AlBUNDY4TDS Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said: The Boxers are not trans. Which athletes competing are? Doesn't matter enough to me to look it up. Should an "woman" athlete with one y chromosome compete women without one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 7 hours ago, SCBills said: The entire discourse has been around her XY chromosomes and what that entails. I somewhat feel bad for her, but I also don’t know what the right answer is in terms of competition. This isn’t akin to Michael Phelps and his genetic advantages as a man vs other men. Imane literally has a different genetic makeup from the XX women she’s fighting. I get that you know the details. I've seen enough on social media that I don't think most do. She has a *****. A lot of people would say she's a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said: If you have the Y chromosome you should not be able to compete in a women sport. I appreciate what you are saying, and agree this is different than a trans person, but Y chromosome generally means someone has higher muscle mass. From the study I had linked: ”Detailed evidence is presented here for the first time that genes for stature (and possibly other genes) on the Y chromosome are responsible for the increased frequency of 46,XY disorder of sex development (46,XY DSD) among elite female athletes identified by eligibility tests. In many cases, androgens are non-functional or, alternatively, absent and therefore tes- tosterone cannot be responsible for their athletic success. Genetic variation has a major role in the selection of individuals for training and success in competition; how- ever, this variation is not grounds for determining who should compete in athletic events. There is no convincing evidence to support the view that hyperandrogenism is associated with performance advantage in female athletes.” 19 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: I get that you know the details. I've seen enough on social media that I don't think most do. She has a *****. A lot of people would say she's a woman. Suddenly they believe a man can have a *****. Maybe they’re just becoming progressive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 12 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: From the study I had linked: ”Detailed evidence is presented here for the first time that genes for stature (and possibly other genes) on the Y chromosome are responsible for the increased frequency of 46,XY disorder of sex development (46,XY DSD) among elite female athletes identified by eligibility tests. In many cases, androgens are non-functional or, alternatively, absent and therefore tes- tosterone cannot be responsible for their athletic success. Genetic variation has a major role in the selection of individuals for training and success in competition; how- ever, this variation is not grounds for determining who should compete in athletic events. There is no convincing evidence to support the view that hyperandrogenism is associated with performance advantage in female athletes.” Suddenly they believe a man can have a *****. Maybe they’re just becoming progressive? Again, how do we know she has one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) The most important part of this entire episode is that it highlights the fact that gender is not always clear. Can we stop now with "Can you define a woman" bs? The answer is "It's sometimes difficult". Edited August 3 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 hour ago, Doc said: Again, how do we know she has one? Considering she is from a conservative country where being LGBT is illegal, was raised as a girl from birth, has said it was tough to get support for training growing up because her father didn’t like the idea of women fighting, and the only evidence that something was different was the word of the head of a corrupt organization who has refused to provide any evidence to back his claim, I think it’s pretty reasonable to conclude that she has one. In fact, considering that even if the head of the IBA is telling the truth, it doesn’t preclude her from having one, I think it’s actually fairly unreasonable to assume she doesn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: The most important part of this entire episode is that it highlights the fact that gender is not always clear. Can we stop now with "Can you define a woman" bs? The answer is "It's sometimes difficult". Generally speaking no it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 20 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: Generally speaking no it's not. Agreed. Generally. But the world is also full of unusuals. We can't just ignore that they exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted August 4 Author Share Posted August 4 Are there some humans who truly have genetic disorders that makes sex ambiguous? Yes. Are these conditions exceedingly rare? Yes. Are the number of men trying to identify as women rising exponentially in recent years and well above what the rate of known genetic disorders are? Yes. Do most people not give a single ***** if dudes want to pretend to be a woman and go about their lives? Yes. Do most people start to give a ***** if people with these delusions start demanding that others participate and affirm their delusions? Yes. Do people really start to give a ***** when the trans cult demands that others indulge their delusions that don't coincide with reality while also demanding that XY chromosome humans be allowed to dominate XX human sports? YES. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr-Bills Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 28 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: Generally speaking no it's not. You really are on another planet. also a tempest in a teapot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 18 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Agreed. Generally. But the world is also full of unusuals. We can't just ignore that they exist. Who wants to ignore them. Is that what you think this is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 14 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Are these conditions exceedingly rare? Yes. Wrong. 1 in 2500 female births. I've seen several patients with this condition (and this is just one condition causing ambiguous gender) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6290843/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 44 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Considering she is from a conservative country where being LGBT is illegal, was raised as a girl from birth, has said it was tough to get support for training growing up because her father didn’t like the idea of women fighting, and the only evidence that something was different was the word of the head of a corrupt organization who has refused to provide any evidence to back his claim, I think it’s pretty reasonable to conclude that she has one. In fact, considering that even if the head of the IBA is telling the truth, it doesn’t preclude her from having one, I think it’s actually fairly unreasonable to assume she doesn’t. As I said, a medical examination with blood test and ultrasound would solve the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 8 minutes ago, Doc said: As I said, a medical examination with blood test and ultrasound would solve the problem. What should be the threshold for mandating that women be subjected to medical and genital checks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Doc said: As I said, a medical examination with blood test and ultrasound would solve the problem. U/S? Why? to look at the uterus/ovaries? So post hysterectomy patients aren't female? n XX with breast development but no ovarian or uterine development? Were you also given a medical designation of official arbiter of gender? Edited August 4 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: What should be the threshold for mandating that women be subjected to medical and genital checks? Olympic athletes already are subject to medical tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Who wants to ignore them. Is that what you think this is? It matters. Marsha Blackburn wants to ignore them or just pretend they don't exist https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2022/03/24/marsha-blackburn-asked-ketanji-jackson-define-woman-science/7152439001/ Edited August 4 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 11 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: What should be the threshold for mandating that women be subjected to medical and genital checks? If there is ongoing controversy about an athlete. 9 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: U/S? Why? to look at the uterus/ovaries? So post hysterectomy patients aren't female? n XX with breast development but no ovarian or uterine development? Were you also given a medical designation of official arbiter of gender? Obviously if they've had a hysterectomy it's different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 1 minute ago, Doc said: If there is ongoing controversy about an athlete. Obviously if they've had a hysterectomy it's different. So wait. Post hysterectomy pt have no uterus or ovaries but breasts and *****. Some females have the same characteristics from birth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 7 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: So wait. Post hysterectomy pt have no uterus or ovaries but breasts and *****. Some females have the same characteristics from birth... That's why I said medical exam which means history and physical and blood (genetic, testosterone level) test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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