Florida Bills Fanatic Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 10 hours ago, Logic said: Maybe if you list OLB and ILB separately. I listed them together, though, and I'm not sure who you'd realistically take off my list to include Milano. You put together a great list. Winfield at corner was the only other name that might be in consideration for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 12 hours ago, mushypeaches said: Safety - his last choice here was Mark Kelso - who played 9 seasons with the Bills. Kelso was a solid center fielder playing in an era where QB accuracy (and defensive rules) were a lot different from today's game. He racked up a lot of INT's just by sitting back and catching overthrown deep balls. So, a nice player, but not a game changer or someone that offenses game planned against. Kelso was also very slight of frame, and thus not a great tackler, which again manifested itself on the biggest stages in games that the Bills got run over. I've rewatched at least 75 games from 88-95 over the past few years, and these two players were arguably the WEAKEST links in our defenses over that era. Yeah Kelso is quite the choice. I'd place a guy like Leonard Smith over him even though he was only here for 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, QCity said: Yeah Kelso is quite the choice. I'd place a guy like Leonard Smith over him even though he was only here for 4 years. Not if longevity and consistency weigh heavily, as they appear to with Marino's criteria. Smith was not the same reliable, steadying presence that Kelso was IIRC. I was youngish at the time, though. I remember Smith being flashier, both good and bad. Kinda like Nate Odoms in that way. (Smith was more of a SS though, wasn't he? Very different position from Kelso's FS back then.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostwriter Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Marv Levy Sean McDermott Lou Saban Wade Phillips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Buffalo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Guys who have no business being on a Bills Mt. Rushmore. Jeff Wright, for reasons already discussed. John Fina, LT. I acknowledge that Bills' OLs have been more bad than good over the years. But mentioning John Fina's name in a context such as this is the act of a drowning man clutching at any straw he can possibly find. Back when Fina was active, the Bills used two different rating services. Both had Fina in the bottom 10 of starting NFL LTs, with one putting him lower down in the bottom ten than did the other. Cordy Glenn was a much better football player than Fina. Nate Clements, CB. He had one good year with the Bills (contract year). Then the 49ers overpaid him, and he proceeded to do not much while he was there. Antoine Winfield was a much better player. Keith McKeller, TE. 1464 career receiving yards. (7 year career). Dawson Knox has already surpassed that, at 1966 (5 year career and counting). Dalton Kincaid has 673 receiving yards: nearly half McKeller's career total. Kincaid has been in the league just one year, and was under-utilized. Players who deserve to be on Bills Mt. Rushmore: Ted Washington, DT. Made lots of plays, and showed up big on the stat sheet, while consuming two blockers. Bryce Paup, pass rushing OLB (3-4). 17.5 sacks in a season. Defensive MVP for entire NFL. Henry Jones, safety. Honorable mention players: Pat Williams, DT. Ryan Fitzpatrick, QB Jason Peters, LT. Would have been a shoe-in had he been here longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Some other guys I thought about after my list that merit consideration: CB: I had Taron Johnson but I might switch to Robert James. Terrific corner. S: Had Saimes, Greene, Poyer, Hyde but Henry Jones should get mention here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 The TE legacy of the Bills is woeful … I trust that will change with Kincaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Robert James at cornerback is an absolute lock for any all Bills team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 21 hours ago, Logic said: I'm bored at work and absolutely refuse to get started on my Excel spreadsheets, so I decided to play the "Bills positional Mt Rushmore" game using the criteria cited. No one asked for this, but here it is anyway. Sorry, employer. QB Josh Allen Jim Kelly Jack Kemp Joe Ferguson RB Thurman Thomas OJ Simpson Joe Cribbs Fred Jackson FB Cookie Gilchrist Sam Gash Larry Centers Jim Braxton WR Andre Reed Eric Moulds Elbert Dubenion Stefon Diggs TE Ernie Warlick Pete Metzelaars Keith McKellar Paul Costa OT House Ballard Will Wolford John Fina Dion Dawkins OG Joe DeLamielleure Billy Shaw Ruben Brown Jim Ritcher C Kent Hull Al Bemiller Mitch Morse Eric Wood DE Bruce Smith Aaron Schobel Mario Williams Phil Hansen DT Tom Sestak Kyle Williams Fred Smerlas Mike Kadish LB Darryl Talley Cornelius Bennett Mike Stratton Shane Conlan CB Butch Byrd Booker Edgerson Nate Odomes Nate Clements S George Saimes Micah Hyde Jordan Poyer Tony Greene We’re gonna need a bigger mountain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cvanvol7 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 5 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said: Guys who have no business being on a Bills Mt. Rushmore. Jeff Wright, for reasons already discussed. John Fina, LT. I acknowledge that Bills' OLs have been more bad than good over the years. But mentioning John Fina's name in a context such as this is the act of a drowning man clutching at any straw he can possibly find. Back when Fina was active, the Bills used two different rating services. Both had Fina in the bottom 10 of starting NFL LTs, with one putting him lower down in the bottom ten than did the other. Cordy Glenn was a much better football player than Fina. Nate Clements, CB. He had one good year with the Bills (contract year). Then the 49ers overpaid him, and he proceeded to do not much while he was there. Antoine Winfield was a much better player. Keith McKeller, TE. 1464 career receiving yards. (7 year career). Dawson Knox has already surpassed that, at 1966 (5 year career and counting). Dalton Kincaid has 673 receiving yards: nearly half McKeller's career total. Kincaid has been in the league just one year, and was under-utilized. Players who deserve to be on Bills Mt. Rushmore: Ted Washington, DT. Made lots of plays, and showed up big on the stat sheet, while consuming two blockers. Bryce Paup, pass rushing OLB (3-4). 17.5 sacks in a season. Defensive MVP for entire NFL. Henry Jones, safety. Honorable mention players: Pat Williams, DT. Ryan Fitzpatrick, QB Jason Peters, LT. Would have been a shoe-in had he been here longer. Im very curious now to hear peoples opinions of Clements vs Winfield now after seeing the initial list. I always thought Winfield was far and away better than Clements 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 23 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said: Defensive Tackle (nose too)....Tom Sestak, Fred Smerlas, Ted Washington, Ron McDole. McDole was a DE, not a tackle. On the 60's Championship Teams, it was Dunaway and Sestak in the middle and Day and McDole on the ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP51 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, sherpa said: Robert James at cornerback is an absolute lock for any all Bills team. To bad he blew his knee, he was excellent 11 hours ago, QCity said: Yeah Kelso is quite the choice. I'd place a guy like Leonard Smith over him even though he was only here for 4 years. Love me some LS! I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 29 minutes ago, Never NEVER Give-up said: McDole was a DE, not a tackle. On the 60's Championship Teams, it was Dunaway and Sestak in the middle and Day and McDole on the ends. Yes you are right! Defensive ends were big back then. I'll substitute McDole with Kyle Williams then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP51 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 4 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said: The TE legacy of the Bills is woeful … I trust that will change with Kincaid truer words... when I did my list I was like.... Ok Warlick yes... Metzalaars... uhm... Gant? Geez not really, Paul Seymour? Uhm no not really, Lonnie Johnson LOL... nyet, Mark Brammer? Jay Remiersma? Butch "Shake Rattle and" Rolle... nope... Like who do you put there... Heck I would take Knox and Kincaid at this point over pretty much all of them save Warlick Metz and Gant.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 8 hours ago, Cvanvol7 said: Im very curious now to hear peoples opinions of Clements vs Winfield now after seeing the initial list. I always thought Winfield was far and away better than Clements Clemons and Winfield were B grade players. Made precious few big plays back in the day. I didn't care when they left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 21 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Seeing as I’m one of the few here who have been watching since 1960 I’ll give it a shot: QB: Kelly, Allen, Kemp, Fergy. RB: OJ, Thurman, Cookie, McCoy (Cribbs very close) FB: Braxton, Gash, Centers, Carleton WR: Reed, Diggs, Moulds, Jerry Butler TE: Warlick, Metzelaars, MacKeller, Kincaid T: Dawkins, Wofford, Stew Barber, Ballard G: Shaw, Joe D, Brown, McKenzie Center: Hull, Wood, Morse, Bemiller DE: Bruce, McDole, Schoebel, Hughes DT: Sestak, Smerlas, K Williams, Washington MLB/ILB: Fletcher, Haslett, Harry Jacobs, Shane Nelson OLB: Milano, Bennett, Stratton, Paup CB: White, Byrd, Egerson, Taron Johnson S: Saimes, Greene, Poyer, Hyde Sure I missed some but these stand out to me. Like your list. I think you missed bad on CB. Byrd was a safety. You’re missing Winfield and Odomes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/11/2024 at 2:55 PM, JP51 said: They were and then Mark Maddox I believe Cowart Rogers and Maddox called themselves the "Bruise Brothers" LOL... I hesitated on Paup only because today he would be defined as an "Edge Rusher" but back then he was an LB with minimal coverage duties LOL... but he rolled 19 sacks that year still a team record I believe. I believe Maddox was more back in the Super Bowl years. But those numbers for Paup in 1995 were off the chart. He was a hell of a player for Green Bay and then the Bills. Too bad he took the money and left for the Jags. A great player. Not HOF great. But still had a really good career. An anecdote about Maddox. My mother used to work for the Western NY Blind Association as a social worker. She told me she helped one of Maddox's relatives who was blind. Said she met him, and he was a real nice guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/11/2024 at 3:03 PM, Logic said: In truth, I'm too young to have watched guys like Saimes, Joe D, and Billy Shaw. I love digging into the history of Bills greats via books, Youtube clips, game highlights, etc, and I try to educate myself on the history of the franchise and its greatest players to the best of my abilities. But surely those who are old enough to have actually watched the Bills from their inception onward might have different and/or more well informed opinions. I based a lot of my list on professional accolades (All-Pros and Pro Bowls), Hall of Fame and Wall of Fame enshrinements, and career statistics accrued as Buffalo Bills. It explains how a guy like Conlan made my list over a guy like Milano or Cowart. If I was to base my list purely on the eye test and on guys I actually saw play in my lifetime, it would look quite different. That's very interesting Logic. You sound like a real student of the Bills going way back. I moved to Buffalo at the start of 1976 when I was 10 and became a fan at that point. I remember a guy named Terry Miller who came on board as a RB out of Oklahoma State in I believe in 1978 under Chuck Knox. My first game I went to was in 1977 against the Colts. It was really cold, and we sucked. Gave up like 10 sacks back when the Colts had a great front 4. Dutton Ehrmann Cook and Barnes I think were their names. They just destroyed Fergy that cold day, while me and my buddy froze. Are you a big student of the entire NFL? I was watching hilites the other night on You Tube of the Chargers 1970 season. LOL. Love the music and John Facenda narrating the show. On 7/11/2024 at 4:08 PM, amprov56 said: I finally agree with MJS Excellent thought provoking post, I did see Saimes play and he was the best FS in the game! mine too, seen them all, great players and part of the old school! That's interesting about Saimes. He is on the wall so he must have been a force. Is he alive still? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amprov56 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 51 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said: That's very interesting Logic. You sound like a real student of the Bills going way back. I moved to Buffalo at the start of 1976 when I was 10 and became a fan at that point. I remember a guy named Terry Miller who came on board as a RB out of Oklahoma State in I believe in 1978 under Chuck Knox. My first game I went to was in 1977 against the Colts. It was really cold, and we sucked. Gave up like 10 sacks back when the Colts had a great front 4. Dutton Ehrmann Cook and Barnes I think were their names. They just destroyed Fergy that cold day, while me and my buddy froze. Are you a big student of the entire NFL? I was watching hilites the other night on You Tube of the Chargers 1970 season. LOL. Love the music and John Facenda narrating the show. That's interesting about Saimes. He is on the wall so he must have been a force. Is he alive still? Passed away in 2013; the thing about these players from that era is they were just normal working Joes who lived like most of the fans did and interacted with them like normal people. The fans of that era regardless of the Bills performance were not angry and vengeful, they just waited for next year and rooted hard for all of the players, they were part of the "blue collar" community! The AFL and the 1960's Bills provided alot of much needed relief for people that worked hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Mr. Ted Washington is THE best run stopper in NFL History! #1! The best! And he not limited as just a run stopper. He is in my top ten Bills all-time. i loved watching him play. And! And! If Marv Levy went out and got Jerry Ball for our D way back when, we would have won at least one Super Bowl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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