Big Turk Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said: What a strange list and contradicted by the heading "when playing 70+ games." Why do they mention 70+ games at the same time including players with less than 500 career passing attempts? What exactly is the criteria? Among other things it makes me wonder if this is a human or a non-human error. I put in 70+ games because it included a bunch of others in there that had few attempts just because they were in the league for a while but didn't play much. 500 completions takes out players like Hill who played QB for like half a season but gets credited for all the wins Brees has, and a few others in the same boat. Essentially, it would be no different than accounting for "Qualifying Leaders" like the NFL does, except the requirements are far more lax than they actually would be if it was an official list. Would have just used 500 completions but couldn't get it to recognize that no matter how I asked it. So I just used 70+ games which filtered most of them out, leaving only a few stragglers. Edited July 10 by Big Turk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: Hmm...StatMuse has him 3rd behind Mahomes... Allen is in pretty great company...if you take out QBs with under 500 pass completions, which seems like a pretty low bar for an actual QB who played a good amount of games, he ranks 12th all time. Ahead of Montana, Stabler, Rodgers and Roethlesberger. Although the fact Jimmy Garrapolo, Jim McMahon and Steve Bono are ahead of him shows this isn't the be all end all list for how good a QB really is. Here's the top three from Wikipedia... Something is wrong with StatMuse. It says Lamonica played 137 games. Pro Football Referense says he started only 88 games. Maybe StatMuse is counting the losses with the Bills where the Snake sat helplessly on the bench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 10 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Here's the top three from Wikipedia... Something is wrong with StatMuse. It says Lamonica played 137 games. Pro Football Referense says he started only 88 games. Maybe StatMuse is counting the losses with the Bills where the Snake sat helplessly on the bench? I think it just uses games he was active for which is how the NFL officially counts games played Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Irrelevant is an interesting term. Jim Brown is on the very short list of best player of all time. Ozzie Newsome is on the list of best TEs of all time. Probably still top 5 in talent. He would be a superstar in this era. Can't tell the story of the NFL in the 80's without The Drive and The Fumble. Relevant yes. Winning not so much. I agree with all of this. To clarify, I meant 'relevant' in terms of championship conversations. The Browns haven't been a championship contender much since the 1950s, and never again a champion. But if I had to pick the GOAT, it wouldn't be Brady. It would be between Jim Brown and OJ. Both were RBs back when offenses revolved around the RB and the best athletes became backs. And they were both heads and shoulders better than their peers. If I took off my Bills cap, the pick would be Brown. Brady was a great QB. But how much was he better than his peers: Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Farve, Roethlisberger, Warner, Luck, Stafford, Rivers, and so on? At the end of any regular season, you could make a strong argument that Brady wasn't the best QB that given year. Brown was the best RB every year he suited up and everyone knew it and there was no rational debate about it. Brady led the league in passing yards 4 times in his 23-year career. Impressive. Brown led the league in rushing yards 8 times in his 9-year career. The one year he didn't, he was hurt. Brown was relevant. The Browns were not (at least not how I use the term). 15 minutes ago, Big Turk said: I think it just uses games he was active for which is how the NFL officially counts games played That makes sense. Though if I was calculating win percentage for a QB, I'd only count games started. In any case, Lamonica was a winner - and it would have been better if he had won all those games for us. The problem, of course, is that we didn't have the supporting cast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Wish him all the best—Bernie was always a gamer and fun to watch—especially given his “unique” sidearm throwing technique that the football know it alls were baffled by…hope he can still recover! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 11 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: I agree with all of this. To clarify, I meant 'relevant' in terms of championship conversations. The Browns haven't been a championship contender much since the 1950s, and never again a champion. But if I had to pick the GOAT, it wouldn't be Brady. It would be between Jim Brown and OJ. Both were RBs back when offenses revolved around the RB and the best athletes became backs. And they were both heads and shoulders better than their peers. If I took off my Bills cap, the pick would be Brown. Brady was a great QB. But how much was he better than his peers: Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Farve, Roethlisberger, Warner, Luck, Stafford, Rivers, and so on? At the end of any regular season, you could make a strong argument that Brady wasn't the best QB that given year. Brown was the best RB every year he suited up and everyone knew it and there was no rational debate about it. Brady led the league in passing yards 4 times in his 23-year career. Impressive. Brown led the league in rushing yards 8 times in his 9-year career. The one year he didn't, he was hurt. Brown was relevant. The Browns were not (at least not how I use the term). That makes sense. Though if I was calculating win percentage for a QB, I'd only count games started. In any case, Lamonica was a winner - and it would have been better if he had won all those games for us. The problem, of course, is that we didn't have the supporting cast. Yeah I hear ya. I have Rice #1 Brady #2 Montana #3 and LT #4. I agree you could make an argument for Brown as the GOAT. You are correct about the Browns. One of only a very few franchises with no SuperBowl appearances let alone wins. Lol and the Titans don't count for the Oilers. Their QB history since they came back in the league is actually worse than the Bills during the drought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amprov56 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 On 7/9/2024 at 1:08 PM, RoyBatty is alive said: Wow. He made one Pro Bowl, he lost more than he won, never throw for over 4,000 yards (granted a different era). Mediocre starting QB on mostly dismal teams. Do you ever post anything positive? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I've only lived in Cleveland for under two years but the number of people saying he is a raging alcoholic is overwhelming. The Browns organization wants nothing to do with him. Local radio almost never have him on. Even the QCKinetics scam advertisers stopped using him. It's sad but moslty self inflicted. Maybe he drank because of CTE and pain or maybe he was just an alcoholic. Parkinson's is usually a progressive horrible disease. Early stages it would be hard to distinguish from liver failure. Both can produce tremors. If he truly had Parkinsons that might make him ineligible for liver Transplant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amprov56 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 29 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: I've only lived in Cleveland for under two years but the number of people saying he is a raging alcoholic is overwhelming. The Browns organization wants nothing to do with him. Local radio almost never have him on. Even the QCKinetics scam advertisers stopped using him. It's sad but moslty self inflicted. Maybe he drank because of CTE and pain or maybe he was just an alcoholic. Parkinson's is usually a progressive horrible disease. Early stages it would be hard to distinguish from liver failure. Both can produce tremors. If he truly had Parkinsons that might make him ineligible for liver Transplant. Let's kick him while he is down, that says quite a bit about the Browns organization and some on TBD! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 4 hours ago, Big Turk said: I put in 70+ games because it included a bunch of others in there that had few attempts just because they were in the league for a while but didn't play much. 500 completions takes out players like Hill who played QB for like half a season but gets credited for all the wins Brees has, and a few others in the same boat. Essentially, it would be no different than accounting for "Qualifying Leaders" like the NFL does, except the requirements are far more lax than they actually would be if it was an official list. Would have just used 500 completions but couldn't get it to recognize that no matter how I asked it. So I just used 70+ games which filtered most of them out, leaving only a few stragglers. BT, I misconstrued and misinterpreted your entire post. Apologies. Did you generate a report in Statmuse? I'm still a bit confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrivefourfive Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Yeah, sucks. Hate to hear this to one of “my guys” from the 80s. Cool, unique player, at quarterback, on a very dramatic Browns team. Back then the AFC was Double A Ball so I appreciated the AFC players a little more, being more familiar with their struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBob806 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: I've only lived in Cleveland for under two years but the number of people saying he is a raging alcoholic is overwhelming. The Browns organization wants nothing to do with him. Local radio almost never have him on. Even the QCKinetics scam advertisers stopped using him. It's sad but moslty self inflicted. Maybe he drank because of CTE and pain or maybe he was just an alcoholic. Parkinson's is usually a progressive horrible disease. Early stages it would be hard to distinguish from liver failure. Both can produce tremors. If he truly had Parkinsons that might make him ineligible for liver Transplant. Uh you're wrong on some points here. I also live in Cleveland and he's on WKNR (sports talk radio)via a phone call Monday through Friday during football season on the morning shift, analyzing Browns football. He remains one of the most beloved players in Browns history. The organization did fire him from preseason announcing several years ago. I'm sure he has demons, mainly drinking. You'd drink a lot too if your owner kicked you to the curb and moved your team somewhere else. Then, when the Browns came back into the league, the new ownership group used him as a selling point and dropped him like a hot potato after getting the bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said: BT, I misconstrued and misinterpreted your entire post. Apologies. Did you generate a report in Statmuse? I'm still a bit confused. Yes I generated it in statmuse, but the only thing I could get it to recognize was games played. There were a bunch of outliers with under 70 games played so that's why I set it at that. Couldn't get it to recognize pass completions which would have gotten rid of the others and was the one I actually wanted to use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/10/2024 at 3:07 PM, amprov56 said: Do you ever post anything positive? yes i have and why are you so concerned about what i post, bothers you so much put me on ignore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/9/2024 at 10:05 AM, Big Turk said: Sucks he is going thru it, hopefully things work out... https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-browns-qb-bernie-kosar-140703429.html Not a doctor, but I'll put an infinite amount of money on it not "working out". Anyone want some action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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