chongli Posted July 9 Posted July 9 (edited) On 7/9/2024 at 8:52 AM, May Day 10 said: Classic 80s player Those Browns teams were pretty decent. Webster Slaughter, Ozzie Newsome, Reggie Langhorne with Kosar throwing in old Cleveland Municipal. Don't forget Ernest Byner and Kevin Mack, great running backs with a lot of catches too. ! I hated them. [BTW, their stadium, in addition to being called the Dawg Pound, was referred to in an NBC ad as the "Slaughter House", and for good reason. Many teams met their demise there, including Buffalo.] Anyway, horrible, horrible news for Bernie. He was a fellow alumnus of "The U", along with Jim. 🙏🏻 Edited July 11 by chongli 1 Quote
hondo in seattle Posted July 9 Posted July 9 I was both a Browns and Bernie fan back in the day. Hated Belichick for cutting him. Wish Kosar the best. Quote
RoyBatty is alive Posted July 9 Posted July 9 (edited) 4 hours ago, DrBob806 said: Usually when a team makes 3 AFC Title games, they're not dismal. If you want to think Bernie Kosar was some great QB that is up to. He had ONE great year and the rest were sunk in mediocrity or less but that is my opinion. Hoping for the best. Edited July 9 by RoyBatty is alive Quote
hondo in seattle Posted July 9 Posted July 9 7 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Hate it for him. A good QB and your name is Bernie...that's awesome. He's got to be the Browns best QB ever right? The best has to be Otto Graham, no? If I'm not mistaken, he's the only Browns QB in the HOF. Winningest QBs in NFL history: Graham... .814 Lamonica... .801 Mahomes... .771 Brady... .754 Jackson... .753 The Browns are kind of like the Bills - a bunch of great RBs but not many great QBs. But Bernie had his moments. 1 Quote
RoyBatty is alive Posted July 9 Posted July 9 9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: The best has to be Otto Graham, no? If I'm not mistaken, he's the only Browns QB in the HOF. Winningest QBs in NFL history: Graham... .814 Lamonica... .801 Mahomes... .771 Brady... .754 Jackson... .753 The Browns are kind of like the Bills - a bunch of great RBs but not many great QBs. But Bernie had his moments. Otto Graham, for his era, was easily one of the greatest QBs of all time, no debate about that. 2 Quote
billsfan714 Posted July 10 Posted July 10 (edited) Bernie got a lot out of a career with some really limited physical attributes. Edited July 10 by billsfan714 Quote
Sierra Foothills Posted July 10 Posted July 10 12 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: He's got to be the Browns best QB ever right? 5 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: The best has to be Otto Graham, no? If I'm not mistaken, he's the only Browns QB in the HOF. 5 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Otto Graham, for his era, was easily one of the greatest QBs of all time, no debate about that. Yes, Otto Graham by a mile or two. No one else really close. Was Bernie better than Brian Sipe? If so not by very much. Quote
EasternOHBillsFan Posted July 10 Posted July 10 19 hours ago, Nephilim17 said: Yes, there are other possible causes but cirrhosis of the liver is often caused by heavy drinking. As Bills fans know, players from that era liked to party. I liked him too. Hope he does the best he can. I have the opposite problem... I never knew there was such a thing as a fatty liver. I rarely drink... 1 Quote
Big Turk Posted July 10 Author Posted July 10 (edited) 13 hours ago, chongli said: Don't forget Ernest Byner and Kevin Mack, great running backs with a lot of catches too. ! I hated them. Their stadium, in addition to being called the Dawg Pound, was referred to in an NBC ad as the "Slaughter House", and for good reason. Many teams met their demise there, including Buffalo. Anyway, horrible, horrible news for Bernie. He was a fellow alumnus of "The U", along with Jim. 🙏🏻 And Eric Metcalf who I believe returned 2 kicks in our playoff games for TDs against us(I know he had at least 1)...he was electric as a scat back/receiving back and kick/punt returner Edited July 10 by Big Turk 1 Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted July 10 Posted July 10 14 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: The best has to be Otto Graham, no? If I'm not mistaken, he's the only Browns QB in the HOF. Winningest QBs in NFL history: Graham... .814 Lamonica... .801 Mahomes... .771 Brady... .754 Jackson... .753 The Browns are kind of like the Bills - a bunch of great RBs but not many great QBs. But Bernie had his moments. I'll be honest, I knew who Otto Graham was but didn't know he was a Brown. Quote
chris heff Posted July 10 Posted July 10 15 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Otto Graham, for his era, was easily one of the greatest QBs of all time, no debate about that. And for most of his career he wore number 60. 1 Quote
hondo in seattle Posted July 10 Posted July 10 10 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said: Yes, Otto Graham by a mile or two. No one else really close. Was Bernie better than Brian Sipe? If so not by very much. Weirdly, Sipe has attained something Josh hasn't: an MVP award. Sipe was fun to watch during the short-lived Kardiac Kids era. With Sipe and their playmakers, the Browns were never out of a game. Eleven 4th quarter (or OT) game-winning drives in two years. 1 Quote
hondo in seattle Posted July 10 Posted July 10 2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I'll be honest, I knew who Otto Graham was but didn't know he was a Brown. I'm old but not old enough to remember him playing. But when I was a Browns fan, I read up on Browns history. With Otto Graham as their on-field captain, the Browns dominated the old All-American Football Conference (AAFC) in the late 1940s and won the championship all four years of the AAFC's tenure. Cleveland's run included the 1948 championship game when the Browns destroyed an earlier version of the Buffalo Bills by a score of 49-7. Their critics complained that the Browns were the best team in an inferior league and would crumble against NFL competition. Well, about that... the Browns joined the NFL in 1950, won the championship that year, and Graham was named the league's MVP. The Browns earned the right to play in the NFL Championship game 6 consecutive years after joining the NFL, winning 3 of them. They've had a bit of success in the 1960's with Jim Brown, in the 70's with the Kardiac Kids, in the 80's with Bernie... but have mostly been irrelevant since Otto's days. 1 1 Quote
Big Turk Posted July 10 Author Posted July 10 16 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: The best has to be Otto Graham, no? If I'm not mistaken, he's the only Browns QB in the HOF. Winningest QBs in NFL history: Graham... .814 Lamonica... .801 Mahomes... .771 Brady... .754 Jackson... .753 The Browns are kind of like the Bills - a bunch of great RBs but not many great QBs. But Bernie had his moments. The "Mad Bomber" is 2nd?? Holy cow...I had no idea. 1 Quote
hondo in seattle Posted July 10 Posted July 10 1 minute ago, Big Turk said: The "Mad Bomber" is 2nd?? Holy cow...I had no idea. Neither did I until I looked up the list. What sucks about the list is that two of the winningest QBs in history are guys who have haunted the Bills: Brady and Mahomes. The Bills mafia would be a much happier place if those two had been in the NFC. And we had one of the winningest QBs in history on our roster but hardly played him before we traded him a way for Art Powell and a bag of peanuts. 1 Quote
Big Turk Posted July 10 Author Posted July 10 (edited) 5 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Neither did I until I looked up the list. What sucks about the list is that two of the winningest QBs in history are guys who have haunted the Bills: Brady and Mahomes. The Bills mafia would be a much happier place if those two had been in the NFC. And we had one of the winningest QBs in history on our roster but hardly played him before we traded him a way for Art Powell and a bag of peanuts. Hmm...StatMuse has him 3rd behind Mahomes... Allen is in pretty great company...if you take out QBs with under 500 pass completions, which seems like a pretty low bar for an actual QB who played a good amount of games, he ranks 12th all time. Ahead of Montana, Stabler, Rodgers and Roethlesberger. Although the fact Jimmy Garrapolo, Jim McMahon and Steve Bono are ahead of him shows this isn't the be all end all list for how good a QB really is. Edited July 10 by Big Turk 2 Quote
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 10 Posted July 10 22 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: I'm old but not old enough to remember him playing. But when I was a Browns fan, I read up on Browns history. With Otto Graham as their on-field captain, the Browns dominated the old All-American Football Conference (AAFC) in the late 1940s and won the championship all four years of the AAFC's tenure. Cleveland's run included the 1948 championship game when the Browns destroyed an earlier version of the Buffalo Bills by a score of 49-7. Their critics complained that the Browns were the best team in an inferior league and would crumble against NFL competition. Well, about that... the Browns joined the NFL in 1950, won the championship that year, and Graham was named the league's MVP. The Browns earned the right to play in the NFL Championship game 6 consecutive years after joining the NFL, winning 3 of them. They've had a bit of success in the 1960's with Jim Brown, in the 70's with the Kardiac Kids, in the 80's with Bernie... but have mostly been irrelevant since Otto's days. Irrelevant is an interesting term. Jim Brown is on the very short list of best player of all time. Ozzie Newsome is on the list of best TEs of all time. Probably still top 5 in talent. He would be a superstar in this era. Can't tell the story of the NFL in the 80's without The Drive and The Fumble. Relevant yes. Winning not so much. Quote
Sierra Foothills Posted July 10 Posted July 10 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: Hmm...StatMuse has him 3rd behind Mahomes... Allen is in pretty great company...if you take out QBs with under 500 pass completions, which seems like a pretty low bar for an actual QB who played a good amount of games, he ranks 12th all time. Ahead of Montana, Stabler, Rodgers and Roethlesberger. Although the fact Jimmy Garrapolo, Jim McMahon and Steve Bono are ahead of him shows this isn't the be all end all list for how good a QB really is. What a strange list and contradicted by the heading "when playing 70+ games." Why do they mention 70+ games at the same time including players with less than 500 career passing attempts? What exactly is the criteria? Among other things it makes me wonder if this is a human or a non-human error. Quote
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