Projecting the 53 man roster

[GASabresIUFan]

18 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

There is no way we keep just 5 WR's. Not gonna happen.

That’s all they kept last year.  

Edited August 19 by GASabresIUFan

[SoonerBillsFan]

40 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

That’s all the kept last year.  

Then we are losing needed talent.  Maybe Josh needs to speak up

[gonzo1105]

Through 2 weeks of preseason I think this is how I would like to go, subject to change obviously

 

 

QB- Allen, Trubisky (or whoever they decide to pick up) (2)

RB- Cook, Davis, Johnson (3)

FB- Gilliam (1)

WR- Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Hollins, Shavers, Hamler (6)

TE- Kincaid, Knox, Morris, Davidson (4)

OL- Dawkins, Edwards, McGovern, Torrence, Brown, Van Pran, Anderson, Vandemark, Grable, Gouriage (10)

DE- Rousseau, Epenesa, Miller, Smoot, Solomon (5)

DT- Oliver, Jones, Johnson, Carter (4)

LB- Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, Morrow, Andreessen (5)

CB- Benford, Douglas, Johnson, Elam, Ingram, Hardy (6)

S- Rapp, Hamlin, Bishop, Lewis (4)

 

K- Bass

P- Martin

LS- Ferguson (3)

 

IR with opportunity to return - Matt Milano, Mike Edwards

[GASabresIUFan]

10 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Then we are losing needed talent.  Maybe Josh needs to speak up

Have we? Who have we really missed out on?  Shakir has developed nicely.  We got everything we could from McKenzie.  Ray-Ray McCloud? Hodgins?

[NeverOutNick]

23 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Through 2 weeks of preseason I think this is how I would like to go, subject to change obviously

 

 

QB- Allen, Trubisky (or whoever they decide to pick up) (2)

RB- Cook, Davis, Johnson (3)

FB- Gilliam (1)

WR- Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Hollins, Shavers, Hamler (6)

TE- Kincaid, Knox, Morris, Davidson (4)

OL- Dawkins, Edwards, McGovern, Torrence, Brown, Van Pran, Anderson, Vandemark, Grable, Gouriage (10)

DE- Rousseau, Epenesa, Miller, Smoot, Solomon (5)

DT- Oliver, Jones, Johnson, Carter (4)

LB- Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, Morrow, Andreessen (5)

CB- Benford, Douglas, Johnson, Elam, Ingram, Hardy (6)

S- Rapp, Hamlin, Bishop, Lewis (4)

 

K- Bass

P- Martin

LS- Ferguson (3)

 

IR with opportunity to return - Matt Milano, Mike Edwards

I think this is close to accurate thus far. Maybe the LBs aren’t right and shavers could be put on PS for a guy like Corey Davis but good take. Hate the safety room but I agree that at this point both hardy and hamler make it

[SoonerBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Have we? Who have we really missed out on?  Shakir has developed nicely.  We got everything we could from McKenzie.  Ray-Ray McCloud? Hodgins?

Ok then  I amend my statement to "we WOULD BE" losing out on WR talent.  We need 6 WR's

36 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Through 2 weeks of preseason I think this is how I would like to go, subject to change obviously

 

 

QB- Allen, Trubisky (or whoever they decide to pick up) (2)

RB- Cook, Davis, Johnson (3)

FB- Gilliam (1)

WR- Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Hollins, Shavers, Hamler (6)

TE- Kincaid, Knox, Morris, Davidson (4)

OL- Dawkins, Edwards, McGovern, Torrence, Brown, Van Pran, Anderson, Vandemark, Grable, Gouriage (10)

DE- Rousseau, Epenesa, Miller, Smoot, Solomon (5)

DT- Oliver, Jones, Johnson, Carter (4)

LB- Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, Morrow, Andreessen (5)

CB- Benford, Douglas, Johnson, Elam, Ingram, Hardy (6)

S- Rapp, Hamlin, Bishop, Lewis (4)

 

K- Bass

P- Martin

LS- Ferguson (3)

 

IR with opportunity to return - Matt Milano, Mike Edwards

I like your roster. Cant stand Troublebisky and Milano is toast imho. But I like your overall.

[GASabresIUFan]

3 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

k then  I amend my statement to "we WOULD BE" losing out on WR talent.  We need 6 WR's

Who? Who in camp has impressed you and makes you think he could be a major cog in the offense or step up if one of the top receivers is injured?  Hamler? Shavers? Shorter? MVS?  Isabella? Maybe one of these guys has done something during practice to convince management that they are worthy of a roster spot, but I doubt anyone of them will have an impact on the roster even if they make the team.  

 

 

[CSBill]

13 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Through 2 weeks of preseason I think this is how I would like to go, subject to change obviously

 

 

QB- Allen, Trubisky (or whoever they decide to pick up) (2)

RB- Cook, Davis, Johnson (3)

FB- Gilliam (1)

WR- Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Hollins, Shavers, Hamler (6)

TE- Kincaid, Knox, Morris, Davidson (4)

OL- Dawkins, Edwards, McGovern, Torrence, Brown, Van Pran, Anderson, Vandemark, Grable, Gouriage (10)

DE- Rousseau, Epenesa, Miller, Smoot, Solomon (5)

DT- Oliver, Jones, Johnson, Carter (4)

LB- Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, Morrow, Andreessen (5)

CB- Benford, Douglas, Johnson, Elam, Ingram, Hardy (6)

S- Rapp, Hamlin, Bishop, Lewis (4)

 

K- Bass

P- Martin

LS- Ferguson (3)

 

IR with opportunity to return - Matt Milano, Mike Edwards

 

I like this, but I'm not sure they will keep four TEs, especially with Gilliam, who can also slide over to TE if needed.

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Then we are losing needed talent.  Maybe Josh needs to speak up

 

Who? I don't see any "needed talent" at receiver spots 5,6,7.

[GunnerBill]

Thought I'd update my projection. My first go is here for those wanting a look. 

 

QB (2): Josh Allen, Mitch Trubisky

FB (1): Reggie Gilliam

RB (3): James Cook, Ray Davis, Ty Johnson

TE (34) Dalton Kincaid, Dawson Knox, Quintin Morris, Zach Davidson

WR (65) Keon Coleman, Curtis Samuel, Khalil Shakir, Mack Hollins, Marquez Valdez-Scantling, Tyrell Shavers

OL (910) Dion Dawkins, Connor McGovern, David Edwards, O'Cyrus Torrence, Spencer Brown, Ryan Van Demark, Alec Anderson, Sedrick Van Pran-Granger, Tylan Grable, Will Clapp La'el Collins**

Offense Total: 25

 

DT (4): Ed Oliver, DaQuan Jones, Austin Johnson, DeWayne Carter

DE (65) Greg Rousseau, AJ Epenesa, Von Miller, Dawuane Smoot, Kingsley Jonathan, Javon Solomon

LB (5): Matt Milano, Terrel Bernard, Dorian Williams, Baylon Spector, Edefuan Ulofoshio, Joe Andreessen

CB (6): Rasul Douglas, Christian Benford, Taron Johnson, Kaiir Elam, Ja'Marcus Ingram, Daequan Hardy

S (5): Taylor Rapp, Mike Edwards, Cole Bishop, Cam Lewis, Damar Hamlin

Defense Total: 25

 

ST (3): Tyler Bass (K), Sam Martin (P), Reid Ferguson (LS)

Special Teams Total: 3

 

Summary of changes:

1. Zach Davidson in, Tyrell Shavers out. I just don't see a 6th receiver who deserves to make the roster. To be honest I'm not sure I see a 5th receiver who deserves to make it, but if the neck is clear for MVS (and it seems to be) I think they are going to err on the side of caution and he will make the team as a vet outside option. The additional spot freed up by Shavers going to the practice squad is taken by Davidson. They are going to play a lot of 12 again I think and their tight end room looks better than their receiver room. If a 6th receiver makes it then watch out for Justin Shorter who got 1st team gunner reps on Saturday.

 

2. Tylan Grable and Will Clapp in, La'el Collins out. Tylan Grable has made himself too big of a risk for the practice squad. He has been the best 2nd stringer lineman through two games and has shown he can play right and left side. So I add him to make the OL group 10 deep. Then Clapp for Collins is a swapping out of one vet backup for another. The rest of the OL backups have zero starts between them. I continue to believe they will keep at least one experienced guy. Collins has been awful, they have given up on the idea he can play tackle so in a straight swap of vet interior guy vs vet interior guy I lean to Clapp. Both may well end up cut if they can snag a better vet option off another roster. 

 

3. Kingsley Jonathan out. I'm not sure about this one. Still think he could make it because they like him. But he hasn't been great in pre-season and to keep an extra OL someone has to go. Jonathan is now down to DE6 in the rotation and that is a luxury spot in terms of roster construction so he is the most vulnerable. 

 

4. Matt Milano to designated return IR, Joe Andreessen in. Milano's bicep tear means he is headed to IR and given his experience and skill level I see no reason why the Bills wouldn't use one of their two pre-season designated to return slots on him. In his place they could keep a vet in Deion Jones or Nicholas Morrow but just looking at the way they have used guys in pre-season it looks like Andreessen has jumped those guys. He got the start with the 1st team on Saturday and is in pole position to take this spot. 

 

 

16 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Through 2 weeks of preseason I think this is how I would like to go, subject to change obviously

 

 

QB- Allen, Trubisky (or whoever they decide to pick up) (2)

RB- Cook, Davis, Johnson (3)

FB- Gilliam (1)

WR- Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Hollins, Shavers, Hamler (6)

TE- Kincaid, Knox, Morris, Davidson (4)

OL- Dawkins, Edwards, McGovern, Torrence, Brown, Van Pran, Anderson, Vandemark, Grable, Gouriage (10)

DE- Rousseau, Epenesa, Miller, Smoot, Solomon (5)

DT- Oliver, Jones, Johnson, Carter (4)

LB- Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, Morrow, Andreessen (5)

CB- Benford, Douglas, Johnson, Elam, Ingram, Hardy (6)

S- Rapp, Hamlin, Bishop, Lewis (4)

 

K- Bass

P- Martin

LS- Ferguson (3)

 

IR with opportunity to return - Matt Milano, Mike Edwards

 

You are missing Spector. He is making the team. 

Edited August 19 by GunnerBill

[GASabresIUFan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

3. Kingsley Jonathan out. I'm not sure about this one. Still think he could make it because they like him. But he hasn't been great in pre-season and to keep an extra OL someone has to go. Jonathan is now down to DE6 in the rotation and that is a luxury spot in terms of roster construction so he is the most vulnerable. 

You have Jonathan out, list 5 DE’s, but slot for 6.  Who is the 6th?

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

You have Jonathan out, list 5 DE’s, but slot for 6.  Who is the 6th?

 

Sorry the strike through had gone the wrong way. I'd counted for 5 down one from 6. 

[GASabresIUFan]

I also like Davidson over MVS. Conventional wisdom says no, but if you think of Kincaid more as a WR than TE, it’s easier to envision.  
 

Something like this.

TE (3) Knox, Morris, Davidson

TE/WR Hybrid - Kincaid

WR (4) Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Hollins 

 

The biggest issue is speed.  MVS brings deep speed.  Without MVS, only Samuel remains with that kind of speed.  My guess is Beane goes with a veteran deep threat (MVS) over a 4th TE, especially if he thinks he can get Davidson to the PS.  

Edited August 19 by GASabresIUFan

[BillsDad51]

Rochester D&C reports Javon Solomon left game with calf injury. Speculates team could red shirt him on IR. Have not seen any other reports on this injury.

[gonzo1105]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Thought I'd update my projection. My first go is here for those wanting a look. 

 

QB (2): Josh Allen, Mitch Trubisky

FB (1): Reggie Gilliam

RB (3): James Cook, Ray Davis, Ty Johnson

TE (34) Dalton Kincaid, Dawson Knox, Quintin Morris, Zach Davidson

WR (65) Keon Coleman, Curtis Samuel, Khalil Shakir, Mack Hollins, Marquez Valdez-Scantling, Tyrell Shavers

OL (910) Dion Dawkins, Connor McGovern, David Edwards, O'Cyrus Torrence, Spencer Brown, Ryan Van Demark, Alec Anderson, Sedrick Van Pran-Granger, Tylan Grable, Will Clapp La'el Collins**

Offense Total: 25

 

DT (4): Ed Oliver, DaQuan Jones, Austin Johnson, DeWayne Carter

DE (65) Greg Rousseau, AJ Epenesa, Von Miller, Dawuane Smoot, Kingsley Jonathan, Javon Solomon

LB (5): Matt Milano, Terrel Bernard, Dorian Williams, Baylon Spector, Edefuan Ulofoshio, Joe Andreessen

CB (6): Rasul Douglas, Christian Benford, Taron Johnson, Kaiir Elam, Ja'Marcus Ingram, Daequan Hardy

S (5): Taylor Rapp, Mike Edwards, Cole Bishop, Cam Lewis, Damar Hamlin

Defense Total: 25

 

ST (3): Tyler Bass (K), Sam Martin (P), Reid Ferguson (LS)

Special Teams Total: 3

 

Summary of changes:

1. Zach Davidson in, Tyrell Shavers out. I just don't see a 6th receiver who deserves to make the roster. To be honest I'm not sure I see a 5th receiver who deserves to make it, but if the neck is clear for MVS (and it seems to be) I think they are going to err on the side of caution and he will make the team as a vet outside option. The additional spot freed up by Shavers going to the practice squad is taken by Davidson. They are going to play a lot of 12 again I think and their tight end room looks better than their receiver room. If a 6th receiver makes it then watch out for Justin Shorter who got 1st team gunner reps on Saturday.

 

2. Tylan Grable and Will Clapp in, La'el Collins out. Tylan Grable has made himself too big of a risk for the practice squad. He has been the best 2nd stringer lineman through two games and has shown he can play right and left side. So I add him to make the OL group 10 deep. Then Clapp for Collins is a swapping out of one vet backup for another. The rest of the OL backups have zero starts between them. I continue to believe they will keep at least one experienced guy. Collins has been awful, they have given up on the idea he can play tackle so in a straight swap of vet interior guy vs vet interior guy I lean to Clapp. Both may well end up cut if they can snag a better vet option off another roster. 

 

3. Kingsley Jonathan out. I'm not sure about this one. Still think he could make it because they like him. But he hasn't been great in pre-season and to keep an extra OL someone has to go. Jonathan is now down to DE6 in the rotation and that is a luxury spot in terms of roster construction so he is the most vulnerable. 

 

4. Matt Milano to designated return IR, Joe Andreessen in. Milano's bicep tear means he is headed to IR and given his experience and skill level I see no reason why the Bills wouldn't use one of their two pre-season designated to return slots on him. In his place they could keep a vet in Deion Jones or Nicholas Morrow but just looking at the way they have used guys in pre-season it looks like Andreessen has jumped those guys. He got the start with the 1st team on Saturday and is in pole position to take this spot. 

 

 

 

You are missing Spector. He is making the team. 

Yea I think the LB cuts will be interesting. That was the one spot I was very unsettled on. When I wrote mine up I didn’t know MVS injury status. I put Hamler in for return protection for Hardy and the last spot was really the Morrow spot so if you swapped Spector for Morrow or kept 6 LBs I would completely understand 

[Matt_In_NH]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

That’s all they kept last year.  

So there is a way?  THe problem is most fans are so influenced by stats and fantasy football they dont see the challenge in filling out an entire 53 that gives them guys who can play all the special teams postitions.

[Cash]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sorry the strike through had gone the wrong way. I'd counted for 5 down one from 6. 

I’m with you on KJ. It’s hard to imagine him getting a roster spot over Solomon (if healthy), who’s younger and just started a cheap 4-year contract. The Bills kept KJ on the 53 all of last year, mostly inactive, because they were worried about losing him. No way they expose Solomon to waivers. 
 

I expect that Beane will try to deal KJ around cutdown time, because it’s hard to see the numbers working out to keep 6 DEs unless someone goes on IR. 

[MiltonWaddams]

11 minutes ago, Cash said:

I’m with you on KJ. It’s hard to imagine him getting a roster spot over Solomon (if healthy), who’s younger and just started a cheap 4-year contract. The Bills kept KJ on the 53 all of last year, mostly inactive, because they were worried about losing him. No way they expose Solomon to waivers. 
 

I expect that Beane will try to deal KJ around cutdown time, because it’s hard to see the numbers working out to keep 6 DEs unless someone goes on IR. 

It took me a while to determine that you were not talking about Hamler, but were talking about Kingsley Jonathan

[GASabresIUFan]

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

So there is a way?  THe problem is most fans are so influenced by stats and fantasy football they dont see the challenge in filling out an entire 53 that gives them guys who can play all the special teams postitions.

I’ve been a Bills fan all my life, but this is the first year I’ve been really following the roster creation.  I was fascinated by how Beane was going to extricate the Bills from cap hell and then build a quality team with 60 mill in dead cap. 
 

I’ve been wondering if we should sub-divide our 53 man roster to have a special category for ST primary players like Gilliam, Cam Lewis, Neal, Matekevich, Morris last season.  These guys played 15% or less on offense/defense while playing 70% or more of the ST snaps.  

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are 5 types of players on a roster

1) Starters 

2) Rotational players - who rotate in especially at WR, TE, DT and DE.

3) Backups who don’t play unless needed - usually OL

4) Backups who play on special teams - often LBs, S, CBs, WRs

5) Special teams specialists - LS, Punter, PK, KR, and the aforementioned guys like Gilliam etc…

 

Given the youth on this roster, I think we’ll see more rotational players than usual.  For example, I can see Williams and Deion Jones rotating at LB depending on whether it’s a running play and passing down.  

 

[Matt_In_NH]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I’ve been a Bills fan all my life, but this is the first year I’ve been really following the roster creation.  I was fascinated by how Beane was going to extricate the Bills from cap hell and then build a quality team with 60 mill in dead cap. 
 

I’ve been wondering if we should sub-divide our 53 man roster to have a special category for ST primary players like Gilliam, Cam Lewis, Neal, Matekevich, Morris last season.  These guys played 15% or less on offense/defense while playing 70% or more of the ST snaps.  

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are 5 types of players on a roster

1) Starters 

2) Rotational players - who rotate in especially at WR, TE, DT and DE.

3) Backups who don’t play unless needed - usually OL

4) Backups who play on special teams - often LBs, S, CBs, WRs

5) Special teams specialists - LS, Punter, PK, KR, and the aforementioned guys like Gilliam etc…

 

Given the youth on this roster, I think we’ll see more rotational players than usual.  For example, I can see Williams and Deion Jones rotating at LB depending on whether it’s a running play and passing down.  

 

Here is the thing, the NFL teams do exactly what you are talking about but there are no actual official position for Special teams gunner, it is often a WR who fills that role.  Fans, see WR next to a guys name and looks for a guy who is better at fantasy football at WR, they see no value in gunner, what that means, they just think you just need lots of "weapons", even if it is the 6th WR who has no prayer to get on the field if everyone is healthy, the thought of a 6th weapon is their porn.