for you. Ok go get me an interview with them supporting this. Otherwise it’s no different than Lee Davinci telling us about how black people are all voting Trump
phypon Posted August 21 Posted August 21 3 minutes ago, Roundybout said: Ok go get me an interview with them supporting this. Otherwise it’s no different than Lee Davinci telling us about how black people are all voting Trump Go to the convention and let us know if they let you in. Pretty simple. 2
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 21 Posted August 21 9 minutes ago, LeviF said: Then being "American" is pure accident, meaningless. And as far as they go, many of them "choose" to not be American. So why should they be able to lay claim to the term "native American?" Because they’re native Americans …the meaning is the rights of citizens. I could become a UK citizen thru marriage and renounce my US citiz n. Then I’d be entitled to the rights of a British citizen. Why is English heritage so important to you? Many Brit’s have Viking or Roman heritage from centuries ago. This is not a black and white question. It’s muddied by history and human sexual behavior. 1 1
LeviF Posted August 21 Posted August 21 1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Because they’re native Americans …the meaning is the rights of citizens. I could become a UK citizen thru marriage and renounce my US citiz n. Then I’d be entitled to the rights of a British citizen. Why is English heritage so important to you? Many Brit’s have Viking or Roman heritage from centuries ago. This is not a black and white question. It’s muddied by history and human sexual behavior. No. They aren't. They are descended from the first settlers of this giant land mass but in most cases failed at statecraft. In the cases where they did not (say, the Aztecs), they were rightly and ruthlessly conquered. The "natives" of this country are those who are descended from the founders of this country (described above) and those that lived and assimilated among and with them in the 17th and 18th centuries. If you became a Japanese citizen through marriage and became entitled to the rights of a Japanese citizen, renouncing your US citizenship and permanently relocating yourself to Osaka, would you then consider yourself Japanese?
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 21 Posted August 21 (edited) 8 minutes ago, LeviF said: No. They aren't. They are descended from the first settlers of this giant land mass but in most cases failed at statecraft. In the cases where they did not (say, the Aztecs), they were rightly and ruthlessly conquered. The "natives" of this country are those who are descended from the founders of this country (described above) and those that lived and assimilated among and with them in the 17th and 18th centuries. If you became a Japanese citizen through marriage and became entitled to the rights of a Japanese citizen, renouncing your US citizenship and permanently relocating yourself to Osaka, would you then consider yourself Japanese? Yes and if I became a British citizen I’d be British just like any other naturalized immigrant trump ( drumpf) is of German ancestory. His genetics are not directly descendent from the founders. Is he an American? There are so many flaws in your thesis and inconsistencies it’s hard to know where to start. Your definition of American is arbitrary and not supported by American law or history Edited August 21 by Joe Ferguson forever 1
Roundybout Posted August 21 Posted August 21 20 minutes ago, phypon said: Go to the convention and let us know if they let you in. Pretty simple. Oh sure this is a logical argument. 1
LeviF Posted August 21 Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Yes and if I became a British citizen I’d be British just like any other naturalized immigrant trump ( drumpf) is of German ancestory. His genetics are not directly descendent from the founders. Is he an American? There are so many flaws in your thesis and inconsistencies it’s hard to know where to start. Your definition of American is arbitrary and not supported by American law or history It’s supported by both. The ignorance is yours. To you, nationality is an accidental fiction. Something that you can step into and out of. This is a fundamental philosophical difference that separates you from thousands of years of thinking on the matter. We can’t have a productive conversation about it. 1
Roundybout Posted August 21 Posted August 21 4 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Will he tell us if Biden likes ranch with his wings? THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW 1 1
Starr-Bills Posted August 21 Posted August 21 35 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I think we know you're not comfortable answering the question posed. That's pretty common, actually. ::sigh:: Yes, perhaps. At the same time, it's not at all uncommon for we children of immigrants to be expected to follow the rule of law of our society. We stand in line where necessary, we present our papers under certain situations, contribute to the tax base as directed, wait at border crossings in and border crossings out. When traveling to foreign lands, we wait in the lines established by the hosts who welcome us, fill out forms as directed, empty our pockets, take off our shoes, and do the best we can to follow their customs. It's a complicated but relatively straightforward process, yet when that's discussed, we get sanctimonious lectures about being immigrants/children of immigrants as if that magically addresses the problem. I mean you may not like my answer but I did (and do try to answer) so whatever grandstanding makes you feel better, cool. okay so lines, rule of law, you want a medal for driving on the right side of the road and stopping at stop signs as well? 🏅🏅🏅(so socialist of you btw 😉) people are coming, the promise of America is strong. So instead of walls and detention why not welcome them in, document them and let them contribute to society (with work and taxes) as they earn the rights of citizenship. Often the converts are the strongest adherents, what a great way to melting pot the situation. Feeding two birds with one scone.
wnyguy Posted August 21 Posted August 21 (edited) 19 minutes ago, LeviF said: would you then consider yourself Japanese? I really think so. Edited August 21 by wnyguy 1 1
Starr-Bills Posted August 21 Posted August 21 15 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: I haven’t met Walz, but yea, happy, successful and willing to give back.
The Frankish Reich Posted August 21 Posted August 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, LeviF said: Which part is BS? Many of the so-called "indigenous" peoples maintain their sovereignty from the United States all the while attempting to reap the benefits of American citizenship, for all that's worth. Why would these people be Americans by any reasonable definition? Because they are U.S. citizens by law. You may be a white man, descended from German stock, and living under the authority of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, just as you may be an American Indian man, of Navajo ancestry, living under the authority of the Navajo nation. Both Americans. Period. In disputes between a state government and the federal government or between two states, we often refer to these as "sister sovereign" matters. Edited August 21 by The Frankish Reich 3
Starr-Bills Posted August 21 Posted August 21 6 minutes ago, LeviF said: It’s supported by both. The ignorance is yours. To you, nationality is an accidental fiction. Something that you can step into and out of. This is a fundamental philosophical difference that separates you from thousands of years of thinking on the matter. We can’t have a productive conversation about it. My question is 99 floors seem to be a lot of floors of apathy to climb, how do you explain that? 2
phypon Posted August 21 Posted August 21 9 minutes ago, Roundybout said: Oh sure this is a logical argument. Yes, that is a logical point. In fact, it's the epitome of logic. 1
LeviF Posted August 21 Posted August 21 13 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Because they are U.S. citizens by law. You may be a white man, descended from German stock, and living under the authority of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, just as you may be an American Indian man, of Navajo ancestry, living under the authority of the Navajo nation. Both Americans. Period. In disputes between a state government and the federal government or between two states, we often refer to these as "sister sovereign" matters. Again, citizenship is a legal matter we apply to people. Nationality is not, at least not in the historic use of the term. People that claim to be part of a sovereign nation within the United States should lay no claim to the term “native” except as applies to whatever failed state their parentage hailed. 2 1
Recommended Posts