FireChans Posted July 24 Posted July 24 14 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/two-metrics-prove-buffalo-qb-josh-allen-nfl-best-clutch-rv3 Theres one article ^ that shows he's the most clutch ranked QB the last 3 years combined. The 4th quarter clutch stat is listed in there as well And Joe Marino listed the blown lead stat on his podcast last week, I can get it for you if you really want the receipt Still outrageous argument? Josh Allen has really good numbers in the 4th Q. Cool article that has nothing to do with your dubious “facts.” 7 hours ago, BananaB said: bull#### It’s 100% true. I can post you the data if you’d like. Quote
BillsFan130 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Josh Allen has really good numbers in the 4th Q. Cool article that has nothing to do with your dubious “facts.” It’s 100% true. I can post you the data if you’d like. Huh?? Your argument is he isn't as clutch as some of us say. This article literally shows he's the most clutch QB in the NFL😂🤦♂️ Sometimes you got to know when to cut your losses sir 1 Quote
FireChans Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, BillsFan130 said: Huh?? Your argument is he isn't as clutch as some of us say. This article literally shows he's the most clutch QB in the NFL😂🤦♂️ Sometimes you got to know when to cut your losses sir 7 hours ago, FireChans said: I think Bills fans at large would be shocked to find out Allen fails to win games far more often than McD loses them. The way the speak about both parties is exhibit A. McD is a choke artist and Allen is Mr. Clutch. Lmao. 1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said: Do you know that Josh Allen Via analytics was the most clutch QB in the 4th quarter by FAR? In his career, he has lost 7 games where he left the field with the lead in the 4th quarter. To put in perspective, Tom Brady had 4 or 5 losses and played almost 25 years. Manning had like 3 or 4. And Mahomes has like 2. (don't quote me on the exact numbers from Brady, manning, Mahomes, but give or take around that) Translation: The defence let's him down in clutch moments and it's pretty obvious if you watch the bills which I assume you do What is your rebuttal to those facts/stats? I linked the convo so you can follow along better. I never said Allen has 4th Q garbage numbers. I said he lost more games by failing to get us a lead in the 4th more than McD lost a lead. It’s a fact. It’s great he has a nice QBR in the fourth. It doesn’t change the statement above. Back to the sandbox. Quote
BillsFan130 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 (edited) 22 minutes ago, FireChans said: I linked the convo so you can follow along better. I never said Allen has 4th Q garbage numbers. I said he lost more games by failing to get us a lead in the 4th more than McD lost a lead. It’s a fact. It’s great he has a nice QBR in the fourth. It doesn’t change the statement above. Back to the sandbox. So your argument is that Josh doesn't give the bills a lead in the 4th? Do you seriously watch the bills? They had 6 losses this year- Jets game- On Josh in the 4th Jags game- was unreal in the 4th and got back to back TDs but D couldn't stop them- Didn't have a chance to give them a lead NE game- left the field with the lead under 2:00 but mcds D couldn't stop Mac jones Cinci game- TD late in the 4th, D couldn't stop to give him another chance to take lead. Denver game- Left the field with the lead, D couldn't hold under 2 mins Eagles game- Left the field TWICE with the lead, D couldn't stop end of regulation or OT So 3 of the 6 losses, Josh Allen left the field by giving them the lead , not to mention the game winning drives. In total he gave them the lead 7 times in the 4th quarter last year. So dude I ask again, do you actually watch the bills? Do you understand how much of an anomaly that is, to lose 3 games in one season when your team has the lead under 2 minutes to play?? Edited July 24 by BillsFan130 2 Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 34 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/two-metrics-prove-buffalo-qb-josh-allen-nfl-best-clutch-rv3 Theres one article ^ that shows he's the most clutch ranked QB the last 3 years combined. The 4th quarter clutch stat is listed in there as well And Joe Marino listed the blown lead stat on his podcast last week, I can get it for you if you really want the receipt Still outrageous argument? You have to forgive @FireChans He thinks the ratio of 4th quarter come from behind wins to blown leads is a valid method of comparing a HC to his QB Dubious methodology to say the least But he is getting better 1 Quote
FireChans Posted July 24 Posted July 24 10 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: So your argument is that Josh doesn't give the bills a lead in the 4th? Do you seriously watch the bills? They had 6 losses this year- Jets game- On Josh in the 4th Jags game- was unreal in the 4th and got back to back TDs but D couldn't stop them- Didn't have a chance to give them a lead NE game- left the field with the lead under 2:00 but mcds D couldn't stop Mac jones Cinci game- TD late in the 4th, D couldn't stop to give him another chance to take lead. Denver game- Left the field with the lead, D couldn't hold under 2 mins Eagles game- Left the field TWICE with the lead, D couldn't stop end of regulation or OT So 3 of the 6 losses, Josh Allen left the field by giving them the lead , not to mention the game winning drives (which counters your argument) but the bills lost. Do you understand how much of an anomaly that is, to lose 3 games in one season when your team has the lead under 2 minutes to play?? Um, it’s a fact that preceded 2023. Like Allen’s whole tenure as a franchise QB. I went through every loss since 2020 Do you want me to link you the numbers? When I prove that Allen failed to get us a lead more than McD blew one, will you say uncle? I don’t mind. 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: You have to forgive @FireChans He thinks the ratio of 4th quarter come from behind wins to blown leads is a valid method of comparing a HC to his QB Dubious methodology to say the least But he is getting better Like I said, it doesn’t surprise me that Bills fans don’t believe it. They think Allen walks on water and McD can’t tie his shoes. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: Um, it’s a fact that preceded 2023. Like Allen’s whole tenure as a franchise QB. I went through every loss since 2020 Do you want me to link you the numbers? When I prove that Allen failed to get us a lead more than McD blew one, will you say uncle? I don’t mind. Like I said, it doesn’t surprise me that Bills fans don’t believe it. They think Allen walks on water and McD can’t tie his shoes. Like I said Those two things should not be used in conjunction to reach your conclusion 1 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, FireChans said: Um, it’s a fact that preceded 2023. Like Allen’s whole tenure as a franchise QB. I went through every loss since 2020 Do you want me to link you the numbers? When I prove that Allen failed to get us a lead more than McD blew one, will you say uncle? I don’t mind. Man do you know how rare it is to blow multiple leads under 2 minutes ?😂 Of course that's going to be the case. Like I said- Josh Allen has lost 7 games in his career where he's had the lead in the 4th. Tom Brady has played for over 2 decades and has less than that 😂 But sure if you want, go for it- Just make sure to give Mahomes and Burrows numbers as well because news flash... Not all elite QBs come through every game. Your saviour Mahomes threw a pick to Taron in 2022 to end the game. I know that must have been a tough one for you Quote
FireChans Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, GoBills808 said: Like I said Those two things should not be used in conjunction to reach your conclusion That’s a diffeeent take. anyone arguing that there’s no way that the stat is true is still wrong. Quote
BillsFan130 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, GoBills808 said: Like I said Those two things should not be used in conjunction to reach your conclusion It's an absolutely ridiculous argument 1 Quote
FireChans Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, BillsFan130 said: Man do you know how rare it is to blow multiple leads under 2 minutes ?😂 Of course that's going to be the case. Like I said- Josh Allen has lost 7 games in his career where he's had the lead in the 4th. Tom Brady has played for over 2 decades and has less than that 😂 But sure if you want, go for it- Just make sure to give Mahomes and Burrows numbers as well because news flash... Not all elite QBs come through every game. Your saviour Mahomes threw a pick to Taron in 2022 to end the game. I know that must have been a tough one for you Not under 2 minutes. In the 4th Q. we have more losses where Allen failed to get a lead in the fourth than where McD lost a lead lol. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 1 minute ago, FireChans said: That’s a diffeeent take. anyone arguing that there’s no way that the stat is true is still wrong. I know, I'm trying to provide context Teams are EXPECTED to win games where they lead late, it's statistically very likely. I showed you those win% figures So saying we blow fewer leads than we have fourth quarter comebacks...I mean that really isn't saying anything relevant, their relationship doesn't prove anything Quote
BillsFan130 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Not under 2 minutes. In the 4th Q. we have more losses where Allen failed to get a lead in the fourth than where McD lost a lead lol. And what's it Relative to Burrow/Zac Taylor ? Mahomes/Reid? Lamar/Harbaugh? Etc Because you're giving me a random stat without any context to the rest of the QBs/coaches Quote
FireChans Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, GoBills808 said: I know, I'm trying to provide context Teams are EXPECTED to win games where they lead late, it's statistically very likely. I showed you those win% figures So saying we blow fewer leads than we have fourth quarter comebacks...I mean that really isn't saying anything relevant, their relationship doesn't prove anything It proves that Allen is overrated or McD is underrated. Probably a little of both. 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, FireChans said: It proves that Allen is overrated or McD is underrated. Probably a little of both. It really doesn't You'd need to compare each to the rest of the league, not to each other What you are trying to do does not math 1 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 (edited) 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: It really doesn't You'd need to compare each to the rest of the league, not to each other What you are trying to do does not math Exactly. It's a random stat that has 0 context relative to the rest of the league Edited July 24 by BillsFan130 Quote
FireChans Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, BillsFan130 said: And what's it Relative to Burrow/Zac Taylor ? Mahomes/Reid? Lamar/Harbaugh? Etc Because you're giving me a random stat without any context to the rest of the QBs/coaches I don’t know. All I know is that you are accepting it is in fact a fact. That’s all I need. Quote
BillsFan130 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: I don’t know. All I know is that you are accepting it is in fact a fact. That’s all I need. You go on your random stat that has 0 context to the rest of the league that feeds your bias. For all I know , that ratio you provided is the best in the NFL for Josh, so it proves absolutely nothing. I'll stick to the actual data that confirms Josh is a clutch QB in totality and in the 4th. Have a good night Edited July 24 by BillsFan130 Quote
FireChans Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Just now, BillsFan130 said: You go on your random stat that has 0 context to the rest of the league that feeds your bias. For all I know , that ratio you provided is the best in the NFL for Josh, so it proves absolutely nothing. I'll stick to the actual data that confirms Josh is a clutch QB in totality and in the 4th. Have a good night He’s got great numbers in the fourth Q AND he doesn’t fall victim to McD bumbling the lead away nearly as much as you thought an hour ago. Point proven. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: I don’t know. All I know is that you are accepting it is in fact a fact. That’s all I need. Just so we are clear Losing a game where you were ahead in the 4th is statistically unlikely. You are taking the absence of a statistically unlikely event in McDermott's favor Come from behind victories in the 4th quarter are also statistically unlikely. Here you are taking the absence of a statistically unlikely event to Allen's detriment Do you see why you shouldn't try to put these two things in a ratio together Quote
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