The Bills "Don't have positions" - Joe Brady

[Mikey152]

20 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks.  Interesting stuff.  

 

I agree about Coleman's skill set.  Having him roaming all over the field from the slot could make him a nightmare for defenses to deal with. 

 

Frankly, last season I had hoped we'd see more of that from Kincaid, but his role seemed more limited.  If the Bills can get more from him this season, then I like your vision of those two guys running out of the slot.   Fact is, those two lined up together almost anywhere along the line is a problem for defenses.  

I don't think it matters much where they line up for the passing game. Payton had big guys inside less for passing and more for running...they liked to run power out of spread and WR blocked, so big guys near the ball and 12 personnel helped that.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

I can't think of any super bowl winning team in the modern era that didn't have defined roles on offense.  We should be more worried than usual.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

6 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Who carries the Chiefs. We have a top 2 QB. That’s how it is.  Enjoy it. 

They have 3 SB wins so they can reset like they have. Getting rid of Diggs with no plan in place is reckless, what’s the reason not to go get a legit #1 WR? This makes 0 sense, we couldn’t beat the Chiefs with a legit WR and now we’re supposed to with castoffs?

[Shaw66]

59 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

I think there is a difference between being a balanced/complimentary offense and a coaches philosophy on how you do that.

 

Using NO as an example (that's where he worked with Payton...it was his first job and not that long ago), it was this combination of spread pass with power run. Lots of bunch/condensed sets, motion, two TE, empty backfield. They used things like personnel groups, formation, motion and play sequence to attack defenses. 

 

In a nutshell, you can either change the route and keep the target to exploit a coverage, or you can keep the route and change the target. One requires a strong QB/WR connection, but spreads out the responsibility. The other places a lot more on the QBs plate, but spreads out the touches.

 

I think Daboll installed the former to help develop Josh, KD kept it...Brady is a bigger believer in the 2nd one (which was also the NO philosophy). Part of the reason our offense felt better with Brady even if it didn't actually do better is because it was more decisive. However, we had really only installed basic formations and packages, so his menu was pretty limited. If you're attacking with formation and sequence, you needs lots of formation and plays.

 

 

That is great!  Thanks very much.  And I think, yes, all signs pont to the latter and making Josh take that syep in yerms of decision making.  

 

Think about Tom Brady.  At yhe snap he always seemed to know where to go with ball.  He didn't care who it was; he simply went where the open man would be which was dictated by formatuin and defense.  

 

If your QB can do it, it's take what they give you, and they're always giving you something.

[nedboy7]

28 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

They have 3 SB wins so they can reset like they have. Getting rid of Diggs with no plan in place is reckless, what’s the reason not to go get a legit #1 WR? This makes 0 sense, we couldn’t beat the Chiefs with a legit WR and now we’re supposed to with castoffs?

 

The comment was about Josh supposedly carrying the Bills.  Would I like a top 10 WR?  Sure.  But Diggs was not that and they did pretty good last half of the season with what they had and I think we have upgraded.   We'll see what they do.  

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I have a feeling that someone is going to be a jerk and take this out of context but I do think this is where the league is going. Outside of QB, how many elite offensive players are just the most prototypical versions of their positions? How many Justin Jeffersons and CeeDee Lambs are there?

 

Think about who have been the breakout stars in recent years? Cooper Kupp and Puka Nacua were what happens when you take possession receivers and make them your offense's focal point. CMC and Deebo Samuel blur the line between a RB and WR. Travis Kelce is a WR in a TE's body.

 

[Mikey152]

12 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I have a feeling that someone is going to be a jerk and take this out of context but I do think this is where the league is going. Outside of QB, how many elite offensive players are just the most prototypical versions of their positions? How many Justin Jeffersons and CeeDee Lambs are there?

 

Think about who have been the breakout stars in recent years? Cooper Kupp and Puka Nacua were what happens when you take possession receivers and make them your offense's focal point. CMC and Deebo Samuel blur the line between a RB and WR. Travis Kelce is a WR in a TE's body.

 

Honestly? I think it is already there on both sides of the football. It started happening when passing rules were changed to heavily favor the offense. All of a sudden, every offense has some kind of spread concept and all kinds of guys are lining up everywhere. Defense, in turn, got got lighter and more rangey (just look at MLB now), allowing them to switch and disguise more. Now offenses are countering back with 2 TE looks (ultimate flex guys) and Big slots to run more effectively and dominate the middle that isn't as scary anymore.

 

Before you know it, there will be no rules. Punch and counterpunch. Hence why having a deep team vs a top heavy one at the skill positions is attractive...deep teams are inherently more flexible.

 

Basketball pretty much has the same thing going on...Centers that shoot and guards that attack the rim and defend, and that was pretty much because of rule changes, too.

Edited July 26 by Mikey152

[machine gun kelly]

On 7/25/2024 at 10:20 AM, Warcodered said:

Everyone being able to attack from anywhere sounds like a massive headache for a DC, if you can get everyone to be able to do it.

War, that’s kind of the point and I agree.  SF is known for positionless players.  It’s an evolvement of a winning philosophy.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

3 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

The comment was about Josh supposedly carrying the Bills.  Would I like a top 10 WR?  Sure.  But Diggs was not that and they did pretty good last half of the season with what they had and I think we have upgraded.   We'll see what they do.  

Diggs was 7th in receptions, 13th in yards, top 10 in TD, 6th in targets.... Diggs was most certainly that. 

Edited July 27 by BuffaloBillsGospel2014

[Nephilim17]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the "conventional" combination is a bit of a holdover from the Daboll era. He liked that balance. Brady is gonna run some more spread and we saw some of that last year. 

 

But I am not sure I buy that that this group will separate better. I think the opposite.

I bet Samuel will get more separation than either Diggs or Davis, our 1 and 2 from last year. Shakir will get separation. And so will Kincaid.

The big question for me is Coleman.

Do you disagree with my point that Samuel will separate more than Diggs and Davis?

Edited July 27 by Nephilim17

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Do you disagree with my point that Samuel will separate more than Diggs and Davis?

 

Diggs, yes I disagree. His separation rate the last 8 games did go down. But it was still higher than Samuel.

[Chaos]

9 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

I bet Samuel will get more separation than either Diggs or Davis, our 1 and 2 from last year.

What is this based on?

[Nephilim17]

4 hours ago, Chaos said:

What is this based on?

1. Curtis Samuel looks like a more explosive player to me.
2. Diggs' explosiveness looks in decline to me.

3. Samuel turns 28 in a couple weeks; Diggs turns 31 in November. WRs lose a step or two around 30 or 31.

I don't have advanced metrics but my eyeball test says Samuel is the more explosive player at this point in their careers.

Here's are some of his 2022/23 season highlights. At times you can really see him move. And he now has Josh Allen throwing to him, which can only help.
 

 

[nedboy7]

18 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

Diggs was 7th in receptions, 13th in yards, top 10 in TD, 6th in targets.... Diggs was most certainly that. 

 

That is all correct.  He had 5 100 yard games in the first 6.  Then he had 6 games under 50 yards.  So I get your argument.  But the second half of the season hopefully translates well to this season. 

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

 

That is all correct.  He had 5 100 yard games in the first 6.  Then he had 6 games under 50 yards.  So I get your argument.  But the second half of the season hopefully translates well to this season. 

Samuel did not have a great second half of season either. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

On 7/26/2024 at 4:05 PM, Jauronimo said:

I can't think of any super bowl winning team in the modern era that didn't have defined roles on offense.  We should be more worried than usual.

I’m sharpening my pitchfork you better believe. Sleepy beane and his no positions. Probably took a nap and forgot to get players

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

I’m sharpening my pitchfork you better believe. Sleepy beane and his no positions. Probably took a nap and forgot to get players

I’m sure Beane is shaking in his boots.

 

Brady wants to have an offense that makes it hard for defenses to predict where guys will be in the passing game.  Not a bad idea.

[GoBills808]

32 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I’m sure Beane is shaking in his boots.

 

Brady wants to have an offense that makes it hard for defenses to predict where guys will be in the passing game.  Not a bad idea.

Do you believe defenses attempt to 'predict where guys will be in the passing game'? Like is this your understanding of how defense is played

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

36 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I’m sure Beane is shaking in his boots.

 

Brady wants to have an offense that makes it hard for defenses to predict where guys will be in the passing game.  Not a bad idea.

I agree man sorry 😅

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Do you believe defenses attempt to 'predict where guys will be in the passing game'? Like is this your understanding of how defense is played

Yes.  For example if you just take a guy like a Diggs was and put him outside it’s easier to put coverage on him there.  When you have a lot of motion, different sets, etc.  it’s not as easy.