TheyCallMeAndy Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 15 hours ago, Taro Nimbus said: Right now, probably Cam Newton or Mike Vick. Another season or two and Allen will be at the top. Duel threat, not scrambling. Vick didn’t threaten much through the air. Cam had 3-4 dominant seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 16 hours ago, Taro Nimbus said: Right now, probably Cam Newton or Mike Vick. Another season or two and Allen will be at the top. Not nearly the passers Allen is. They might be the answer if the question is "who's the best running qb ever?" But "dual threat means you better factor in passing, and while Allen might be a small step behind those QBs as a runner, he's leaps and bounds ahead of them as a passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Not nearly the passers Allen is. They might be the answer if the question is "who's the best running qb ever?" But "dual threat means you better factor in passing, and while Allen might be a small step behind those QBs as a runner, he's leaps and bounds ahead of them as a passer. The best QBs I've seen as runners are in order Fields Kaepernick Vick Allen and Jackson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 15 hours ago, That's No Moon said: If Allen did what he does now in the timeframe when Elway played he'd never survive. There isn't a Ronnie Lott or Steve Atwater in the modern game. In Elway's time everybody had someone who at least tried to hit like that. There is a reason that "dual-threat" QBs with big dual-threat stats don't really exist historically and one of the comparisons to Allen retired due to repeated concussions (Steve Young). If you ran that much on purpose you'd get hurt. There are also a couple people who would have been interesting if you teleported them out of the Neanderthal offenses their coaches insisted on running at the time. Randall Cunningham being one of them. I've said it repeatedly and will continue to, if you took some of the QBs out of the 80's and early 90's when passing started to become a much larger thing and put them into the modern world where they can't be touched and their WRs can't really be touched they'd look amazing and would have lasted significantly longer to boot. So yeah, call Allen the best dual-threat QB ever if you have to but just recognize that there have been people who came before that would have looked MUCH different if they played under the current rules. Marino threw for 5k yards under those conditions in 1984 and it took until 2008 before anybody did it again. Since 2008 it's happened 14 times. It's a different game. Making these sorts of statements and comparisons is going to be inherently flawed and almost always skews in favor of the more recent players but don't tell me you watched that Elway highlight video and didn't see Josh Allen running. Ya know... this is all well and good, but here's the thing you're discounting: by any era, Allen is probably the greatest physical freak as a QB the NFL has ever seen. Elway was a freak for his day, but he was 6'3 and 215 lbs. Allen has almost 2 inches of height and anywhere between 20-30 lbs on him. And while Elway had a cannon for an arm, when you watch highlights of both players I don't see how you come away saying Allen doesn't definitively have the stronger arm. And it's not like the height, weight and arm strength for Allen are because of when he's playing, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: The best QBs I've seen as runners are in order Fields Kaepernick Vick Allen and Jackson I would still give the nod to Jackson and Vick over Fields and Kaepernick for pure running ability. Vick is in the class of "we will never see that again" IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel2014 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 I know alot of you can't stand Michael Vick (the person) but Michael Vick the football player was like noone I've ever seen before when he first came on the scene. A rocket accurate arm with Tyreek Hill's speed, I really wish he didn't do what he did because he was (in my mind) 100% going to be a hall of famer otherwise. Josh Allen will probably become that but Vick will always be the best dual threat at least in my opinion that I've ever seen play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 On 7/12/2024 at 10:40 PM, That's No Moon said: His name is John Elway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-qKumxuDxA&ab_channel=NFLThrowback the MTC guys on NFLR reference Josh is the closest anyone has ever come to John Elway. Josh plays the game just like him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 8 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said: I know alot of you can't stand Michael Vick (the person) but Michael Vick the football player was like noone I've ever seen before when he first came on the scene. A rocket accurate arm with Tyreek Hill's speed, I really wish he didn't do what he did because he was (in my mind) 100% going to be a hall of famer otherwise. Josh Allen will probably become that but Vick will always be the best dual threat at least in my opinion that I've ever seen play. Poor accuracy though (56.2% completion percentage) and the most he ever passed for yardage wise was 3,308 yards (under Reid) in 2011. I guess a dual threat quarterback needs to be better defined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 13 hours ago, GoBills808 said: The best QBs I've seen as runners are in order Fields Kaepernick Vick Allen and Jackson The point of the thread was the best dual threat QB, not the best running QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 On 7/12/2024 at 10:40 PM, That's No Moon said: His name is John Elway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-qKumxuDxA&ab_channel=NFLThrowback Elway had mobility but he was not a dual threat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I don't like the backhanded compliment, implying he's not a candidate for best overall quarterback, sorta like saying Thurman was the best "all-around" back. But of course he's the best dual threat of all time. It's not even close. You can quibble about different eras, but Allen is bigger and stronger than Young, a better passer than Elway and Lamar, and a much, much better passer than Newton, Fields, Vick et al. He might end up being the best passer of all time. It's still early, and he's on pace for a truly spectacular career. Just needs a few Super Bowls wins to revise the narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 On 7/13/2024 at 12:12 AM, Gugny said: Maybe I’m just old school, but the “best ever” at anything actually has to win a championship. Steve Young, hands down. Not old enough... Fran Tarkenton just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Imagine an alternate universe where you're a GM and every football player who's ever suited up still lives and performs at their very peak. The franchise owner promises you that she won't meddle in the roster except for one stipulation: she wants you to sign the greatest dual-threat QB ever. In that scenario, I pick Josh. There have been better runners. There have been better throwers. But none who have combined those two skills the way Josh has. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZSanta Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) On 7/12/2024 at 11:08 PM, GASabresIUFan said: Steve Young. Those pesky MVPs and a Super Bowl win. I was watching an old 49er game with Steve Young at QB and I said to myself that is Josh Allen to a T. Aside from Young being a lefty. I hope our boy gets at least 1 mvp and Superbowl. It'd be a damn shame if he does not. Edited July 14 by AZSanta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 In the modern era of that description absolutely, it’s not even disputable. Not that other QBs aren’t good, they just aren’t Josh Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Can't believe more people are not mentioning Tarkenton. He is still 7th all time on QB rush yards playing only 14 game schedule. Another guy I missed is Russell Wilson. He's 3rd all time in QB rush yards behind only Vick and Newton. Even watching him up close all those years I never thought of him as a running QB. I don't recall many designed runs for him. He was more escape artist than runner to me. But the yards don't lie. Also it's interesting that almost all of us have Elway on the short list yet he is 12th in all time rush yards. Perhaps we're are biasd by his first few years and that run in the SuperBowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) By the end of his career he will be and the numbers will be so far ahead of anyone else they will be ridiculous. 3 hours ago, Don Otreply said: In the modern era of that description absolutely, it’s not even disputable. Not that other QBs aren’t good, they just aren’t Josh Allen. Pretty much to any other fan base than KC we can say to any argument they have "Yeah, but we have Josh Allen and you don't." That says a lot about just how good he is. 6 hours ago, finn said: I don't like the backhanded compliment, implying he's not a candidate for best overall quarterback, sorta like saying Thurman was the best "all-around" back. But of course he's the best dual threat of all time. It's not even close. You can quibble about different eras, but Allen is bigger and stronger than Young, a better passer than Elway and Lamar, and a much, much better passer than Newton, Fields, Vick et al. He might end up being the best passer of all time. It's still early, and he's on pace for a truly spectacular career. Just needs a few Super Bowls wins to revise the narrative. Josh Allen is on a unanimous first ballot HOF track if he continues playing at this level. I hope nobody ever takes this era for granted because we may never see anything like him again with the Bills once he is gone. Edited July 14 by Big Turk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Here's what some NFL execs think of Allen, according to an article by ESPN's Jeremy Fowler... Exec A "One of the more overrated players in the NFL. Immense talent but he makes a lot of mistakes. He's underdeveloped at winning at the line of scrimmage, tends to lock on to targets, more of a thrower than precision passer, forces throws into traffic." Exec B: "He leaves you wanting more a little bit. But if you're picking who you want to have to lead your team, he's going to be second or third for most people. The ceiling is still really high. And I don't really feel he was the reason the Bills haven't been able to finish." "High Ranking" NFL Official: "I saw a quarterback who is consistently a high performer who elevates his team at every chance." ww.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-executive-rips-bills-josh-allen-as-overrated/ar-BB1q1deH?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=865503d98d874b368202391db2a30f9d&ei=24 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 6 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Exec A "One of the more overrated players in the NFL. Immense talent but he makes a lot of mistakes. He's underdeveloped at winning at the line of scrimmage, tends to lock on to targets, more of a thrower than precision passer, forces throws into traffic." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 With a least one, or say, two SuperBowl wins, no one would doubt JA17 as a top 3 QB, and as #1 for dual threat. So, yet another incentive for him to be part of a Superbowl winning Bills team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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