boater Posted July 27 Posted July 27 On 7/25/2024 at 10:27 AM, Logic said: In all seriousness, I do believe that the future of offensive football is "positionless" to a certain extent. To call Christian McCaffrey a running back does not accurately describe all that he does. To call prime Deebo Samuel a wide receiver does not accurately describe all that he does. To call Dalton Kincaid a tight end does not accurately describe all that he does. You get the picture. I think Brady plans to be "Mr Matchup". He collected a pile of skill players with different skillsets, and -- based on the camp report from day one -- plans to employ a multitude of motions and shifts to get certain offensive players matched up against certain defensive players in isolation or against certain coverages, and expects Josh to simply find and exploit the most advantageous matchup. That may sound like an obvious, "duh" sort of statement, but it's not exactly how things worked under Ken Dorsey or Brian Daboll. Belichick loved to strategize to get certain players into certain situations. It was his emphasis during game week practices. Having Brady follow that style sounds good to me. Quote
SirAndrew Posted July 27 Posted July 27 (edited) On 7/26/2024 at 3:06 PM, RoyBatty is alive said: I disagree. Listen to the Taron Johnson interview how he loves the challenge of never knowing what type or player/who he will be defending, if Brady can pull it off, it will make of Offense very hard to cover while improving our defense in practice. Similar to what Belichek was also striving for on Defense, make as many players interchangeable as possible. Will Brady be able to pull it off? It will be difficult, could be a tremendous success or massive failure. One of the reasons why, i believe, that Buillls are always targeting smart players/team captains, people willing to put in the work. I agree with what you’re saying, and I appreciate the concept. I just wonder if Brady needs more experience before he pulls off this system “without positions”. Having an elite playmaker outside QB really helps a young OC. My skepticism has to do with the fact that I saw conservative old school offense from Brady last season. The league is headed toward offensive players with less defined roles, but we were so Josh oriented under Brady, I have yet to see what that looks from him. Edited July 27 by SirAndrew 1 Quote
NoSaint Posted July 28 Posted July 28 (edited) On 7/26/2024 at 4:00 PM, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: I have a feeling that someone is going to be a jerk and take this out of context but I do think this is where the league is going. Outside of QB, how many elite offensive players are just the most prototypical versions of their positions? How many Justin Jeffersons and CeeDee Lambs are there? Think about who have been the breakout stars in recent years? Cooper Kupp and Puka Nacua were what happens when you take possession receivers and make them your offense's focal point. CMC and Deebo Samuel blur the line between a RB and WR. Travis Kelce is a WR in a TE's body. prototypical WRs? tyreek, diggs, Wilson, lamb, Adams, brown, Jefferson, chase, Moore, Evans, aiyuk, Amon ra, DK, waddle… the rookies this year are very prototypical not sure how deep you want to go with impact WRs…. Nico, Pittman, Devonta, Higgins, Hopkins etc… Edited July 28 by NoSaint 1 Quote
KOKBILLS Posted July 28 Posted July 28 2 hours ago, SirAndrew said: I agree with what you’re saying, and I appreciate the concept. I just wonder if Brady needs more experience before he pulls off this system “without positions”. Having an elite playmaker outside QB really helps a young OC. My skepticism has to do with the fact that I saw conservative old school offense from Brady last season. The league is headed toward offensive players with less defined roles, but we were so Josh oriented under Brady, I have yet to see what that looks from him. I really like the concepts approach... it's exciting to me, especially with the current personnel. I think it has a great chance to maximize the abilities at WR, RB and TE... While the Bills may not have an elite playmaker outside of Josh, at least they have Josh to get good playmakers the ball all over the field. So the play matters a lot. Getting that 1st option open... I think this year will be ultra dependent on Josh putting the football in the right place, to the right player. I think this will be a lot more on Josh than Brady. And that has it's own risks.. But boy if it works... Look out! 2 1 Quote
Since1981 Posted July 28 Posted July 28 (edited) On 7/25/2024 at 10:15 AM, Dunkirk Donski said: I’m sure this will age well I’m with you. Wait until OC over thinks and puts RB and TE in entirely wrong places what does work and makes sense is when one config is on the field and can switch but have to have the right skills Edited July 28 by Since1981 Quote
Green Lightning Posted July 28 Posted July 28 Damn, if we only had Patrick DeMarco to go deep now.. 2 Quote
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 28 Posted July 28 Bad quote but he’s just saying all the receivers will play everywhere. Quote
nedboy7 Posted July 28 Posted July 28 Talk about reading into a quote, taking it out of context and shittin your diaper. 1 Quote
hondo in seattle Posted July 28 Posted July 28 14 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Diggs, yes I disagree. His separation rate the last 8 games did go down. But it was still higher than Samuel. Gunner, just curious - where are you getting this information from? As I recall, Samuel had an average separation of 3.3 yards last year. Diggs was only 2.8 yards. I'm pretty sure I remember that correctly but I'll have to find the source. In any case we agree that he struggled to get open the second half of the season. (And the second of the previous season). Quote
GunnerBill Posted July 28 Posted July 28 3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: Gunner, just curious - where are you getting this information from? As I recall, Samuel had an average separation of 3.3 yards last year. Diggs was only 2.8 yards. I'm pretty sure I remember that correctly but I'll have to find the source. In any case we agree that he struggled to get open the second half of the season. (And the second of the previous season). It was on the ESPN thing the other day that had Samuel as only the 136th best separator in the league last year. 1 Quote
syhuang Posted July 28 Posted July 28 (edited) 6 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: Gunner, just curious - where are you getting this information from? As I recall, Samuel had an average separation of 3.3 yards last year. Diggs was only 2.8 yards. I'm pretty sure I remember that correctly but I'll have to find the source. In any case we agree that he struggled to get open the second half of the season. (And the second of the previous season). source: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation This is correct. According to NFL Next Gen stats, Samuel had an average separation of 3.3 yards while Diggs was only 2.8 last season. Furthermore, it's something consistently that Diggs' separation rate is between 2.5~3.0 yards in last five seasons while Samuel is consistently half yard or more higher than Diggs in separation. And Yes, Davis' separation rate is in the same range as Diggs and lower than Samuel in last 5 seasons. Edited July 28 by syhuang 2 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted July 28 Posted July 28 23 minutes ago, syhuang said: source: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation This is correct. According to NFL Next Gen stats, Samuel had an average separation of 3.3 yards while Diggs was only 2.8 last season. Furthermore, it's something consistently that Diggs' separation rate is between 2.5~3.0 yards in last five seasons while Samuel is consistently half yard or more higher than Diggs in separation. And Yes, Davis' separation rate is in the same range as Diggs and lower than Samuel in last 5 seasons. Yea there seems to be a high degree of disagreement among the various metrics sites. Quote
syhuang Posted July 28 Posted July 28 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea there seems to be a high degree of disagreement among the various metrics sites. Would be interesting to see any source regarding Samuel has worse separation than Digg too. Quote
GunnerBill Posted July 28 Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, syhuang said: Would be interesting to see any source regarding Samuel has worse separation than Digg too. It was posted here the other day. Quote
syhuang Posted July 28 Posted July 28 (edited) 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It was posted here the other day. it's okay, please update back if you're able to find it especially the one regarding Samuel being only the 136th best separator in the league last year. Edited July 28 by syhuang Quote
GunnerBill Posted July 28 Posted July 28 6 minutes ago, syhuang said: it's okay, please update back if you're able to find it especially the one regarding Samuel being only the 136th best separator in the league last year. It commented on it so will be findable somewhere in my posts, I'm out and about all day today so won't have time to try and dig out. Quote
syhuang Posted July 28 Posted July 28 Just now, GunnerBill said: It commented on it so will be findable somewhere in my posts, I'm out and about all day today so won't have time to try and dig out. No problem. If you eventually find the source about Samuel being 136th best separator last season, please share it. If not, it's okay. It's curious to see which source has him being this low at only 136th in separation while Next Gen Stats has him at 3.3 yards which is in the upper half among eligible WRs. Quote
GunnerBill Posted July 28 Posted July 28 1 hour ago, syhuang said: No problem. If you eventually find the source about Samuel being 136th best separator last season, please share it. If not, it's okay. It's curious to see which source has him being this low at only 136th in separation while Next Gen Stats has him at 3.3 yards which is in the upper half among eligible WRs. https://espnanalytics.com/rtm I don't fully understand what the ratings are based on. But for "Open" he is 136th. Quote
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