John Elway admits Josh Allen was his biggest regret

[ToGoGo]

34 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

I have the fact I barely watch college football on my side ha ha. All I knew is that there were 4 QBs with hype: Mayfield, Rosen, Allen, Darnold. And the Bills traded to move up and take JA at #7, with 2 QBs gone already. So I was thrilled. And for some reason, I liked him right away when he came to the stage, his demeanor, his interactions with fans. So I was onboard from day 1 ha ha. Ignorance is bliss.

 

I couldn't understand the "we picked the wrong Josh" crowd that actually wanted Allen to fail to boost their fragile egos! As a fan, you can be mad at the GM  for the pick, but since JA was our QB, I was rooting 100% for him  to be great, period. He has been even better. His running and leadership have been pleasant surprises. 

Fragile egos is right. 

[Zerovoltz]

few things I want to touch on here -

 

1.  There are a couple posts here about Denver already having signed Keenum, and were set at QB.  That is CORRECT, but I want to point out that Elway made another error that led to the Keenum error before that...and demonstrates who one choice affects many others as you get on down the road.  Elway had opted to retain Vance Joseph at head coach and his staff.  He then basically gave Joseph and ultimatum to win or he'd be fired.  This bad decision was money based as Denver by that time was being run by a trust while a bunch of court challenges for control over the team by Pat Bowlens kids was ongoing.  

 

Given that Vance Joseph was in a win now situation, he wanted a veteran QB, and for drafted players to be win now, help me now, start now type guys.  That's why they signed Keenum and weren't in the QB market on draft day, and took Bradley Chubb, who was thought to be a day 1 impact starter at DE.  Even if Elway had taken Allen, the coaching staff wouldn't have gone near him..they would have had no interested or incentive to work on his development.

 

2.  Cleveland should be getting absolutely ROASTED about their handling of QB's lately.  In 2017...took Miles Garrett 1/1 while needing a QB, passing on Mahomes.  In same 2017 draft, traded out of 1/12....with Houston, who took DeShawn Watson...who Cleveland then traded for later, and paid a bad contract to.  In 2018...took Baker over Josh Allen.  Double bad becasue Baker would lead them to first playoff win in quite a while, then they trade him to Tampa so they can get Watson.  Baker goes on to be decent in Tampa, lead them to playoff win, and get nice extension in TB.....while ending up with Watson....and missing on Allen.  

 

That is about as bad as it gets.  

 

3.  I was at the 2018 draft, on the the stage floor when Allen was taken.  Poncho Billa and the Bills mafia there that day, enthusiastically embraced Allen the moment the pick was made and he came out on the stage.  I know this place melted down about "the wrong Josh" but at least the contingent in the house was supportive when it happened.  

 

.....I hope the Bills get some titles AND I also hope that when the time comes for hte Pegulas to need a successor, that it is NOT messy like the Broncos.  That mess led to alot of mistakes and alot of rot, that has led Denver to now being a favorite to land 1/1 in the draft.

 

And last....I was WAY WAY WAY WRONG about Josh Allen too.  I thought he'd be a bust.  I WANTED the Broncos to take him even though I knew by the draft they weren't going QB.  I laughed when the Bills traded up for him and thought it was a "Billsy" move.  How wrong I was.  

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 7/30/2024 at 1:28 PM, Gregg said:

 

The Chiefs would have won a Lombardi with Josh. Reid is a better HC then Sean and a genius on offense. As I mentioned in a previous post the Chiefs defense steps up in big spots. The Chiefs supporting cast around Mahomes plus coaching is just better than what Allen has. It's the main reason the score between Patrick and Josh is 3-0. 

I wish this board would stop glazing Andy Reid so hard. He’s been a HC for 24 years ! And just started winning. This is his 2nd team and he’s got the best QB in the league. People acting like Mahomes isn’t that dude who’s play style is more ‘off the script’ and is largely dependent on instincts and maneuvering the pocket. It is not Andy Reid’s system that makes Mahomes who he is. I am 1000% sure he would dominate on any team.
 

Sure, Reid schemes guys open for him, but that offense is run largely through 2 of the best ever at their respective positions. I want to see how the Chiefs do when either of those guys goes down. McDermott’s one huge gaff was the 13 seconds game, besides that, the Chiefs have been much luckier in the injury department come playoff time. Reid also 3 times the amount of experience than McDermott especially in big games. 
 

The Chiefs definitely have a better offensive supporting cast around Mahomes, but that could change this year w/ Kelce another year older, their WRs constant legal problems, and Worthy already dealing w/ injuries. I also think Buffalo fields their best defense in the McDermott era and will be much more superior than what KC has. 

[DCofNC]

On 7/30/2024 at 5:11 PM, Shaw66 said:

Oh, wow, I don't agree.  Yes, no amount of coaching would have made EJ into Josh, but I think in a different environment, EJ could have developed into a journeyman backup and even passable NFL starter.  EJ could have been Gino Smith in a better environment.

 

But I don't think for a minute that Josh could have been EJ.  I think there are very few circumstances under which Josh would have been a feared QB.   He is naturally a better thrower than all but maybe a dozen QBs in the history of the league, and he is naturally a better runner than all but maybe a half dozen QBs since the 80s, when passing became more important.  No matter how badly his rookie season might have gone, some serious coach would have gotten a hold of him.  There was no denying, from the very beginning, that Josh made plays.  

 

You want an example?  Steve Young.  In his second of two seasons at Tampa, the only season he was the full-time starter, his passer rating was 65.5.  The 49ers traded for him, even though they had Montana.  In part time duty for the next several years, he had passer ratings of 120, 72, 120, and 92.  Then they unloaded Montana, and as a starter Young's passer rating was over 100 in six of the next eight seasons.   The 49ers, and probably most of the rest league, knew that Young was better than he showed in Tampa.  (The Packers trading for Favre is another example.)

 

If Josh had statistical performances for two seasons like Manuel, but if he did the things he can do - running and passing, teams would have been beating down the Bills door to trade for him.  Josh was always going to be Josh, even though most people didn't recognize it when he was coming out of college.  

 

No coaches in the NFL could have done so poorly with Josh that the rest of the league would have given up on him.  

I disagree with you on EJ.  He was a liability at FSU and he couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat in the middle of the Atlantic.  He was an athlete who played QB and it carried him as far as it could.  He had no business being a 1st round pick and honestly, if he was ANY good, he could have done something after leaving Buffalo, but he just bombed out.  He never was NFL caliber.  That’s no slight, he made it to high level D-1, but that’s it.

[Sierra Foothills]

On 7/30/2024 at 4:16 AM, DCofNC said:

It does…. But we traded the picks that became Mahomes and Jefferson.. so yeah..

 

Call me crazy but I'm just fine with "losing" Mahomes and getting Josh as a consolation prize.

 

And what does Jefferson (Diggs) have to do with this discussion?

 

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I wish this board would stop glazing Andy Reid so hard. He’s been a HC for 24 years ! And just started winning. This is his 2nd team and he’s got the best QB in the league. People acting like Mahomes isn’t that dude who’s play style is more ‘off the script’ and is largely dependent on instincts and maneuvering the pocket. It is not Andy Reid’s system that makes Mahomes who he is. I am 1000% sure he would dominate on any team.
 

Sure, Reid schemes guys open for him, but that offense is run largely through 2 of the best ever at their respective positions. I want to see how the Chiefs do when either of those guys goes down. McDermott’s one huge gaff was the 13 seconds game, besides that, the Chiefs have been much luckier in the injury department come playoff time. Reid also 3 times the amount of experience than McDermott especially in big games. 
 

The Chiefs definitely have a better offensive supporting cast around Mahomes, but that could change this year w/ Kelce another year older, their WRs constant legal problems, and Worthy already dealing w/ injuries. I also think Buffalo fields their best defense in the McDermott era and will be much more superior than what KC has. 

 

Andy Reid had a .583 winning percentage in 14 seasons coaching the Eagles. His teams made the playoffs in 9 of those 14 seasons and he took his teams to 5 NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.

 

He was probably a Hall of Fame coach before he went to Kansas City.

 

[Shaw66]

13 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I disagree with you on EJ.  He was a liability at FSU and he couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat in the middle of the Atlantic.  He was an athlete who played QB and it carried him as far as it could.  He had no business being a 1st round pick and honestly, if he was ANY good, he could have done something after leaving Buffalo, but he just bombed out.  He never was NFL caliber.  That’s no slight, he made it to high level D-1, but that’s it.

Yeah, I won't argue with that.  I just think his ceilong may have Gino Smith.  I agree that even that may have been unobtainable.  

 

 

[Billy Claude]

On 7/31/2024 at 12:31 AM, Zerovoltz said:

 

 

2.  Cleveland should be getting absolutely ROASTED about their handling of QB's lately.  In 2017...took Miles Garrett 1/1 while needing a QB, passing on Mahomes.  In same 2017 draft, traded out of 1/12....with Houston, who took DeShawn Watson...who Cleveland then traded for later, and paid a bad contract to.  In 2018...took Baker over Josh Allen.  Double bad becasue Baker would lead them to first playoff win in quite a while, then they trade him to Tampa so they can get Watson.  Baker goes on to be decent in Tampa, lead them to playoff win, and get nice extension in TB.....while ending up with Watson....and missing on Allen.  

 

That is about as bad as it gets.  

 

 

Nothing lately about it. It was just continuing a long time Browns tradition of bad QB picks:

 

2005 Charlie Frye (3rd)

2007 Brady Quinn (1st)

2010 Colt McCoy (3rd)

2012 Brandon Weeden (1st)

2014 Johnny Manziel (1st)

2016 Cody Kessler (3rd)

2017 DeShone Kizer (2nd)

 

One can argue that Charlie Frye was the best of the bunch.  Evidence that just picking a QB every couple of years doesn't work.

 

The Browns drafting record from 2011 to 2016 was probably the worst in the history of the NFL.  Except for Bitonio (2nd round 2014), every high pick they had in that stretch was pretty much a bust.

 

Edited August 1 by Billy Claude

[Billy Claude]

55 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I won't argue with that.  I just think his ceilong may have Gino Smith.  I agree that even that may have been unobtainable.  

 

 

 

Wasn't there a photo of the Cowboys draft board showing that they had EJ Manuel as a 4th rounder and ?  Wasn't there also a story (later denied) that Jimbo Fisher was told people that Manuel did not have the tools to be an NFL QB.   I thought that most of the pundits had Geno Smith as the top QB and was surprised that the Bills took Manuel. 

 

Pretty much a WTF pick from day one which was fairly common with the Bills in those days.

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Wasn't there a photo of the Cowboys draft board showing that they had EJ Manuel as a 4th rounder and ?  Wasn't there also a story (later denied) that Jimbo Fisher was told people that Manuel did not have the tools to be an NFL QB.   I thought that most of the pundits had Geno Smith as the top QB and was surprised that the Bills took Manuel. 

 

Pretty much a WTF pick from day one which was fairly common with the Bills in those days.

I’ll say this, ANY time you are trading back because you know the guy you “want” will be there, you should just go another direction entirely, ESPECIALLY if it’s a QB.   I’m a little more optimistic about Coleman because I think he was falling bc of his speed and the traits available with others made it likely they could get him.  Doesn’t mean it’s a good pick, just LESS stupid than taking a QB nobody wants.

[DCofNC]

17 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Call me crazy but I'm just fine with "losing" Mahomes and getting Josh as a consolation prize.

 

And what does Jefferson (Diggs) have to do with this discussion?

 

 

Andy Reid had a .583 winning percentage in 14 seasons coaching the Eagles. His teams made the playoffs in 9 of those 14 seasons and he took his teams to 5 NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.

 

He was probably a Hall of Fame coach before he went to Kansas City.

 

 

Oh you are crazy, nobody of nobody would trade Mahomes for JA and White. I love Josh, but he’s #2 (or 3,4,5 depending on your opinion).   The Jefferson reference was to the person saying it’s “nice to be on this side of” the regret.   The Bills may be pumped to have Allen, but it’s hard to ignore they traded the best players at both QB and WR in the league.

 

As somebody I would like to root for, Josh, all day.  Mahomes I find hard to like, but if he were a Bill, Id be rocking a Kermit head to the tailgate, so it is what it is.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Oh you are crazy, nobody of nobody would trade Mahomes for JA and White. I love Josh, but he’s #2 (or 3,4,5 depending on your opinion).   The Jefferson reference was to the person saying it’s “nice to be on this side of” the regret.   The Bills may be pumped to have Allen, but it’s hard to ignore they traded the best players at both QB and WR in the league.

 

As somebody I would like to root for, Josh, all day.  Mahomes I find hard to like, but if he were a Bill, Id be rocking a Kermit head to the tailgate, so it is what it is.

 

Yes Josh is a close 2nd to Mahomes IMO.

 

It doesn't invalidate the consensus that Mahomes has been a better QB than Josh up till now but I believe that many people would be surprised if you polled Bills fans about which QB they'd rather have. I'd rather have Josh and I'm guessing that I'm far from alone as far as fan voting goes.

 

Yes I'd love to have Jefferson over Diggs but that's a separate discussion.

 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Yes Josh is a close 2nd to Mahomes IMO.

 

It doesn't invalidate the consensus that Mahomes has been a better QB than Josh up till now but I believe that many people would be surprised if you polled Bills fans about which QB they'd rather have. I'd rather have Josh and I'm guessing that I'm far from alone as far as fan voting goes.

 

Yes I'd love to have Jefferson over Diggs but that's a separate discussion.

And I think the vast majority would rather have Reid and Spagnuolo as coaches

[DCofNC]

On 8/1/2024 at 4:46 PM, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Yes Josh is a close 2nd to Mahomes IMO.

 

It doesn't invalidate the consensus that Mahomes has been a better QB than Josh up till now but I believe that many people would be surprised if you polled Bills fans about which QB they'd rather have. I'd rather have Josh and I'm guessing that I'm far from alone as far as fan voting goes.

 

Yes I'd love to have Jefferson over Diggs but that's a separate discussion.

 

yeah, polling biased fans is going to get a biased answer.  I prefer Josh all day long, but I’d rather have the Championships over anything.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

yeah, polling biased fans is going to get a biased answer.  I prefer Josh all day long, but I’d rather have the Championships over anything.

Check back with me when the dust settles on their careers but right now I wouldn’t change a thing.