The Firebaugh Kid Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I scoffed at the Jeff Wright selection too over big Ted. That's boolsit honestly. I commented on the thread too how he left Bryce Paup off as an honorable mention, but I suppose it's because he only played here for 3 years. The man he 17.5 sacks in 1995. That's nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Milano is better player than Conlan ever was. In fact I'd list Sam Cowart and London Fletcher over Conlan. Nice to see Talley not make the list. Fletcher/Cowart/Milano combined (as Buffalo Bills): one 1st team All-Pro, one 2nd team All Pro, two Pro Bowls Conlan: DROY, three 2nd team All Pros, three Pro Bowls. If Fletcher had played the rest of his career in Buffalo, I'd agree he should make the list. His best statistical years and accolades came as a Redskin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 17 minutes ago, Logic said: Fletcher/Cowart/Milano combined (as Buffalo Bills): one 1st team All-Pro, one 2nd team All Pro, two Pro Bowls Conlan: DROY, three 2nd team All Pros, three Pro Bowls. If Fletcher had played the rest of his career in Buffalo, I'd agree he should make the list. His best statistical years and accolades came as a Redskin. I liked Conlan back in the day. He's my brothers favorite player. I'd still take my listed three over him any day. Just think those three made more plays than Conlan did. You could add Spikes to that list as well. If Cowart didn't get injured he looked like he was going to be great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP51 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, Logic said: I'm bored at work and absolutely refuse to get started on my Excel spreadsheets, so I decided to play the "Bills positional Mt Rushmore" game using the criteria cited. No one asked for this, but here it is anyway. Sorry, employer. QB Josh Allen Jim Kelly Jack Kemp Joe Ferguson RB Thurman Thomas OJ Simpson Joe Cribbs Fred Jackson FB Cookie Gilchrist Sam Gash Larry Centers Jim Braxton WR Andre Reed Eric Moulds Elbert Dubenion Stefon Diggs TE Ernie Warlick Pete Metzelaars Keith McKellar Paul Costa OT House Ballard Will Wolford John Fina Dion Dawkins OG Joe DeLamielleure Billy Shaw Ruben Brown Jim Ritcher C Kent Hull Al Bemiller Mitch Morse Eric Wood DE Bruce Smith Aaron Schobel Mario Williams Phil Hansen DT Tom Sestak Kyle Williams Fred Smerlas Mike Kadish LB Darryl Talley Cornelius Bennett Mike Stratton Shane Conlan CB Butch Byrd Booker Edgerson Nate Odomes Nate Clements S George Saimes Micah Hyde Jordan Poyer Tony Greene Love your call on this and the breadth of coverage over the years ... just for fun I wanna throw a couple names out.. no right or wrong here... OG - Take out Brown Insert Reggie McKenzie FB - Take out Gash put in Mueller or Carwell Gardener T - Take out Fina put in Peters CB - Take out Clements put in Romes S - leave the list put in Steve Freeman 47 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: At this point you just leave several spots blank for TE. Warlock is the only guy that is even in the discussion. As for Jeff Wright, he doesn't belong on any list unless if has something to do with mustaches. Will be controversial but Marcell Dareus was a better player than Wright ever was. No idea how he left Pat Williams off the list. I agree here... Jeff Wrights play against the run was about as bad as it could get... yes, he got gap penetration... but I wonder if I could you the OP could get free if you were playing with Bruce Smith and Cornelius Bennett rushing the passer LOL 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Wright started for awhile in a great era but was a weakness in many regards. I found even Sam Adams time here to be more memorable if nothing else for his pick six against Brady. Any list that does not include Ted and Pat as the top two DT's is not a good list IMO. That was a special pairing and one of the more formidable tandems of the era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 If the Bills would have kept Fred Smerlas one more year they would have a Lombardi trophy in their building. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Logic said: Fletcher/Cowart/Milano combined (as Buffalo Bills): one 1st team All-Pro, one 2nd team All Pro, two Pro Bowls Conlan: DROY, three 2nd team All Pros, three Pro Bowls. If Fletcher had played the rest of his career in Buffalo, I'd agree he should make the list. His best statistical years and accolades came as a Redskin. I agree that Conklin should be on over Cowart and Fletcher, but I’d give the nod to Milano. I feel that Milano, at his best an elite player. I thought Conlan was a very good player, but I would never call him great at any point. i think Cowart may have been the best LB the Bills ever had- too bad injuries took him from us. Fletcher- meh- very good LB- seemed to make most of his 150k tackles 5-10 yards downfield. Wouldn’t consider him for the Mt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP51 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 22 minutes ago, Beast said: If the Bills would have kept Fred Smerlas one more year they would have a Lombardi trophy in their building. Interesting thought for sure... even an old Fred was better than Wright as an NT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, Logic said: I'm bored at work and absolutely refuse to get started on my Excel spreadsheets, so I decided to play the "Bills positional Mt Rushmore" game using the criteria cited. No one asked for this, but here it is anyway. Sorry, employer. QB Josh Allen Jim Kelly Jack Kemp Joe Ferguson RB Thurman Thomas OJ Simpson Joe Cribbs Fred Jackson FB Cookie Gilchrist Sam Gash Larry Centers Jim Braxton WR Andre Reed Eric Moulds Elbert Dubenion Stefon Diggs TE Ernie Warlick Pete Metzelaars Keith McKellar Paul Costa OT House Ballard Will Wolford John Fina Dion Dawkins OG Joe DeLamielleure Billy Shaw Ruben Brown Jim Ritcher C Kent Hull Al Bemiller Mitch Morse Eric Wood DE Bruce Smith Aaron Schobel Mario Williams Phil Hansen DT Tom Sestak Kyle Williams Fred Smerlas Mike Kadish LB Darryl Talley Cornelius Bennett Mike Stratton Shane Conlan CB Butch Byrd Booker Edgerson Nate Odomes Nate Clements S George Saimes Micah Hyde Jordan Poyer Tony Greene I never saw George Saimes play. But he is on the wall. And I have heard that he was really really good. I remember Tony Greene. I liked Jeff Nixon too. He was a ball hawk. And what about Leonard Smith? He was an enforcer. At corner, seriously Nate Odomes?? Didn't love his game. I liked Thomas Smith, Terrance McGhee and especially Antoine Winfield better. Nate Clements was real good. (And we should have never let him and Winfield leave) Byrd and Edgerson were before my time as well. But I heard they were real good also. What about Tre White? Don't like the Shane Conlan pick. He was good, but all time good? Was he better then John Holacek? Milano is better than Conlan. Sam Cowart would have been better but for the injury he suffered on the fateful day in 2000 in the rain in Tampa. What about London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes? Bennett and Talley were both special. I don't have time for the rest right now. But it sure is great to think about all the old Bills players and teams. You must have watched those 60's teams a bunch. Were they a really good outfit to watch and root for? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP51 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 19 minutes ago, NewEra said: I agree that Conklin should be on over Cowart and Fletcher, but I’d give the nod to Milano. I feel that Milano, at his best an elite player. I thought Conlan was a very good player, but I would never call him great at any point. i think Cowart may have been the best LB the Bills ever had- too bad injuries took him from us. Fletcher- meh- very good LB- seemed to make most of his 150k tackles 5-10 yards downfield. Wouldn’t consider him for the Mt Couple of other LBs could be considered.... Spikes, Haslett, Sam Rogers, Shane Nelson, Eugene Marve, Spielman, Paup.... lots of good ones over the years. 1 minute ago, Paup 1995MVP said: I never saw George Saimes play. But he is on the wall. And I have heard that he was really really good. I remember Tony Greene. I liked Jeff Nixon too. He was a ball hawk. And what about Leonard Smith? He was an enforcer. At corner, seriously Nate Odomes?? Didn't love his game. I liked Thomas Smith, Terrance McGhee and especially Antoine Winfield better. Nate Clements was real good. (And we should have never let him and Winfield leave) Byrd and Edgerson were before my time as well. But I heard they were real good also. What about Tre White? Don't like the Shane Conlan pick. He was good, but all time good? Was he better then John Holacek? Milano is better than Conlan. Sam Cowart would have been better but for the injury he suffered on the fateful day in 2000 in the rain in Tampa. What about London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes? Bennett and Talley were both special. I don't have time for the rest right now. But it sure is great to think about all the old Bills players and teams. You must have watched those 60's teams a bunch. Were they a really good outfit to watch and root for? We posted literally at the same time lol with some of the same players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 minute ago, JP51 said: Couple of other LBs could be considered.... Spikes, Haslett, Sam Rogers, Shane Nelson, Eugene Marve, Spielman, Paup.... lots of good ones over the years. Nice call on Shane Nelson and Jim Haslett. They were really bad ass players back when playing LB, you needed to be a bad ass. Both were junior Jack Lamberts, for lack of a better reference. And I loved Spielman and Paup. Both special players. Spielman is an all timer, both from college and pro. And he was a riot as an announcer. (And that's coming from a Michigan guy.) And I still wear my #95 Paup jersey for special games. I bought that when I was in Buffalo at the start of the 1996 season. Got in a big fistfight at the Mighty Taco on Transit road late on the night before the Bills-Pats game that weekend. LOL Sam Rogers had some game as well. The 4 LB's we had then (Cowart, Newman, Holocek and Rogers) were a force. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP51 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 27 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said: Nice call on Shane Nelson and Jim Haslett. They were really bad ass players back when playing LB, you needed to be a bad ass. Both were junior Jack Lamberts, for lack of a better reference. And I loved Spielman and Paup. Both special players. Spielman is an all timer, both from college and pro. And he was a riot as an announcer. (And that's coming from a Michigan guy.) And I still wear my #95 Paup jersey for special games. I bought that when I was in Buffalo at the start of the 1996 season. Got in a big fistfight at the Mighty Taco on Transit road late on the night before the Bills-Pats game that weekend. LOL Sam Rogers had some game as well. The 4 LB's we had then (Cowart, Newman, Holocek and Rogers) were a force. They were and then Mark Maddox I believe Cowart Rogers and Maddox called themselves the "Bruise Brothers" LOL... I hesitated on Paup only because today he would be defined as an "Edge Rusher" but back then he was an LB with minimal coverage duties LOL... but he rolled 19 sacks that year still a team record I believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 39 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said: I never saw George Saimes play. But he is on the wall. And I have heard that he was really really good. I remember Tony Greene. I liked Jeff Nixon too. He was a ball hawk. And what about Leonard Smith? He was an enforcer. At corner, seriously Nate Odomes?? Didn't love his game. I liked Thomas Smith, Terrance McGhee and especially Antoine Winfield better. Nate Clements was real good. (And we should have never let him and Winfield leave) Byrd and Edgerson were before my time as well. But I heard they were real good also. What about Tre White? Don't like the Shane Conlan pick. He was good, but all time good? Was he better then John Holacek? Milano is better than Conlan. Sam Cowart would have been better but for the injury he suffered on the fateful day in 2000 in the rain in Tampa. What about London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes? Bennett and Talley were both special. I don't have time for the rest right now. But it sure is great to think about all the old Bills players and teams. You must have watched those 60's teams a bunch. Were they a really good outfit to watch and root for? In truth, I'm too young to have watched guys like Saimes, Joe D, and Billy Shaw. I love digging into the history of Bills greats via books, Youtube clips, game highlights, etc, and I try to educate myself on the history of the franchise and its greatest players to the best of my abilities. But surely those who are old enough to have actually watched the Bills from their inception onward might have different and/or more well informed opinions. I based a lot of my list on professional accolades (All-Pros and Pro Bowls), Hall of Fame and Wall of Fame enshrinements, and career statistics accrued as Buffalo Bills. It explains how a guy like Conlan made my list over a guy like Milano or Cowart. If I was to base my list purely on the eye test and on guys I actually saw play in my lifetime, it would look quite different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP51 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 minute ago, Logic said: In truth, I'm too young to have watched guys like Saimes, Joe D, and Billy Shaw. I love digging into the history of Bills greats via books, Youtube clips, game highlights, etc, and I try to educate myself on the history of the franchise and its greatest players to the best of my abilities. But surely those who are old enough to have actually watched the Bills from their inception onward might have different and/or more well informed opinions. I based a lot of my list on professional accolades (All-Pros and Pro Bowls), Hall of Fame and Wall of Fame enshrinements, and career statistics accrued as Buffalo Bills. It explains how a guy like Conlan made my list over a guy like Milano or Cowart. If I was to base my list purely on the eye test and on guys I actually saw play in my lifetime, it would look quite different. True this... I go back to Joe D and I was young... Never saw Stratton, Byrd, McDole, Warlick ,Kemp, Shaw, Dunaway or Cookie play... I just have the ravings of my father and uncles to rely on... Although I have watched Strattons hit on Lincoln on you tube a million times so I guess I saw him play... one play... LOL... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Beast said: If the Bills would have kept Fred Smerlas one more year they would have a Lombardi trophy in their building. Yep, would have stopped the run in XXV 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amprov56 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 5 hours ago, MJS said: No way does he unseat those 4, not yet at least. I finally agree with MJS 1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said: I never saw George Saimes play. But he is on the wall. And I have heard that he was really really good. I remember Tony Greene. I liked Jeff Nixon too. He was a ball hawk. And what about Leonard Smith? He was an enforcer. At corner, seriously Nate Odomes?? Didn't love his game. I liked Thomas Smith, Terrance McGhee and especially Antoine Winfield better. Nate Clements was real good. (And we should have never let him and Winfield leave) Byrd and Edgerson were before my time as well. But I heard they were real good also. What about Tre White? Don't like the Shane Conlan pick. He was good, but all time good? Was he better then John Holacek? Milano is better than Conlan. Sam Cowart would have been better but for the injury he suffered on the fateful day in 2000 in the rain in Tampa. What about London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes? Bennett and Talley were both special. I don't have time for the rest right now. But it sure is great to think about all the old Bills players and teams. You must have watched those 60's teams a bunch. Were they a really good outfit to watch and root for? Excellent thought provoking post, I did see Saimes play and he was the best FS in the game! 1 hour ago, JP51 said: True this... I go back to Joe D and I was young... Never saw Stratton, Byrd, McDole, Warlick ,Kemp, Shaw, Dunaway or Cookie play... I just have the ravings of my father and uncles to rely on... Although I have watched Strattons hit on Lincoln on you tube a million times so I guess I saw him play... one play... LOL... mine too, seen them all, great players and part of the old school! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amprov56 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 2 hours ago, Beast said: If the Bills would have kept Fred Smerlas one more year they would have a Lombardi trophy in their building. You are absolutely correct, Polian went for speed over size and physical, Smerlas would have made a difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said: I scoffed at the Jeff Wright selection too over big Ted. That's boolsit honestly. I commented on the thread too how he left Bryce Paup off as an honorable mention, but I suppose it's because he only played here for 3 years. The man he 17.5 sacks in 1995. That's nuts. I liked Pryce Paup. But the same year Bruce had 10.5 sacks being double and triple teamed every play. Give 10 of Paup's sacks to Bruce for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 9 hours ago, mushypeaches said: He had Sestak & Smerlas on the list plus Kyle Williams, with McDole, Pat Williams, and Washington as honorable mentions He listed 6 safeties - noting Poyer & Hyde as a pair. Henry Jones was an honorable mention McDole was DE. Jim Dunaway was DT with Sestak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) Seeing as I’m one of the few here who have been watching since 1960 I’ll give it a shot: QB: Kelly, Allen, Kemp, Fergy. RB: OJ, Thurman, Cookie, McCoy (Cribbs very close) FB: Braxton, Gash, Centers, Carleton WR: Reed, Diggs, Moulds, Jerry Butler TE: Warlick, Metzelaars, MacKeller, Kincaid T: Dawkins, Wofford, Stew Barber, Ballard G: Shaw, Joe D, Brown, McKenzie Center: Hull, Wood, Morse, Bemiller DE: Bruce, McDole, Schoebel, Hughes DT: Sestak, Smerlas, K Williams, Washington MLB/ILB: Fletcher, Haslett, Harry Jacobs, Shane Nelson OLB: Milano, Bennett, Stratton, Paup CB: White, Byrd, Egerson, Taron Johnson S: Saimes, Greene, Poyer, Hyde Sure I missed some but these stand out to me. Edited July 11 by oldmanfan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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