You’re on the Committee—Who Would You Have Already Enshrined in the HOF, or Not Voted In?

[JP51]

22 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

People are going to flame me for this one, but a guy I would consider removing is Marv Levy.  Losing 4 in a row is not necessarily HOF worthy 

I said the same thing. I think he was a very good coach, but was badly out coached in the SB. I think a number of other coaches would have won at least one. He was an overseer to me of his coaching staff and outside of Marchibroda who was an innovator had a very poor staff. In fact I dont think even 1 of his other coaches during the superbowl years even got another job outside the organization at the same level after they left let alone a promotion. Usually, Assistants and Co Ordinators of Super Bowl teams are pirated with regularity. This was very telling to me. Certainly not a bad coach, in fact a very good one who was blessed with an extra ordinary team with 5 Hall of fame players and 3 others that need to be considered ( Hull, Bennett, Tasker) ... Very good coach...  Hall of Fame... not to me. 

Edited July 12 by JP51

[strive_for_five_guy]

8 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

Players who don't belong in the Hall of Fame

 

Cornelius Bennett.  In his four best years for sacks, he had between 7 and 9.5 sacks per season. In the remaining ten years, he never had more than 5.5 sacks in a season.

Troy Aikman. He played behind one of the two best OLs in NFL history. He had one of the greatest WRs ever in the form of Michael Irvin. A Pro Bowl TE. A very good RB in Emmitt Smith. With all those advantages, you want to see a guy average more than 7.0 yards per attempt.

 

Players who do belong in the Hall of Fame

Kurt Warner, QB. At the time, his three Super Bowl appearances were the three highest passing yardage totals in Super Bowl history. (A record since broken by Tom Brady.) He unequivocally deserved to be a first ballot Hall of Fame player.

Steve Tasker, special teams. For reasons already discussed.

I agree on Cornelius Bennett.  I also don’t think Chris Kelsay should be in the HOF either.

[DrBob806]

14 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Jerome Bettis, get your fat ass out of here!

...and Kevin Greene

[Fleezoid]

Is Troy Aikman in the Hall of Fame? I don't remember anybody saying "Here is Hall of Fame Quarterback Troy Aikman."

[Rampant Buffalo]

12 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

Is Troy Aikman in the Hall of Fame? I don't remember anybody saying "Here is Hall of Fame Quarterback Troy Aikman."

 

Yes he is. See this link, yellow highlighted text in right column.

[Gregg]

I wonder if Eli Manning will get in the HOF. He did help the Giants beat the evil empire twice on the biggest stage. Winning two championships will help him. Overall, he was a very good QB. But he is definitely not a lock for it like Peyton was.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

I wonder if Eli Manning will get in the HOF. He did help the Giants beat the evil empire twice on the biggest stage. Winning two championships will help him. Overall, he was a very good QB. But he is definitely not a lock for it like Peyton was.

I feel the same way—obviously always be grateful he smacked TB12 x2 (although the Giants D line no small factor in that), and his playoff runs were where he stepped up.  But by and large I feel like his career was overall pretty meh outside of those 2 memorable years? 

[Simon]

18 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

Players who don't belong in the Hall of Fame

 

Cornelius Bennett.  In his four best years for sacks, he had between 7 and 9.5 sacks per season. In the remaining ten years, he never had more than 5.5 sacks in a season.

 

Judging Biscuit solely on sacks is an extraordinary disservice to him; that dude was all over the football field.

There were Sundays where I was convinced there were three guys wearing Bennet jerseys out there.

[FireChans]

8 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

Is Troy Aikman in the Hall of Fame? I don't remember anybody saying "Here is Hall of Fame Quarterback Troy Aikman."

 

8 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

Yes he is. See this link, yellow highlighted text in right column.

Aikdaddy was sneaky elite in the postseason. 
 

3 runs in the postseason with a >100 passer rating, all with SB’s, including a year with an 8-0 TD/INT ratio. 
 

Joe Flacco took notes.

Edited July 13 by FireChans

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:29 AM, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Is there anyone who’s donned a Hall of Fame gold jacket that in your opinion is less deserving than another candidate who’s still not been voted in? 

 

For example, how did Andre Johnson deserve it more than say, Reggie Wayne, who won a SB and has better overall stats? (14,185 yds, 70 TDs vs 14,345 yds, 82 TDs). 

 

If you had the power to remove one sitting HOF player, who? Likewise who would you have already enshrined?
 

 

Reggie Wayne had Peyton for most of his career. Andre Johnson had a bunch of bums besides those 3-4 good years Matt Schaub put together. AJ in his prime was a freak and the only guy better from his era was Calvin Johnson. Reggie Wayne was very good in his own right, but not nearly as talented. 

[RiotAct]

9 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

Is Troy Aikman in the Hall of Fame? I don't remember anybody saying "Here is Hall of Fame Quarterback Troy Aikman."

haha yeah I can’t think of a single play-by-play announcer who introduces him as such!  🤔😂

[Rampant Buffalo]

17 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Judging Biscuit solely on sacks is an extraordinary disservice to him; that dude was all over the football field.

There were Sundays where I was convinced there were three guys wearing Bennet jerseys out there.

 

You make a good point. There's more to a LB's career than just his sack numbers.

 

On the other hand, the Hall of Fame is supposed to be for those players who were truly elite. It's not the Hall of the Very Good.

 

Let's say we're looking at total tackles. Cornelius Bennett had 1190 total tackles over the course of 206 games, for an average of 5.8 tackles per game. Chris Spielman, who isn't in the Hall of Fame, had 1363 total tackles over 148 games, for 9.2 tackles per game. I just don't think the numbers are there, to justify putting Cornelius Bennett in the Hall.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:48 PM, Gregg said:

I wonder if Eli Manning will get in the HOF. He did help the Giants beat the evil empire twice on the biggest stage. Winning two championships will help him. Overall, he was a very good QB. But he is definitely not a lock for it like Peyton was.

He will get in. Two time SB winner. He's a virtual lock with how they are voting lately.

He's on my list of guys that shouldn't make it however. He was mediocre for many years but made some great plays in the biggest moments. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:06 PM, MJS said:

I'd remove Bob Hayes, WR. Seems like he was a good player, but not hall of fame worthy.

 

Also Lynn Swann, WR. He was another good WR who got in because he was a Steeler. Not hall of fame caliber to me.

 

Also Terrell Davis, RB. He was amazing for a few years, but didn't have the longevity I think is necessary to make the hall of fame. He ranks 58th in career rushing yards and 54th in TD's.

 

Players who should be in: Steve Tasker, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne.

 

That's always the tough part IMO.

 

Longevity for the sake of longevity shouldn't get you in.  You should need to be among the best at your position for some stretch of a long career.  But how many games... should you need?

 

Davis won an MVP and 2 OPOYs, a super bowl MVP, cracked 2000 yards in a season, and has 1140 yards and 12 TDs across 8 playoff games (6th all time, in half as many games as each of the 5 ahead of him).  It's basically all over a 4 year period though which feels too short.  

[Bill from NYC]

On 7/11/2024 at 10:50 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

As you know I'm not a fan of special teams but to deny that they have an impact on the game is nonsense as well. 

The HOF is as much about the players as it is the history of the game.

It's hard to near impossible to talk about the evolution of the NFL without talking about how the original special teams expert changed the game. So in that context I would vote Tasker in.  If you are just going off of talent alone however then I would not vote Tasker in.

 

For those that should be in on talent:

Jim Marshall

Clay Matthews

Reggie Wayne

Otis Taylor

Sterlin Sharpe

 

I would also vote Dick LeBeau in again as a coach. He already is in as a player. 

 

I can't think of any other coach. They finally got Flores and Coryell inducted.

 

 

For those I would remove, there are several. There are so many guys that are in the good to great category but are not truly elite. As of late it seems much more watered down. All of the following would be removed and I would be fine with it

 

Steve McMichael

Patrick Willis

Rhonde Barber

Zach Thomas

LeRoy Butler

John Lynch

Brian Dawkins

Kurt Warner

Marv Levy

Lynn Swann

 

 

Great post! Another WR who had the talent but lacks the stats was Isaac Curtis. They had to change a rule for players to cover him. Curtis ran a 9.3 40 and had great hands. Injuries, the era he played in, and his team (Bengals) did not help his chances.

 

The fact that Otis Taylor has never been voted in is a disgrace imo.

[Mikie2times]

On 7/12/2024 at 9:11 AM, JP51 said:

I said the same thing. I think he was a very good coach, but was badly out coached in the SB. I think a number of other coaches would have won at least one. He was an overseer to me of his coaching staff and outside of Marchibroda who was an innovator had a very poor staff. In fact I dont think even 1 of his other coaches during the superbowl years even got another job outside the organization at the same level after they left let alone a promotion. Usually, Assistants and Co Ordinators of Super Bowl teams are pirated with regularity. This was very telling to me. Certainly not a bad coach, in fact a very good one who was blessed with an extra ordinary team with 5 Hall of fame players and 3 others that need to be considered ( Hull, Bennett, Tasker) ... Very good coach...  Hall of Fame... not to me. 

Everything you said is true. But he went to 4 straight which won't happen again. It takes a certain skill to keep a team in a mindset to get to 4 straight. Not the same skill it takes to win one. It's both an awful failure and incredible accomplishment.  

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

That's always the tough part IMO.

 

Longevity for the sake of longevity shouldn't get you in.  You should need to be among the best at your position for some stretch of a long career.  But how many games... should you need?

 

Davis won an MVP and 2 OPOYs, a super bowl MVP, cracked 2000 yards in a season, and has 1140 yards and 12 TDs across 8 playoff games (6th all time, in half as many games as each of the 5 ahead of him).  It's basically all over a 4 year period though which feels too short.  

Yep, you should need both, I think. You need to be among the best during your era and do it for a long time.

 

The one I struggle with is Frank Gore. He has the longevity, but I never felt like he was elite. He made the pro bowl 5 times, though. I kind of hope a guy like him does not make the hall of fame, even though he has the career production, which is commendable. But, I almost feel like he is a guarantee to get in.

[Rampant Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Great post! Another WR who had the talent but lacks the stats was Isaac Curtis. They had to change a rule for players to cover him. Curtis ran a 9.3 40 and had great hands. Injuries, the era he played in, and his team (Bengals) did not help his chances.

 

The fact that Otis Taylor has never been voted in is a disgrace imo.

 

I think you might be confusing him with Keon Coleman! 😮

[JP51]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Everything you said is true. But he went to 4 straight which won't happen again. It takes a certain skill to keep a team in a mindset to get to 4 straight. Not the same skill it takes to win one. It's both an awful failure and incredible accomplishment.  

agreed and like me if you went thru it and went to your first Super Bowl game because of it it was an amazing time. I have debated this one for years with friends and family... we have yet to all come to consensus LOL... probably never will.. one more thing... Marv was a great guy in person just a wonderful and engaging man would see him all the time at McKenzie's in Hamburg.  But alas.. I fall on the very good not epic side of the opinion. 

Edited July 15 by JP51

[Mikie2times]

16 minutes ago, JP51 said:

agreed and like me if you went thru it and went to your first Super Bowl game because of it it was an amazing time. I have debated this one for years with friends and family... we have yet to all come to consensus LOL... probably never will.. one more thing... Marv was a great guy in person just a wonderful and engaging man would see him all the time at McKenzie's in Hamburg.  But alas.. I fall on the very good not epic side of the opinion. 

I was young fan at the time but old enough to cry my ass off. I can't help but takeaway how desperate we are to just get to one again. To me it adds even more weight to what they did. But agree 100%, especially regarding the coordinators. Marchibroda did some things post Buffalo, but I remember Walt Corey as a liability and after Marchibroda we never really had a contributor at OC. Marv was just outclassed as a tactician. Exceptional leader and great and keeping the ship steady but he wasn't an X's and O's guy. While very different people I see McD and Marv as being fairly similar in strengths and limitations.