Is Josh Allen already the best dual-threat QB ever?

[Chaos]

Imagine Allen with Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice.  

[Logic]

It is amazing -- absolutely amazing -- how much a Super Bowl championship can change a player's legacy.

I think Josh needs one championship to be considered the greatest dual threat QB of all time, assuming he more or less continues on his current statistical pace. Just one. Super Bowl MVP would be helpful, too.

Without it, there's still a chance he winds up being called the greatest dual threat ever. But to illustrate how much weight a championship carries, consider Dan Marino. He's already an all-time great and a Hall of Famer, but think of how much differently we would view his legacy if he had won a Lombardi or two. 

Another one I think about is Brett Favre. He's the most direct comparison to Josh I can think of, in terms of his mercurial nature as a player. Absolute brilliance and heroics one moment, absolute bone-headed interception the next. And yet, we will always remember him as a top 10, all time great. Why? Two Lombardis. Comparatively, how would he be remembered overall if he hadn't won any?







 

[Alphadawg7]

On 7/12/2024 at 7:29 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

Joe Marino explores the question in yesterday's episode:

 

Cliffs notes version: arguably he probably is, but definitely in the next year or 2.

 

Some other good Josh Allen nuggets in the 2nd half of the episode 

Yes he is IMHO.  There are great dual threat QBs in history like Young and Elway, but they were not on the same level as Allen is as a runner.  
 

Then there are the others who were amongst the greatest runners like Cunningham, Vick, Lamar.  But they are not on the same level as Allen as a passer.  
 

Allen is the only QB in NFL history that is both elite as a passer and runner.  He can do things as a QB that simply no other QB in history can do.  Had he been drafted by KC I have no doubt he would be in the GOAT conversations already like Mahomes because he would have the hardware to go with his talent and probably has even better stats that many of which are already NFL records now.  

[ddaryl]

Allen hasn't quite made it to the top of the list, but my money says when he hangs them up there won't be much debate about it. Allen will be in the lead of the conversation of best dual threat QB.

Although the game has changed over the decades Josh is putting up huge numbers and if he stays the course he will obliterate others on the list. 

People will argue the difference in the game, and that is a legitimate debate, but Josh should always be in the top of that conversation if he continues to play the way that he has.

[Billl]

41 minutes ago, Logic said:

Another one I think about is Brett Favre. He's the most direct comparison to Josh I can think of, in terms of his mercurial nature as a player. Absolute brilliance and heroics one moment, absolute bone-headed interception the next. And yet, we will always remember him as a top 10, all time great. Why? Two Lombardis. Comparatively, how would he be remembered overall if he hadn't won any?

Favre is the closest comparison IMO for Allen.  He’s considered an all time great because he won 3 consecutive MVPs (and only 1 Lombardi, BTW).  He was also runner up twice and finished 3rd and 4th (15 years after he won his first MVP).  In absolute terms, Josh may be better than Favre, but you 100% have to take the era into consideration.  There was a long stretch during which he was unquestionably the best player in the league by a wide margin.  That matters in the GOAT discussion.

[T master]

I believe if he isn't the best ever he's at the top of the list even if the national media doesn't recognize it . After what he did last season to finish it off then the numbers he has put up since coming into the league there shouldn't be any question of where he ranks at the top of that list .

 

Like i said he puts up as many high lights as Randall C. - Steve Y. - Vick - Jackson - any of them and by the time his career is over i think he could own out right a lot of the records that those guys hold now it's just a matter of time !

 

But we have to keep in mind he plays for the Bills & they still get no respect ...

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

7 hours ago, Logic said:

Another one I think about is Brett Favre. He's the most direct comparison to Josh I can think of, in terms of his mercurial nature as a player. Absolute brilliance and heroics one moment, absolute bone-headed interception the next. And yet, we will always remember him as a top 10, all time great. Why? Two Lombardis. Comparatively, how would he be remembered overall if he hadn't won any?







 

 

Farve only won one. He went to two. 

 

Had he not won one, he would still be a three time consecutive league MVP. 

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, Logic said:

It is amazing -- absolutely amazing -- how much a Super Bowl championship can change a player's legacy.

I think Josh needs one championship to be considered the greatest dual threat QB of all time, assuming he more or less continues on his current statistical pace. Just one. Super Bowl MVP would be helpful, too.

Without it, there's still a chance he winds up being called the greatest dual threat ever. But to illustrate how much weight a championship carries, consider Dan Marino. He's already an all-time great and a Hall of Famer, but think of how much differently we would view his legacy if he had won a Lombardi or two. 

Another one I think about is Brett Favre. He's the most direct comparison to Josh I can think of, in terms of his mercurial nature as a player. Absolute brilliance and heroics one moment, absolute bone-headed interception the next. And yet, we will always remember him as a top 10, all time great. Why? Two Lombardis. Comparatively, how would he be remembered overall if he hadn't won any?

Steve Young.  It is all about winning that one RING.  Go Bills !

[BullBuchanan]

Young and Elway are still considerably ahead of him. I'm also taking Mahomes ahead of him regardless of category, because while Allen might rush for more yards, Mahomes is an excellent and effective runner of the football, but he doesn't rely on it nearly as much as Allen. I don't really care that Allen piles up personal stats in the regular season.

[Mr. WEO]

On 7/13/2024 at 8:35 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Tarkenton

Elway

Young

Staubach

Allen

Jackson

Vick

 

not a serious list without Cunningham.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

not a serious list without Cunningham.  

Fair. My bigger ommission was Cam Newton. He was a better passer than Cunningham, Jackson, and Vick. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Fair. My bigger ommission was Cam Newton. He was a better passer than Cunningham, Jackson, and Vick. 

true.  Take out Elway and Staubach and put in Newton

[Ethan in Cleveland]

31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

true.  Take out Elway and Staubach and put in Newton

Yeah you can make that argument. 

I do think having guys from different eras is worthy too. NFL has evolved so much and one way of looking at it is who was the best in their respective eras. Then you try to rank order their relative dominance compared to others. 

Newton took such a beating both In and out of the pocket. No doubt it ruined his career. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Yeah you can make that argument. 

I do think having guys from different eras is worthy too. NFL has evolved so much and one way of looking at it is who was the best in their respective eras. Then you try to rank order their relative dominance compared to others. 

Newton took such a beating both In and out of the pocket. No doubt it ruined his career. 

 

This is a commonly held belief about Cam but if you do the research there were two isolated events that ruined his right shoulder.  One was a tackle attempt after an interception and the other was TJ Watt driving his helmet into Cam's armpit while in the middle of his throwing motion.  I do not think cam showed much decline as a runner but his arm looked like it was wrecked during his time with the Patriots.

 

Watt hit on Newton

 

Tackle attempt versus Chargers

 

 

Edited July 16 by JESSEFEFFER

[Scraps]

Doug Flutie.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 7/15/2024 at 7:43 AM, Chaos said:

Imagine Allen with Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice.  

 

Imagine Josh Allen with Andy Reid, Tyreek Hill and Trevis Kelce 

[LABILLBACKER]

He's clearly better as an all around athletic qb than Cam, Lamar and Vick. Give him 1 MVP and a Lombardi to go with his career stats and he'll pass Elway & Young. 

[Chicken Boo]

On 7/12/2024 at 10:55 PM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

That’s a weird way to spell Josh Allen.

 

Off the top of my head and without too much thought I would say without a doubt Allen is the greatest dual threat QB ever. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Greatest" without a single Super Bowl  appearance over John Elway?

 

Crazy talk.  

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 7/15/2024 at 1:44 PM, Logic said:

It is amazing -- absolutely amazing -- how much a Super Bowl championship can change a player's legacy.

I think Josh needs one championship to be considered the greatest dual threat QB of all time, assuming he more or less continues on his current statistical pace. Just one. Super Bowl MVP would be helpful, too.

Without it, there's still a chance he winds up being called the greatest dual threat ever. But to illustrate how much weight a championship carries, consider Dan Marino. He's already an all-time great and a Hall of Famer, but think of how much differently we would view his legacy if he had won a Lombardi or two. 

Another one I think about is Brett Favre. He's the most direct comparison to Josh I can think of, in terms of his mercurial nature as a player. Absolute brilliance and heroics one moment, absolute bone-headed interception the next. And yet, we will always remember him as a top 10, all time great. Why? Two Lombardis. Comparatively, how would he be remembered overall if he hadn't won any?







 

Exactly. A Super Bowl win is the difference between a Fran Tarkenton and a Brett Favre. I am confident Josh will get one. Buffalo has had the worst luck w/ injuries. If they can get into the playoffs relatively healthy then it’s a strong possibility. As far as the best dual threat ? By a mile and he’s still young. Imagine what his stats will look like in another 5 years. 

[oldmanfan]

On 7/15/2024 at 1:43 PM, Chaos said:

Imagine Allen with Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice.  

Imagine anyone with a functioning arm with Rice and Walsh