Training Camp 7/29 - First day of pads

[julian]

24 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I'm really curious if things are finally clicking for him or if it was a matter of the DB coaching change.

He was in the position coach’s doghouse, combine that with Benford playing extremely well and here we are.

 

 It’s going to be difficult to keep Elam off the field this year, as good as Benford is, Elam’s physical upside is tremendous and if he puts it all together over the next month… look out.

[Augie]

There will be a lot of ups and downs as camp goes along. The defense looks good, so the offense sucks, etc. I’d like to hear encouraging reports on both sides of the ball, but if we can get to the regular season healthy then I have at least one thing to be thrilled about. 

 

 

.

Edited July 29 by Augie

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

3 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Hollins was brought in because he is an excellent blocker for an WR and plays well on special teams. He will probably make the roster, but won’t be putting up big volume stats as a receiver.

If you listen to what guys are saying on WGR, don’t be surprised if this guy is borderline starting.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

9 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

He had to wait until day 5 for even a whiff of challenging plays for Keon. He had his predetermined point ready to go lol.

 

And its like - he struggled in some drills per some guy on twitter and 3/4 passes went incomplete.  OK, so... thats a coaching opportunity.  What did you do wrong, how can you avoid getting caught like that? Etc. 

 

It was like the people tallying the stats between EJ, Tyrod, and Cassel.  This isn't how you judge someone in a practice setting.  

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[Don Otreply]

Just want to say thanks to all y’all for the posts so I can keep up with what’s going on at TC, you guys are the best 👍

[BillsVet]

57 minutes ago, Logic said:

Respectfully, I don't buy this notion.

The Chiefs, for instance, have been bombs away in camp. They talked in the offseason about bringing the deep ball back to their offense, and true to their word, they've been winging it all camp long to Hollywood, Worthy, et al.

On the contrary, I think the Bills have very purposefully been trying to make life easier for Josh Allen (who leads the NFL the past four years in TD passes of 10+ yards) and give him easier answers. I think that in year one of Joe Brady, the emphasis will be on getting his more horizontal, matchup based offense installed and getting the offense ready to combat the heavy dose of two-deep coverage shells they'll be seeing. I suspect that after this season, we'll see an emphasis on bringing more of a deep element back to the offense, and the offseason moves will reflect this desire.

To put it simply, I think -- between the exodus of our star WR, the youth movement and diversification of the WR corps, the move to a bigger OL, and the emphasis on horizontal ball movement -- that the Bills are once again a year behind the Chiefs. I don't expect to see a particularly robust downfield element to the Bills passing game this year, at least compared to what we've seen in recent years. That's not to say they can't/won't be a good offense, but simply that I think they're more concerned with making their short and intermediate passing game more lethal, and that it may come at the expense of more frequent and effective downfield passing.

 

Subterfuge is a beautiful thing when executed so as to confuse.  

 

But they're not making life easier for Josh by, if true, dialing in the routes.  Warren Sharp posted on X that Josh Allen had a 31.8% incompletion percentage (EDIT: due to inaccurate passes) on throws over 10 yards.  In the 2023 regular season, only 3 QBs with a minimum of 200 attempts were better: Cousins, Jake Browning, and Patrick Mahomes.   

 

If Josh is making those throws and they overhaul the WR group, I'm not seeing them dialing routes closer to the LOS as a good option.  I'm seeing them forcing a square peg into a round hole and expecting it to work, but that's why we had an 80+ thread on what the WR group is now.  

 

Then again, McD has never been a proponent of analytics which, in fairness, many HC's aren't.

 

And I'm going to disagree on the "diversification" of the WR group...they're all pretty much slot guys in different body types.  And especially not guys who can be feature options many here assume will work because they're all of a certain quality.     

 

 

Edited July 29 by BillsVet

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, ALLinALLEN said:

The competition is ongoing, its not over. Beaten out doesnt imply that it's over. It's VERY early but I would right now say Hamlin has beaten out Bishop if he's getting 1st team D reps. But I've gotten a ton of bad reactions in here for this take so I guess agree to disagree. 

 

Still incorrect.  He has not beaten anyone out, why you insist on doubling and tripling down on this is confusing.  Do you seem to think a rookie is defaulted the starting job upon being drafted?  And therefore if he does not reflect that starting role on day 1 of camp then he has somehow "lost" his job and has been "beaten" out and must "regain" his job during camp?  Because that is exactly what you are describing and its incorrect if so. 

 

But hey, phrase however you want for yourself, no biggie.  But literally neither Hamlin, Edwards, or Bishop have beaten anyone out nor have they lost anything to anyone.  It is an open competition and they are all getting reps with the 1's to see who makes a claim to be the starter as camp and preseason continues.  Hamlin started getting reps with the 1's most likely because he was the only one who knew the defense too...he has excelled with those reps and become part of the mix in competition, but he hasn't beaten anyone out at all.  And in fact, 2 or maybe even all 3 will likely see time with the 1's in the preseason.

 

More importantly, there is no reason for McD to even rush Bishop into a starting role come week 1 given someone like Edwards, Hamlin, or maybe even Hyde (door is not closed on a final season return for him if he clears medicals) can open the season until Bishop gets more time to master the system given the importance of the S role in McD's defense.  So I would not even panic if he isn't starting week 1, in fact, I don't expect him to and think its more likely he is in for specific packages and as the season goes on he will potentially be in position to take over the starting role if he shows he is ready. 

Edited July 29 by Alphadawg7

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Still incorrect.  He has not beaten anyone out, why you insist on doubling and tripling down on this is confusing.  Do you seem to think a rookie is defaulted the starting job upon being drafted?  And therefore if he does not reflect that starting role on day 1 of camp then he has somehow "lost" his job and has been "beaten" out and must "regain" his job during camp?  Because that is exactly what you are describing and its incorrect if so. 

 

But hey, phrase however you want for yourself, no biggie.  But the literally neither Hamlin, Edwards, or Bishop beaten anyone out nor have they lost anything to anyone.  They are all getting reps with the 1's to see who makes a claim to be the starter as camp and preseason continues.  And in fact, 2 or maybe even all 3 will likely see time with the 1's in the preseason.

 

More importantly, there is no reason for McD to even rush Bishop into a starting role come week 1 given someone like Edwards, Hamlin, or maybe even Hyde (door is not closed on a final season return for him if he clears medicals) can open the season until Bishop gets more time to master the system given the importance of the S role in McD's defense.  So I would not even panic if he isn't starting week 1, in fact, I don't expect him to and think its more likely he is in for specific packages and as the season goes on he will potentially be in position to take over the starting role if he shows he is ready. 

 

Yeah the whole "beaten out" thing is wild. It's day 5 lol

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

Temper that info with the knowledge that Edwards went out with a hammy yesterday, and McDermott described him as "week to week"

8 minutes ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

 

Yeah the whole "beaten out" thing is wild. It's day 5 lol

 

Right, I mean, Bishop was apparently out with the 1's for the initial walk through.  They seem to be alternating, with the caveat that Edwards is out so it's a 2 man rotation not a 3 man right now.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Hollins seems like such a chill guy, weird to think of him fighting 

 

I think he's a chill guy with the pads and cleats off.  Once they go on:  Savage

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Brand J said:

I wonder if he came in with an entitled mindset, like a roster spot was guaranteed. I do remember him saying he helped Rodgers and Mahomes to MVPs and SB wins. It’s his wake up call, let’s see how he responds.

 

Yeah, that made my ears prick up.  Like Dude, you fancy yourself a bit; better put your head down and grind

[Malazan]

Beane had a vision for the WRs:

 

Be Tall and Catch the Ball

[Mark Vader]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I hope that Ty Johnson will be alright. I also want to see if Darrynton Evans gets a real shot as well.

[Beck Water]

 

Did we have this one? 

I believe that's Christian Benford getting toasted by Keon and Casey Toohill chasing Josh around the backfield like a bulldozer chasing a cowdozer.

I couldn't see who it was that Toohill must have beaten like a drum.

[noacls]

4 hours ago, ALLinALLEN said:

I just dont love the situation we're in...wish we had a better plan for Hyde/Poyer leaving when we clearly saw that coming for 2 seasons. 

 

We are expecting 2 of:

Rapp 

Hamlin

Mike Edwards 

A rookie 2nd rounder 

 

To replace 2 all-pro caliber players.

 

I'm not expecting them to replace 2-all pro players that easily, but since it's been a cornerstone of the McD defense and given how important a role S has in his system, I'm a little concerned where we stand there right now. 

I'm worried about a 2nd round pick that can't beat out Demar Hamlin for 1st team reps. It's just an observation, wondered if anyone else felt the same and they dont....noted. 

Hyde and Poyer have not been All Pro caliber players in years. 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Did we have this one? 

I believe that's Christian Benford getting toasted by Keon and Casey Toohill chasing Josh around the backfield like a bulldozer chasing a cowdozer.

I couldn't see who it was that Toohill must have beaten like a drum.

 

It's a designed waggle and Toohill blew the contain I think

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

It's a designed waggle and Toohill blew the contain I think

 

So the bulldozer was supposed to contain the cowdozer?  

 

Good Luck with that

[SoonerBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Let me say a couple things.  First, there's an interesting discussion of the safeties going on here.  Thanks to everyone.  

 

I'm looking at it optimistically.  I'm counting on McDermott - in fact the safeties this season is a good way to see if McDermott is a master.  This is what Belichick did in his defense throughout the Patriots' success - get really solid but not superstar athletes and coach them to execute the coaches' plan.   I think that's who Hyde and Poyer were - excellent football players but not stars, and McDermott valued them because they really invested in the plan - all of the details of execution of a complicated scheme.  

 

In terms of talent, I'd guess Rapp and Bishop compare favorably.  Strictly physically, which pair would you prefer?  I'd give the nod to Poyer and Hyde, because I think they physically  a little tougher, but I'm okay with the swap.   And I wouldn't be writing off Rapp for lack of discipline or whatever, or Hamlin off for lack of size.  I think you have to be around McDermott for a while, experience how his defense is working.  It takes time.  So, I'm expecting more from Rapp this season, because now he has a full season under his belt.  And I haven't been counting on Hamlin, but this discussion changed my mind about him.  Give him some time.  2022 was essentially his first season, and I thought he struggled.   And I don't count 2023 at all.  I think 2023 was like an extended training camp for Hamlin, because that's what he needed to recover - it was in some ways like he was going through his rookie season all over again.   In other words, I don't think we can assume much of anything from Hamlin based on 2022.  He could very well be better than any of us think.   

 

It certainly is possible, of course, that Rapp doesn't drink the Kool-Aid or whatever, that Hamlin simply just isn't big enough or good enough to do it, that Bishop is slow to develop, that Edwards - whose out now - doesn't rise to the level necessary to be an answer.  Any or all of those could happen.  Still, I think the chances are pretty good that there's one good (good like Hyde and Poyer) safety in that group, and the chances are okay that there are two.  

Agreed good sir. I am more interested on how the Safeties are playing the last 6 weeks or so of the season. We need to be healthy and cooking with gas in December and Through the playoffs/Superbowl.  Everyone should expect some growing pains across the board for the first half of the season in regards to the team as a whole.