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Well I wasn't planning to watch the Olympics anyway...

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Pokebball Veteran

Pokebball

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 12:50 AM, Joe Ferguson forever said:

It matters.  Marsha Blackburn wants to ignore them or just pretend they don't exist

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2022/03/24/marsha-blackburn-asked-ketanji-jackson-define-woman-science/7152439001/

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I'm not in Blackburn's head so I'll not speak for her. Neither side is against allowing those that want to compete, to  compete. One side believes women's competition is the appropriate place for these XY anomalies (allow me the flexibility to use that term, but I'm open to whatever you or any others want to use) to compete. The other side believes doing so presents an unfair advantage to XX athletes. We shouldn't conflate the desire to protect women's athletes and women's sports as being any more than just that.

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ChiGoose Veteran

ChiGoose

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 12:58 AM, Doc said:

 

If there is ongoing controversy about an athlete.

 

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Cool. So anytime somebody is unhappy that they lost, they can just accuse their opponent of being a man and if enough people online fall for it, they can force a genital check on their opponent?

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Joe Ferguson forever All Pro

Joe Ferguson forever

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 8/4/2024 at 1:16 AM, Pokebball said:

I'm not in Blackburn's head so I'll not speak for her. Neither side is against allowing those that want to compete, to  compete. One side believes women's competition is the appropriate place for these XY anomalies (allow me the flexibility to use that term, but I'm open to whatever you or any others want to use) to compete. The other side believes doing so presents an unfair advantage to XX athletes. We shouldn't conflate the desire to protect women's athletes and women's sports as being any more than just that.

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c'mon.  Blackburn's trope was well worn by R's.  Not just sports but restrooms etc.  It's apparently an issue of vital importance to you all.

  On 8/4/2024 at 1:10 AM, Doc said:

 

That's why I said medical exam which means history and physical and blood (genetic, testosterone level) test.

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Cool.  So no ultrasound.

The 4X100 mixed relay run was incredible.  watch if haven't seen.

Edited by Joe Ferguson forever
Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 1:19 AM, ChiGoose said:

Cool. So anytime somebody is unhappy that they lost, they can just accuse their opponent of being a man and if enough people online fall for it, they can force a genital check on their opponent?

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One complaint by a competitor?  No.  Repeated complaints?  Yes.  The number of complainants can be negotiable. 

 

And you're acting like this is onerous.  These athletes get poked and prodded all the time.

 

  On 8/4/2024 at 1:20 AM, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Cool.  So no ultrasound.

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No, that was implied since I mentioned it originally.  And why not?  It's non-invasive.

Orlando Buffalo All Pro

Orlando Buffalo

Posted
Posted
  On 8/3/2024 at 9:47 PM, ChiGoose said:


 

From the study I had linked:

 

”Detailed evidence is presented here for the first time that genes for stature (and possibly other genes) on the Y chromosome are responsible for the increased frequency of 46,XY disorder of sex development (46,XY DSD) among elite female athletes identified by eligibility tests. In many cases, androgens are non-functional or, alternatively, absent and therefore tes- tosterone cannot be responsible for their athletic success. Genetic variation has a major role in the selection of individuals for training and success in competition; how- ever, this variation is not grounds for determining who should compete in athletic events. There is no convincing evidence to support the view that hyperandrogenism is associated with performance advantage in female athletes.”

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Are you arguing that a Y chromosome is not an indicator of higher muscle mass? Or are you simply arguing that a situation that has almost no research does not show a compelling amount of data? This literally might be your dumbest post ever. 

ChiGoose Veteran

ChiGoose

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 1:27 AM, Doc said:

 

One complaint by a competitor?  No.  Repeated complaints?  Yes.  The number of complainants can be negotiable. 

 

And you're acting like this is onerous.  These athletes get poked and prodded all the time.

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Well, I suppose we should encourage Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and other Silicon Valley types to use the power of their platforms to artificially amplify any complaints against anyone who beats an American woman athlete so they have to get tested. Would be a good way to intimidate our opponents. 
 

Should this be only for the Olympics or should we do it for other competitions as well?

ChiGoose Veteran

ChiGoose

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 1:42 AM, Orlando Buffalo said:

Are you arguing that a Y chromosome is not an indicator of higher muscle mass? Or are you simply arguing that a situation that has almost no research does not show a compelling amount of data? This literally might be your dumbest post ever. 

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I’m arguing that it’s obviously not clear cut and the Y chromosome in women with some conditions doesn’t act the same way that it does in men and doesn’t necessarily provide a competitive advantage. 
 

If your concern is muscle mass, you can test for that. Same with testosterone. Why not test directly for the advantage you are concerned with?

Orlando Buffalo All Pro

Orlando Buffalo

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 1:47 AM, ChiGoose said:


I’m arguing that it’s obviously not clear cut and the Y chromosome in women with some conditions doesn’t act the same way that it does in men and doesn’t necessarily provide a competitive advantage. 
 

If your concern is muscle mass, you can test for that. Same with testosterone. Why not test directly for the advantage you are concerned with?

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Your argument is that since some men are not muscular we should allow them to compete with women, but only weak women? Why are you pretending this is difficult, Y chromosome means you compete with men. This line is not arbitrary, and it is fair to all, your line is stupid and would likely remove the Williams sisters from the women's side because you are a stupid coward.

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ChiGoose Veteran

ChiGoose

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 2:18 AM, Orlando Buffalo said:

Your argument is that since some men are not muscular we should allow them to compete with women, but only weak women? Why are you pretending this is difficult, Y chromosome means you compete with men. This line is not arbitrary, and it is fair to all, your line is stupid and would likely remove the Williams sisters from the women's side because you are a stupid coward.

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So you think that someone who is born a woman, with female genitalia, should have to compete against men if they have a Y chromosome even if their testosterone and muscle mass is in line with typical females?

Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 1:43 AM, ChiGoose said:

Well, I suppose we should encourage Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and other Silicon Valley types to use the power of their platforms to artificially amplify any complaints against anyone who beats an American woman athlete so they have to get tested. Would be a good way to intimidate our opponents. 
 

Should this be only for the Olympics or should we do it for other competitions as well?

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I specifically said other athletes' complaints.  These types of allegations happen so seldomly. 

 

And I'd say competitions from middle school on up.  Until they create transgender leagues.

 

  On 8/4/2024 at 1:46 AM, Joe Ferguson forever said:

hmmm...because it won't aid in determining gender?

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It's another piece of the puzzle by seeing whether or not there are male or female internal structures.

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ChiGoose Veteran

ChiGoose

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 3:04 AM, Doc said:

 

I specifically said other athletes' complaints.  These types of allegations happen so seldomly. 

 

And I'd say competitions from middle school on up.  Until they create transgender leagues..

 

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So if you have a middle school daughter, you’d be fine with her getting genital checks if she wanted to play sports?

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L Ron Burgundy Veteran

L Ron Burgundy

Posted
Posted
  On 8/3/2024 at 9:47 PM, ChiGoose said:


 

From the study I had linked:

 

”Detailed evidence is presented here for the first time that genes for stature (and possibly other genes) on the Y chromosome are responsible for the increased frequency of 46,XY disorder of sex development (46,XY DSD) among elite female athletes identified by eligibility tests. In many cases, androgens are non-functional or, alternatively, absent and therefore tes- tosterone cannot be responsible for their athletic success. Genetic variation has a major role in the selection of individuals for training and success in competition; how- ever, this variation is not grounds for determining who should compete in athletic events. There is no convincing evidence to support the view that hyperandrogenism is associated with performance advantage in female athletes.”


Suddenly they believe a man can have a *****. Maybe they’re just becoming progressive?

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I mean, they clearly don't see they moved the goalposts across the planet.

Orlando Buffalo All Pro

Orlando Buffalo

Posted
Posted
  On 8/4/2024 at 2:35 AM, ChiGoose said:


So you think that someone who is born a woman, with female genitalia, should have to compete against men if they have a Y chromosome even if their testosterone and muscle mass is in line with typical females?

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Are you actually stating that you don't believe a Y chromosome makes you a man? 

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