WideNine Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 21 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: People will say wideout but Mahomes has looked beatable in the postseason with pressure. He's 2-2 in the postseason when sacked 4 times and 3-1 when sacked 3 times with several close games. Buffalo has 3 sacks against him in total. His rating is substantially worse in games defenses could get to him. It's frustrating to keep investing in the defense but it seems to be the only path. Ed Oliver is the only difference maker we have on the line and even Ed will disappear sometimes. It's just not enough. That, and half our starters are usually on crutches or sporting arm slings and braces by the post season. The drop off from our starters to the retired Kline and one-armed Dodsons of the sport is noticeable. And Tim Settle or Phillips are not the same player as Jones on the interior. Cannot count how many times I saw Settle getting rag dolled out there. Against KC where their OL strength is guard-to-guard you have to be stout in the middle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostwriter Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 The Bills have a 1st, 2nd, 2nd in next year’s Draft, so I’ll give you my top 3. In no order: 1.) Elite WR prospect 2.) Elite DT prospect that can play Nose. 3.) OT prospect (If we re-sign Brown this will no longer be a need and I’d go DE here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) On 7/14/2024 at 10:54 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said: Bills play only two linebackers more than any team in the league. Dorian Williams has crazy good speed. I know. And where were Milano and Bernard during the Divisional playoff game? This is my point. I don't want to go into another playoff hoping AJ Klein is available before going on vacation. Edited July 15 by billsbackto81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaldimandBills Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 9 hours ago, Mikie2times said: People will say wideout but Mahomes has looked beatable in the postseason with pressure. He's 2-2 in the postseason when sacked 4 times and 3-1 when sacked 3 times with several close games. Buffalo has 3 sacks against him in total. His rating is substantially worse in games defenses could get to him. It's frustrating to keep investing in the defense but it seems to be the only path. Ed Oliver is the only difference maker we have on the line and even Ed will disappear sometimes. It's just not enough. Exactly. How anyone can say anything other than Dline is mind boggling? Its the greatest equalizer in football. Our Dline can't get to Mahomes and the Bengals oline with three backups bullied our dline all game long. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 28 minutes ago, HaldimandBills said: Exactly. How anyone can say anything other than Dline is mind boggling? Its the greatest equalizer in football. Our Dline can't get to Mahomes and the Bengals oline with three backups bullied our dline all game long. lol precisely so adding to that unit is going to do what exactly invest in what works in the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 7 hours ago, GoBills808 said: lol precisely so adding to that unit is going to do what exactly invest in what works in the playoffs It's obvious why WR should be a priority and it very well could make us better as a whole. But at the end of the day a few extra WR's aren't going to beat KC while a few additional defensive stops will. Von Miller is the only legitimate pass rusher we have had since what Lorex? Mario? We have gotten jaded over the failed experiments at DE. But that doesn't mean the strategy was wrong. This goes double if we want to retain McD forever which is very possible in my opinion. I don't think he is even touching a hot seat as so many others do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Kicker - Bass didn't look so good late last fall, last winter. It looked like he lost confidence and that can be difficult to regain. Having a 2nd Kicker on the roster right now instead of a 17th O-Lineman or 13th WR seems to make sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, frostbitmic said: Kicker - Bass didn't look so good late last fall, last winter. It looked like he lost confidence and that can be difficult to regain. Having a 2nd Kicker on the roster right now instead of a 17th O-Lineman or 13th WR seems to make sense. That was a blind spot on this thread. And could well turn out to be the most urgent area to nail down if a few misses cost us key games. The teams on our menu this year are not pushovers and many games may likely be decided by a kick. There were years where I dreaded every punt, kickoff, and field goal because our Bills made those routine areas of the game that most fans take for granted into an adventure. Finally thought that area was solid when we coined our Bassomatic label. Never envisioned him getting a terminal case of the yips. Apparently they brought in some competition. Different isn't always better, but Bass needs to be better. Edited July 16 by WideNine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 On 7/14/2024 at 7:52 PM, DCofNC said: Yep! This is 100% spot on. This is also why I can’t help but wonder what in the world makes people think Oliver is a great player. Jones will flash more in a single game than Ed does all year and Jones does it when it matters. Oliver is a good player, Jones is a game changer. Late , but I must Ed Oliver is a fantastic disruptor. And has proven it. Especially last year. But In McD's D. He needs one or both of two things to shine 1st is the obvious. D Jones in the formation. When he went down the dline struggled. And an honest edge rush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 11 hours ago, Mikie2times said: It's obvious why WR should be a priority and it very well could make us better as a whole. But at the end of the day a few extra WR's aren't going to beat KC while a few additional defensive stops will. Von Miller is the only legitimate pass rusher we have had since what Lorex? Mario? We have gotten jaded over the failed experiments at DE. But that doesn't mean the strategy was wrong. This goes double if we want to retain McD forever which is very possible in my opinion. I don't think he is even touching a hot seat as so many others do. Miller killed Bills with injury regardless of reasoning It just did Floyd was a compliment with Groot Do better Interior beats mahomes with press coverage and outside contain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 10 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: Late , but I must Ed Oliver is a fantastic disruptor. And has proven it. Especially last year. But In McD's D. He needs one or both of two things to shine 1st is the obvious. D Jones in the formation. When he went down the dline struggled. And an honest edge rush my point exactly, he needs to be a secondary player. Jones is a stud and wrecks games on his own. Oliver gets taken out of entire games when he doesn’t have somebody else eating blockers for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) 17 hours ago, DCofNC said: my point exactly, he needs to be a secondary player. Jones is a stud and wrecks games on his own. Oliver gets taken out of entire games when he doesn’t have somebody else eating blockers for him. I think most 3-techs need that 1-tech that can draw the double-teams. Especially against a team like KC who has Humphrey and Thuney at LG where Oliver usually plays - very few 3-techs are going to win against a double-team from those two guys. Oliver is still impactful, plays with a hell of a motor, and occupies blockers, but he shines best and gets into the backfield more often when we have someone like Jones teams have to account for and he can play off of. I don't think it is a knock on Oliver, it just stresses the importance of having that impact guy in the middle if you hope to have your 3-tech be a disruptor in the backfield. With the Panthers McD had Star playing at a pro bowl level - it is part of the d-line formula, but they have struggled filling it here. They gave impact player money to Star when I think he was on the down slope with the tank mostly empty and we did not have the best compliment of 3-techs around him. Jones has been the best option to date and is very good when healthy. Edited July 18 by WideNine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) On 7/15/2024 at 2:46 PM, billsbackto81 said: I know. And where were Milano and Bernard during the Divisional playoff game? This is my point. I don't want to go into another playoff hoping AJ Klein is available before going on vacation. I think the Bills brass was counting on developing Spector into a solid backup or starter, but the dude gets injured when you sneeze on him. Hoping he can string together a healthy season at some point. Depth at LB has been challenged down the stretch and is so critical to how this defense plays at its best with its match-up LBs who can come up in run support, blitz as the 5th man or off different pressure or zone looks, and yet still skate with TEs and RBs releasing as well as picking up some of those routes off the slot. Babich has proven he can certainly coach up that position very well. Edited July 17 by WideNine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty shackleford Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 If McDermott has it his way it would be gunner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 On 7/17/2024 at 1:48 PM, WideNine said: I think most 3-techs need that 1-tech that can draw the double-teams. Especially against a team like KC who has Humphrey and Thuney at LG where Oliver usually plays - very few 3-techs are going to win against a double-team from those two guys. Oliver is still impactful, plays with a hell of a motor, and occupies blockers, but he shines best and gets into the backfield more often when we have someone like Jones teams have to account for and he can play off of. I don't think it is a knock on Oliver, it just stresses the importance of having that impact guy in the middle if you hope to have your 3-tech be a disruptor in the backfield. With the Panthers McD had Star playing at a pro bowl level - it is part of the d-line formula, but they have struggled filling it here. They gave impact player money to Star when I think he was on the down slope with the tank mostly empty and we did not have the best compliment of 3-techs around him. Jones has been the best option to date and is very good when healthy. You keep making the point, Oliver is easily neutralized unless you have somebody taking attention off him. He’s a compliment player, he’s NOT THE guy. Jones is THE guy, you can’t stop him, Donald was THE guy, triple him, doesn’t matter. Oliver is like a situational pass rusher, only useful when conditions are perfect. He’s basically the equivalent of Manny Lawson when he was here. Flashed when everyone was occupied, but the minute teams aren’t worried about a real player beside him, poof, he’s gone. Your whole argument basically says, Jones, a guy they picked up for a little of nothing, is the guy teams can’t stop one on one. Oliver has to have that to show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 5 hours ago, DCofNC said: You keep making the point, Oliver is easily neutralized unless you have somebody taking attention off him. He’s a compliment player, he’s NOT THE guy. Jones is THE guy, you can’t stop him, Donald was THE guy, triple him, doesn’t matter. Oliver is like a situational pass rusher, only useful when conditions are perfect. He’s basically the equivalent of Manny Lawson when he was here. Flashed when everyone was occupied, but the minute teams aren’t worried about a real player beside him, poof, he’s gone. Your whole argument basically says, Jones, a guy they picked up for a little of nothing, is the guy teams can’t stop one on one. Oliver has to have that to show up. We can agree to disagree. He is not Aaron Donald and I think we all can concede that point, but who is? Donald was a unicorn at the position and could rag doll OL players with 50-60 lbs on him. Just stating that a DL player is better when not facing double teams is academic. Donald was better too when teams gambled on blocking him one on one. Oliver racked up 9.5 QB sacks and 72 QB pressures last year and much of that without a lot of help and when having to work against double teams, as Jones was hurt for a good chunk and they also were rotating guys like Settle next to him. He does not have the name recognition or demand the pay of DTs turning in more pedestrian numbers. Hats off to Beane for what looks like a team-friendly contract. And he is not expected to play the middle like a 1-tech nor is he that hybrid DT that can line up and be effective inside or outside as he just does not have the size or build of a Chris Jones 6.6 315 vs 6.1 285. For how the Bills use him in the 3-tech role Oliver is effective and he stayed healthy and gave the team a solid performance last year. I am also pretty confident that teams game plan for him. Edited July 19 by WideNine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYfan Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Pass rusher, DE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 28 minutes ago, CNYfan said: Pass rusher, DE If we ran a 3-4 front that is where he would land. His measurables are so close to Donald's coming out in the draft that I think folks jumped the gun with expectations. Donald has freakish strength and leverage, but I think Oliver is just 25 so plenty of football ahead of him (knock on wood) and the book on him is not written yet. If he hit the open market folks here would find out quickly what other front offices think and would be willing to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 6 hours ago, WideNine said: If we ran a 3-4 front that is where he would land. His measurables are so close to Donald's coming out in the draft that I think folks jumped the gun with expectations. Donald has freakish strength and leverage, but I think Oliver is just 25 so plenty of football ahead of him (knock on wood) and the book on him is not written yet. If he hit the open market folks here would find out quickly what other front offices think and would be willing to pay. He doesn’t have the moves to play outside. He’s a good starter at 3T so he would be paid well. People here just need to quit acting like he’s some sort of generational talent, that he is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrivefourfive Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Game wreckers on the defensive line and edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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