Anonymous NFL Exec: "Josh Allen is one of the more overrated players in the NFL"

[Shaw66]

I think there's truth here from both the unnamed exec and Alphadawg:

 

Quote

“One of the more overrated players in the NFL,” a veteran NFL executive said. “Immense talent but he makes a lot of mistakes. He’s underdeveloped at winning at the line of scrimmage, tends to lock on to targets, more of a thrower than precision passer, forces throws into traffic.”  [the exec]

 

You want to have some critiques...fair, all players have things they can improve.  But the overrated nonsense is comically stupid...which is why they were too much of a wuss to put their name on it.   [the dawg]

I've been saying this for along time about Allen - he isn't an elite game manager.  He isn't great at pre- and post-snap reads.  He makes some poor decisions with the ball.  I think it's all true, but it's all relative.  As the exec says, he has "immense talent," and that talent overcomes a lot of mistakes.  A guy with average NFL talent who makes decisions like Allen is on the bench, but Allen is so incredibly talented that he is an excellent QB despite the mistakes.  

 

I've said for years, and I'll say it here:  Allen is Elway.  Elway compared to Montana makes the point.  There was no comparison in terms of talent, but Montana was masterful as a field general.  Then Elway mastered the mental game, and he was brilliant.  I think Allen is further along than Elway, and I actually think he is a better thrower (and better runner) than Elway, but Allen still needs to develop his decision making.  Mahomes is ahead of him in that category, and Mahomes is a good enough thrower that his mental game makes him superior.  But I think Allen is coming for him. 

 

All of this discussion about Allen is, I believe, beside the point.  Allen is either great right now or awfully close.  The Bills can win with him exactly as he is, if the defense will step up in the big play department.  

[Doc]

36 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think there's truth here from both the unnamed exec and Alphadawg:

 

I've been saying this for along time about Allen - he isn't an elite game manager.  He isn't great at pre- and post-snap reads.  He makes some poor decisions with the ball.  I think it's all true, but it's all relative.  As the exec says, he has "immense talent," and that talent overcomes a lot of mistakes.  A guy with average NFL talent who makes decisions like Allen is on the bench, but Allen is so incredibly talented that he is an excellent QB despite the mistakes.  

 

I've said for years, and I'll say it here:  Allen is Elway.  Elway compared to Montana makes the point.  There was no comparison in terms of talent, but Montana was masterful as a field general.  Then Elway mastered the mental game, and he was brilliant.  I think Allen is further along than Elway, and I actually think he is a better thrower (and better runner) than Elway, but Allen still needs to develop his decision making.  Mahomes is ahead of him in that category, and Mahomes is a good enough thrower that his mental game makes him superior.  But I think Allen is coming for him. 

 

All of this discussion about Allen is, I believe, beside the point.  Allen is either great right now or awfully close.  The Bills can win with him exactly as he is, if the defense will step up in the big play department.  

 

Or as in Elway's case, there's a coaching change...

[frostbitmic]

This probably comes from a GM paying Tua or a 50 year old AAron Rodgers.

[PBF81]

I wouldn't trade Allen for any QB in the league including Mahomes.  

 

Having said that, he does have his weaknesses.  Overrated is not a word that I would use to describe him however.  He is the offense here.  

 

To start, he overlooks receivers open in the flats and in shorter areas of the field in favor of the deeper stuff.  This year's WR cadre and McD's ball-control (aka "complimentary football") approach will either force him to improve that area of his game or it will reflect in his stats.  

 

The building of the current team does not play to his strengths.  It's going to be a huge year for him, Brady, and McD in that regard, a referendum on the McD way in terms of offense.  

 

Keep in mind as well, we're told by some that he may still even have lingering issues with his elbow injury on the shorter more finesse throws.  We'll see I suppose.  

 

But last season's 60% completion rate and 85 rating under Brady doesn't bode well.  

 

He has a ton more potential, which is scary, that isn't going to be unlocked on McD's watch.  

 

 

Edited July 19 by PBF81

[Alphadawg7]

38 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think there's truth here from both the unnamed exec and Alphadawg:

 

I've been saying this for along time about Allen - he isn't an elite game manager.  He isn't great at pre- and post-snap reads.  He makes some poor decisions with the ball.  I think it's all true, but it's all relative.  As the exec says, he has "immense talent," and that talent overcomes a lot of mistakes.  A guy with average NFL talent who makes decisions like Allen is on the bench, but Allen is so incredibly talented that he is an excellent QB despite the mistakes.  

 

I've said for years, and I'll say it here:  Allen is Elway.  Elway compared to Montana makes the point.  There was no comparison in terms of talent, but Montana was masterful as a field general.  Then Elway mastered the mental game, and he was brilliant.  I think Allen is further along than Elway, and I actually think he is a better thrower (and better runner) than Elway, but Allen still needs to develop his decision making.  Mahomes is ahead of him in that category, and Mahomes is a good enough thrower that his mental game makes him superior.  But I think Allen is coming for him. 

 

All of this discussion about Allen is, I believe, beside the point.  Allen is either great right now or awfully close.  The Bills can win with him exactly as he is, if the defense will step up in the big play department.  

 

Yeah, its not like Allen is infallible, all players have strengths and weaknesses...but Allens strengths GROSSLY outweigh his weaknesses to the point calling overrated, let alone one of the more overrated players in the NFL is beyond stupidity.  There is not another QB in the NFL not named Mahomes that people would take over Allen right now.

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Keep in mind as well, we're told by some that he may still even have lingering issues with his elbow injury on the shorter more finesse throws.  We'll see I suppose.  

 

Really?  I have not heard anything about this, so must have missed this chatter.  Can you fill me in more on this or share any additional info?  Thanks in advance

 

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

But last season's 60% completion rate and 85 rating under Brady doesn't bode well.  

 

 

Keep in mind, there is context not showing up there too. 

• Brady took over week 11 and had to coach out of someone else's system
• Drops were an issue with Diggs and Davis and there were games where Diggs and Davis were invisible as our starting WR's
• The SOS was much higher over Brady's 7 games than Dorsey's 10
• Every game was practically a high-pressure playoff game where he had to avoid mistakes and not try and force as many throws, so I felt like he threw the ball away more (To be clear that is an opinion, I didn't look to see if there was any stat on that, just what I felt when watching the games)

Edited July 19 by Alphadawg7

[muppy]

here comes Muppy with two cliches

 

opinions are like *******'s  everyone has one

 

AND if that is this writers honest assessment. NO SKIN OFF MY NOSE

 

 

lol #17 doesn't need me to defend him. For those folks who want to berate him I honestly don't think he gives that many ****'s what guys like that think. Or else he may humbly agree or just let the comment slide. 

 

It's nothing to get all bothered over. 

Edited July 19 by muppy

[Thrivefourfive]

Somebody posted a comparison graph underneath one of those Twitter links in the OP. Mahomes and Brady. It’s nice to be in that debate. For the Allen column.. WE WOULD HAVE DIED TO HAVE A QB THAT GREAT FOR A CAREER IF YOU OFFERED US THAT 7 YEARS AGO. JA17 is still getting better.

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Or as in Elway's case, there's a coaching change...

That's right.  In Elway's case, he had Reeves as HC for several years, then Wade Phillips, and then he won two Super Bowls with Shanahan.  I don't think that means that what's necessary is a head coaching change as much as it means getting the right kind of offensive coaching, which could mean the coordinator.  Tom Brady, for example, had a defensive head coach and the right offensive coordinator.   

 

In Denver, the offensive coordinators under Reeves included Mike Shanahan, who was there for 85-87 and 91.  They didn't get along, and Reeves fired him.  Also Chan Gailey for a year.  Finally, the Broncos figured out the wrong guy was fired, and they made Shanahan the head coach and won two Super Bowls.  

 

So, I agree the Bills need the right coach for Allen to take the final steps to all-round greatness, but that doesn't mean McDermott has to go.  It means he has to get the right OC.   However, sooner or later, if he keeps getting the wrong OC, then McD will have to go. 

[Thrivefourfive]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Really?  I have not heard anything about this, so must have missed this chatter.  Can you fill me in more on this or share any additional info?  Thanks in advance

 

 

Keep in mind, there is context not showing up there too. 

• Brady took over week 11 and had to coach out of someone else's system
• Drops were an issue with Diggs and Davis and there were games where Diggs and Davis were invisible as our starting WR's
• The SOS was much higher over Brady's 7 games than Dorsey's 10
• Every game was practically a high-pressure playoff game where he had to avoid mistakes and not try and force as many throws, so I felt like he threw the ball away more (To be clear that is an opinion, I didn't look to see if there was any stat on that, just what I felt when watching the games)

Oh, and he won ‘em all. So give me the wins, @PBF81 can keep the stats 😊

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, its not like Allen is infallible, all players have strengths and weaknesses...but Allens strengths GROSSLY outweigh his weaknesses to the point calling overrated, let alone one of the more overrated players in the NFL is beyond stupidity.  There is not another QB in the NFL not named Mahomes that people would take over Allen right now.

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree.  And perhaps the most amazing thing is that anyone with a brain can see that Allen still has upside.   How crazy is that?   Allen almost certainly won't win six Super Bowls (although anything is possible), but if he takes another step or two and stays healthy, he will legitimately be in the G.O.A.T. discussion.

[Free Speech]

I think this "executive" can be easily narrowed down to four teams whose QB situation has been disastrous. They whiffed (or perhaps in Cleveland/Mayfield's case, mishandled) and they know it. 

 

1 Cleveland Browns Baker Mayfield 

2 New York Giants Saquon Barkley

3 New York Jets Sam Darnold 

4 Cleveland Browns Denzel Ward 

5 Denver Broncos Bradley Chubb 

 

My bet would be on Gettelman, who basically f*$ked up twice in the top 10 in two consecutive years.  

 

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Keep in mind, there is context not showing up there too. 

• Brady took over week 11 and had to coach out of someone else's system
• Drops were an issue with Diggs and Davis and there were games where Diggs and Davis were invisible as our starting WR's
• The SOS was much higher over Brady's 7 games than Dorsey's 10
• Every game was practically a high-pressure playoff game where he had to avoid mistakes and not try and force as many throws, so I felt like he threw the ball away more (To be clear that is an opinion, I didn't look to see if there was any stat on that, just what I felt when watching the games)

Well, it's the same narrative as a year ago.  Last year, it was "Dorsey was learning the ropes as a rookie coordinator, blah, blah, blah."  Turned out, Dorsey didn't seem to have learned much at all. 

 

So, this year it's Brady.  I actually buy a lot of what you say about how things went for him 2023.  2024 is when we find out what he has.  I'm confident, but we won't know until November or beyond. 

[Mark Vader]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

I am firmly in the “Josh Allen is a top 3 QB” camp. 
 

But I also believe that he could be closer to the best in the NFL if he could keep his head on for an entire season. 
 

I think he lacks maturity and mental strength. My only knocks on him since day one. 
 

That level of maturity and mental toughness is what separates Mahomes from Allen. 
 

Mahomes matured more quickly than Allen. 
 

Hence the rings. 

Playing in a system run by a coach who knows how to plan an offense centered around a quarterback and is one of the best offensive minds in the league helps a lot too.

[MPL]

So, Nick Wright is an "NFL Exec" now?

[PBF81]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Really?  I have not heard anything about this, so must have missed this chatter.  Can you fill me in more on this or share any additional info?  Thanks in advance

 

 

Keep in mind, there is context not showing up there too. 

• Brady took over week 11 and had to coach out of someone else's system
• Drops were an issue with Diggs and Davis and there were games where Diggs and Davis were invisible as our starting WR's
• The SOS was much higher over Brady's 7 games than Dorsey's 10
• Every game was practically a high-pressure playoff game where he had to avoid mistakes and not try and force as many throws, so I felt like he threw the ball away more (To be clear that is an opinion, I didn't look to see if there was any stat on that, just what I felt when watching the games)

 

As to the first, again, some have said that, I don't make it a point to bookmark things that I do not agree with.  It's out there in places.  It's not a majority opinion nor did I say that it was.  

 

As to the second part, ... excuses.   

 

To your bullet points:  On one hand we went 6-1 because of Brady.  OTOH he was in Dorsey's system.  Quite the conundrum there.  

 

On the second, did you actually look at the numbers here?  Clearly not.  Diggs had four drops on both watches.  Davis, whose drops were the lowest % of his career last year and well within the range of average, had 3 under Dorsey and 0 under Brady.  Either way, you're suggesting that Allen's plummeting to 85 rating and 60% was due to a drop or two?  Really?  

 

To your third, that's simply not true.  The average per-game passing D rankings were nearly identical from first 10 to last 7.  Both played divisional teams once.  I've addressed that statistically many times here.  

 

The fourth is what it is.  

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Oh, and he won ‘em all. So give me the wins, @PBF81 can keep the stats 😊

 

Well, if Allen finishes the season with an 85.5 rating and 60% complete and the 24 passing TDs that he projected to in his regular season games under Brady, don't count on winning too many games.  

 

Otherwise, you're really crediting us winning games on offensive scoring outputs of 24, 20, 20, and 14 for four of those 6 wins then? 

Let's do this, suppose we take those scoring totals over an entire season.  How many games do you think we'd win if four each of our games we scored 24, eight more 20, and four more 14?  

 

It's rhetorical, simply throwing that out there.   

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, it's the same narrative as a year ago.  Last year, it was "Dorsey was learning the ropes as a rookie coordinator, blah, blah, blah."  Turned out, Dorsey didn't seem to have learned much at all. 

 

So, this year it's Brady.  I actually buy a lot of what you say about how things went for him 2023.  2024 is when we find out what he has.  I'm confident, but we won't know until November or beyond. 

I don’t disagree that we won’t know until we see this season, and really won’t know later in the season. 
 

Im not going to get too high or low on the offense early either.  
 

One, if we come out hot…well that is great and all, but means little when teams don’t have a lot of tape on this offense.  How the offense fares once teams have the film to game plan against it and how Brady adjusts will be the key to how this offense goes later in the season and playoffs.  
 

Two, if we come out slow…well there are a lot of new parts and a new offense, Allen’s third to learn in 3 years and kind of 4th if you count adjusting to Brady for last part of the year last year.  So it may not click right away and we may need to have some patience before they start to gel and find their rhythm and chemistry.  
 

So regardless to how the offense looks early, you are right in saying we won’t probably have a more confident understanding and picture of what it really is until later in the season like November

[hondo in seattle]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I am surprised I had not heard about this from a few days ago and I don't see it on the main page, so not sure if its been shared here.  To call him not only overrated, but one of the MORE overrated players in the NFL goes beyond stupid.  

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/7/15/24199160/nfl-exec-considers-bills-qb-josh-allen-overrated-despite-espn-top-3-rank

 

“One of the more overrated players in the NFL,” a veteran NFL executive said. “Immense talent but he makes a lot of mistakes. He’s underdeveloped at winning at the line of scrimmage, tends to lock on to targets, more of a thrower than precision passer, forces throws into traffic.”

 

You want to have some critiques...fair, all players have things they can improve.  But the overrated nonsense is comically stupid...which is why they were too much of a wuss to put their name on it. 

 

I love it though...just more fuel for the beast Josh Allen!

 

Almost everyone in sports media came to his defense (except Nick Wright who I wont even bother to post here).  Here are just a few of those clips where they talked about what an absurd statement this is:

 

 

 

 

 

Alpha, I posted the offending quote about Josh being overrated Monday in the "Is Josh Allen the best dual-threat QB ever" thread - not that it really matters.

 

It is interesting that intelligent football observers have such divergent opinions on Josh.   And kinda cool that some of them have come to Josh's defense.  

 

Though, maybe the unnamed exec who knocked Josh was the Bears Senior Director of Housekeeping and Janitorial who doesn't actually watch, or even like, football.  Not everyone is going to board the Josh train and I don't care.  I just hope that train takes us to the Super Bowl.   I'll enjoy that ride immensely no matter who else on the train with me.  

[Don Otreply]

Anonymous football fan says anonymous NFL executive is overrated…, 

[MJS]

25 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's right.  In Elway's case, he had Reeves as HC for several years, then Wade Phillips, and then he won two Super Bowls with Shanahan.  I don't think that means that what's necessary is a head coaching change as much as it means getting the right kind of offensive coaching, which could mean the coordinator.  Tom Brady, for example, had a defensive head coach and the right offensive coordinator.   

 

In Denver, the offensive coordinators under Reeves included Mike Shanahan, who was there for 85-87 and 91.  They didn't get along, and Reeves fired him.  Also Chan Gailey for a year.  Finally, the Broncos figured out the wrong guy was fired, and they made Shanahan the head coach and won two Super Bowls.  

 

So, I agree the Bills need the right coach for Allen to take the final steps to all-round greatness, but that doesn't mean McDermott has to go.  It means he has to get the right OC.   However, sooner or later, if he keeps getting the wrong OC, then McD will have to go. 

I agree with all of this. I am generally a McDermott defender, not because I think he is the greatest coach ever, but because there are just some idiotic opinions about him and hate from some Bills fans who want to see him gone. I think that is foolish.

 

But, like you said, eventually the Bills will need to move on and try someone else if McDermott can't make it happen and if the team keeps getting eliminated in the playoffs by allowing Mahomes to have his greatest career games. Mahomes is good, but he has been much better against the Bills in the playoffs than he usually is. McDermott needs to find a way to stop that. Maybe the Chiefs will beat us, but it should be a struggle for their offense, at least.

 

Sack him. Hit him. Hurry him. Force some turnovers. Those things shouldn't be impossible for us in the playoffs with Mahomes. We find a way to do it in the regular season. Injuries has been a big part of it, but you need to find a way.